Page 1 of 1

Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace all

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 am
by rsw748
We've WHITE kitchen appliances that are 11 years old. Recently the dish washer is broken. We ultimately like to go for stainless.
We also would like to replace the countertop microwave oven with the over the range microwave oven.
No issues with Refrigerator and the electric range. If gas range is economic, we also would like to replace the electric range with gas range.

What would bogleheads suggest.

1) Should I replace all four since latest appliances are more energy efficient?
2) Just replace the broken white dish washer with the stainless steel dish washer and when the others are broken replace with stainless steel?
3) Is gas range economical than electric? Not sure if gas connection already exists, can we expect gas connection behind the range in 11 year old house?
If there is no existing gas connection I will just stay with electric.
4) What is economical and reliable brand for appliances?
5) Which store is best to buy from?

Thanks so much in advance.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:40 am
by spotty_dog
How about repairing the dishwasher? My 12-year-old machine recently started squealing and screaming every time it was run. We google-diagnosed a dying pump motor, and the internet implied that we had just a few days or weeks until it ceased working completely. Replacing the pump motor turned out to cost about $160 and a little labor with help from Youtube. We are not particularly handy people, but my husband is stubborn and I am patient, and now our dishwasher runs like new. :)

It sounds like you really want the new appliance though. The only dishwasher brand I've ever heard recommended without hesitation is Bosch. I would not do the whole kitchen at once just to get stainless. Make the needful replacement, then do some research about what you need/want/can afford and lay out a budget determining which appliances to replace as part of a comprehensive kitchen overhaul, make sure you know what other discretionary purchases you're pushing off in order to make room in the budget for this one. Don't tap your emergency fund, as "must get stainless" is not an emergency.

Just like you wouldn't make a sudden asset allocation change without having good reasoning down in your IPS, I wouldn't make a major household purchase without being able to make a good unemotional argument in favor of it.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:44 am
by Grandpaboys
How much money do you want to spend?

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:22 am
by obgraham
There are times in life where you just want new stuff.

Not everything requires in in depth feasibility study. If you have the money, replace the lot.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:39 am
by rsw748
It sounds like you really want the new appliance though. The only dishwasher brand I've ever heard recommended without hesitation is Bosch. I would not do the whole kitchen at once just to get stainless. Make the needful replacement, then do some research about what you need/want/can afford and lay out a budget determining which appliances to replace as part of a comprehensive kitchen overhaul, make sure you know what other discretionary purchases you're pushing off in order to make room in the budget for this one. Don't tap your emergency fund, as "must get stainless" is not an emergency.
No, If I get recommendation to replace all, then only I'll replace all with stainless steel.
How much money do you want to spend?
$3000 to $3500

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:43 am
by Easy Rhino
it would probably take you a looong time to recoup the savings of a new fridge via the saved energy costs.

A new range might not save you any more energy at all.

If there are lots of other gas appliances in your house (furnace, dryer) then you may have a gas hookup in your kitchen too.

I would probably just replace the broken dishwasher. My wife would probably replace all the appliances. and the cabinets and counters, too.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:47 am
by BrandonBogle
I did number 2 so far. The refrigerator was older than I am and looked hideous. I didn't care if it worked or not. Got a great deal on a Maytag SS at Home Depot 2.5 years ago ad love it. Six months later, my toaster oven needed replacing (came with me from previous moves). For a simple SS one for cheap at Walmart. Dishwasher handle broke a few months ago, but changed that $25 part (from Amazon) myself. I also want to put an over range microwave in, but not until my countertop from 1993 stops working. Stove and dishwasher will presumable stay white forever since I don't imagine these ever really needing to be replaced all that often. But if the do go some day, I'll get SS then.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:52 am
by rsw748
My wife would probably replace all the appliances. and the cabinets and counters, too.
:happy

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:57 am
by Kosmo
rsw748 wrote: 1) Should I replace all four since latest appliances are more energy efficient? Depends on how much money you'll save on reduced electric bills, you'd have to do the math to figure out the "break even" time to own the new appliances. Since your appliances aren't that old, I'd say only replace what's broken.
2) Just replace the broken white dish washer with the stainless steel dish washer and when the others are broken replace with stainless steel? Yes.
3) Is gas range economical than electric? Usually. But it depends on the area of the country you're in. Not sure if gas connection already exists, can we expect gas connection behind the range in 11 year old house? No. You can easily pull the range out and look. Does the house have a gas connection for heating? If yes, you can tap into that supply line (I did this, it cost about $400 in parts and 2 days work doing it myself with some help). If not, you'd have to have the gas company come and run a line to the house. That can get very expensive.
If there is no existing gas connection I will just stay with electric.
4) What is economical and reliable brand for appliances? I just got all new appliances. For the dishwasher we went with Bosch. Extremely quiet, but it doesn't have a "dry" cycle, so you have to let the dishes air dry after it runs. For other appliances we went with Kenmore (Sears brand), but they were actually built by LG.
5) Which store is best to buy from? I used Sears. Most places will do price matching, so that's almost a moot point. Go with the place you think/know will have the best customer service in case something goes awry.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:13 pm
by spotty_dog
rsw748 wrote:
It sounds like you really want the new appliance though. The only dishwasher brand I've ever heard recommended without hesitation is Bosch. I would not do the whole kitchen at once just to get stainless. Make the needful replacement, then do some research about what you need/want/can afford and lay out a budget determining which appliances to replace as part of a comprehensive kitchen overhaul, make sure you know what other discretionary purchases you're pushing off in order to make room in the budget for this one. Don't tap your emergency fund, as "must get stainless" is not an emergency.
No, If I get recommendation to replace all, then only I'll replace all with stainless steel.
Yes, I understand that. But almost every new manufacture kitchen appliance will come with a stainless finish option. My point is that the apparent failure of one kitchen appliance has not suddenly made this situation urgent. If you did not buy a refrigerator last week, even though your current one is not stainless, then you do not *need* to buy a refrigerator this week, even though your current one is STILL not stainless. Take your time. Make each purchase an informed decision. I promise you that if you have mismatched kitchen appliances for a few weeks or months, it will not harm you or the appliances. And you might well save hundreds or even thousands over the lifetimes of the appliances if you choose reliable and efficient models and shop around for a good deal, vs. making a snap decision based on what is cheap and/or available and ready to go in stainless.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:58 pm
by Mingus
I understand that white appliances can be perceived as boring.

What I don't understand is the appeal of stainless steel appliances. They are cold looking, dark, and unless things have changed they mar up with fingerprints.

I always thought kitchens were suppose to be warm inviting places. Stainless steel is the opposite of that.

Appliance colors in the 60s and 70s were horrible, looking back, but apparently olive green, harvest yellow, and almond were all the rage. Some of the 1950s appliance colors were okay...

One day in the future, we will collectively look back and be aghast with the stainless steel appliance rage.

I'm sticking with white.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:23 pm
by frugaltype
spotty_dog wrote:
rsw748 wrote: My point is that the apparent failure of one kitchen appliance has not suddenly made this situation urgent. If you did not buy a refrigerator last week, even though your current one is not stainless, then you do not *need* to buy a refrigerator this week, even though your current one is STILL not stainless. Take your time. Make each purchase an informed decision. I promise you that if you have mismatched kitchen appliances for a few weeks or months, it will not harm you or the appliances. And you might well save hundreds or even thousands over the lifetimes of the appliances if you choose reliable and efficient models and shop around for a good deal, vs. making a snap decision based on what is cheap and/or available and ready to go in stainless.
+1

People who actually cook prefer gas stoves over electric because of the infinite control. Also, in a prolonged power failure, you can still cook.

If the stove is on the first floor, you can perhaps look in the basement/crawl space and see if there's a capped gas line there.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:28 pm
by frugaltype
Mingus wrote:I understand that white appliances can be perceived as boring.

What I don't understand is the appeal of stainless steel appliances. They are cold looking, dark, and unless things have changed they mar up with fingerprints.

I always thought kitchens were suppose to be warm inviting places. Stainless steel is the opposite of that.

Appliance colors in the 60s and 70s were horrible, looking back, but apparently olive green, harvest yellow, and almond were all the rage. Some of the 1950s appliance colors were okay...

One day in the future, we will collectively look back and be aghast with the stainless steel appliance rage.

I'm sticking with white.
A kindred soul. I too loathe stainless steel appliances.

I like to browse home for sale websites for enjoyment, and I cringe every time I see an "updated" fine old home whose kitchen has been torn out and stainless steel appliances and granite countertops have been put in along with generic "high fashion" cabinets.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:00 pm
by MarcVH
frugaltype wrote: People who actually cook prefer gas stoves over electric because of the infinite control. Also, in a prolonged power failure, you can still cook.

If the stove is on the first floor, you can perhaps look in the basement/crawl space and see if there's a capped gas line there.
Electric induction is generally considered to have superior cooking performance to gas, but is probably out of the price range specified by the OP. Aside from that, gas ranges are generally considered better for cooking but electric ovens better for baking. Gas can cook in a power outage but introduces air quality risks like carbon monoxide.

Energy Star doesn't even bother rating residential ovens or microwaves; there's just not much variation in efficiency and most households don't use them enough for the energy to be significant. I wouldn't expect to save money by making a change; if you do it, do it for other reasons. Refrigerators and dishwashers can be significant energy users, but not stoves or microwaves.

Alas, I would doubt there's a gas line in a house that new; most builders don't want to "waste" money putting in redundant connections that aren't used and most buyers won't care about. If you can't see behind your stove, check your laundry room. Does your dryer have a gas hookup? If not, they probably didn't bother with one for the stove either.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:37 pm
by interplanetjanet
Mingus wrote:Appliance colors in the 60s and 70s were horrible, looking back, but apparently olive green, harvest yellow, and almond were all the rage. Some of the 1950s appliance colors were okay...
I'm looking around at a harvest yellow and olive green kitchen right now. Honestly, I kind of like the look - yes, it's dated, but it's a pleasant riot of color rather than something sterile looking. Long before I'd change the color scheme, I'd redo the cabinet handles...they catch on *everything*.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:41 pm
by BolderBoy
Kosmo wrote:Bosch. Extremely quiet, but it doesn't have a "dry" cycle, so you have to let the dishes air dry after it runs.
Just an FYI about Bosch dishwashers. True they don't have an official dry cycle (some do, but you have to manually turn it on.) But they use the fact that the inside is stainless steel and that the last rinse cycle is done with HOT water to also induce a type of drying that is completed by opening the door a bit, within a short time (30-60 minutes?) after the run is complete. The steam escapes. Then shortly after, you can open the door all the way and the stuff is dry - hot, but dry. Not sure how effective it is in a high humidity climate.

I usually run the dishwasher when I go to bed, so by morning some condensation has reoccurred on the stuff inside the closed dishwasher and some of the stuff needs to be air dried.

FWIW...

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:19 pm
by Kosmo
BolderBoy wrote:
Kosmo wrote:Bosch. Extremely quiet, but it doesn't have a "dry" cycle, so you have to let the dishes air dry after it runs.
Just an FYI about Bosch dishwashers. True they don't have an official dry cycle (some do, but you have to manually turn it on.) But they use the fact that the inside is stainless steel and that the last rinse cycle is done with HOT water to also induce a type of drying that is completed by opening the door a bit, within a short time (30-60 minutes?) after the run is complete. The steam escapes. Then shortly after, you can open the door all the way and the stuff is dry - hot, but dry. Not sure how effective it is in a high humidity climate.

I usually run the dishwasher when I go to bed, so by morning some condensation has reoccurred on the stuff inside the closed dishwasher and some of the stuff needs to be air dried.

FWIW...
Actually, I discovered by accident that the dishes are drier if I open the door soon after the machine is done and let it sit for a little while. Now I know why, thanks!

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:57 am
by Default User BR
interplanetjanet wrote:
Mingus wrote:Appliance colors in the 60s and 70s were horrible, looking back, but apparently olive green, harvest yellow, and almond were all the rage. Some of the 1950s appliance colors were okay...
I'm looking around at a harvest yellow and olive green kitchen right now.
The canonical descriptions were "harvest gold" and "avocado green". When I got my first apartment in the late 70s, those were the two color schemes they came in at the complex. That included the kitchen appliances and counters, plus the matching wall-to-wall carpet (shag, of course, you had to ask?). I ended up with the green.


Brian

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:34 am
by frugaltype
interplanetjanet wrote:
Mingus wrote:Appliance colors in the 60s and 70s were horrible, looking back, but apparently olive green, harvest yellow, and almond were all the rage. Some of the 1950s appliance colors were okay...
I'm looking around at a harvest yellow and olive green kitchen right now. Honestly, I kind of like the look - yes, it's dated, but it's a pleasant riot of color rather than something sterile looking. Long before I'd change the color scheme, I'd redo the cabinet handles...they catch on *everything*.
When I bought my house, I had only enough money left to buy a frig on sale (yes,I know, un-bogel-like to spend that much of my assets, but that was back when jobs were plentiful.) It was avocado and served me well for years.

Cabinet handles are easy to change, and relatively cheap.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:44 am
by pennstater2005
If it all needed replaced I would do it. If it won't match and that bothers you then I would change it. Otherwise just replace what actually needs replaced.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:03 pm
by deanbrew
Being frugal (the wife says "cheap"), I resisted buying stainless steel appliances when we built our house 8 years ago. But instead of white, we went with black. Black fridge, DW, wall oven and cooktop. I still like the look eight years later. It seems to look a bit nicer and more unique than white, but a lot less money than SS. I don't think they are very popular, but Sears offers appliances in "bisque" and "beige". No, they don't sound or look very appealing to me, either.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:30 pm
by interplanetjanet
frugaltype wrote:Cabinet handles are easy to change, and relatively cheap.
Yes - but I'm renting and have been for years (alimony wrecks my DTI for mortgage purposes :?), so changing them isn't in the cards. They would be the first things I would change, though!

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:06 pm
by FNK
I got everything new LG from Home Depot a year and a half ago.

Waited enough for all appliances to be on their last legs.

Used HD card's interest free offer.

Bought extended warranties on the DW and fridge. Used it on the DW already.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:01 pm
by ryuns
FNK wrote: Bought extended warranties on the DW and fridge. Used it on the DW already.
I was trying to figure out where one purchases a warranty for one's wife, before I realized that that was abbreviation for dishwasher. Silly internet.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:06 pm
by ryuns
Probably not the best option for most people but if you're not too into vanity, it's really not a tragedy to stagger them out. My friend has been redo-ing his kitchen in bits and pieces since he moved in and only the stove and hood are stainless, since that's the only appliance he's replaced. Everything else is on its way out but they haven't figured out if they'll remodel anything, so they haven't pulled the trigger. It honestly doesn't look too bad.

As for stainless, I like the look. Fingerprints are only a bit of a pain on the fridge, and only if you touch non-handle surfaces. Everything else is fine. But it's still more work than, say, black, and they do cost a little more. It's also more particular to cleaning--I can't just use the same rag and Simple Green I use for everything else, because it streaks. Stainless steel cleaner works really well, but is harsher than I want to use regularly. A piece of newspaper and Windex also works pretty well.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:41 pm
by YttriumNitrate
deleted.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:42 pm
by mhalley
How about this: Get the stainless dishwasher, and cover it with a magnetic panel to match the rest of your appliances, and replace the others as they break.

http://www.applianceart.com/White_Custo ... 0004-7.htm

Note that you need to test the dishwasher with a magnet to ensure it will stick to it, else you would need a vinly cover.

OR,
Get the SS dishwasher, and get ss panels for the other appliances.

http://www.applianceart.com/Stainless_S ... 10062b.htm

Or, go wild and get some artsy ones. I like "the kiss" by klimt.

http://www.applianceart.com/The_Kiss_Cu ... 036-39.htm


Mike

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:03 pm
by inbox788
You just missed the 4 th of July appliance sale. several stores had good deals and increasing discounts for more than one appliance purchase. I think it was $300 addition discount for 4 appliances at home depot. Best buy and sears also had sales that pretty much matched each others prices. I needed a new washer so got one on order. Your next sale might be labor day if you can wait that long.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:14 pm
by rsw748
How about this: Get the stainless dishwasher, and cover it with a magnetic panel to match the rest of your appliances, and replace the others as they break.

http://www.applianceart.com/White_Custo ... 0004-7.htm

Note that you need to test the dishwasher with a magnet to ensure it will stick to it, else you would need a vinly cover.

OR,
Get the SS dishwasher, and get ss panels for the other appliances.

http://www.applianceart.com/Stainless_S ... 10062b.htm

Or, go wild and get some artsy ones. I like "the kiss" by klimt.

http://www.applianceart.com/The_Kiss_Cu ... 036-39.htm
Really cool, good to know. Thanks.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:34 pm
by madbrain
MarcVH wrote:
frugaltype wrote: People who actually cook prefer gas stoves over electric because of the infinite control. Also, in a prolonged power failure, you can still cook.

If the stove is on the first floor, you can perhaps look in the basement/crawl space and see if there's a capped gas line there.
Electric induction is generally considered to have superior cooking performance to gas, but is probably out of the price range specified by the OP.
Another vote for induction. While it may out of the price range specified by the OP, it may not be more expensive than gas if the kitchen is lacking a gas line, as the addition of the gas line would have to be factored in to the total.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:02 am
by arkerr123
Appliances are now being designed with an expiration date of about 7 years. Dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers, refridgerators. If a component fails at 3-5 years, yes, fix it. If it dies at 8 years, well I will be buying something clearance at Lowes.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:51 am
by spotty_dog
mhalley wrote:Note that you need to test the dishwasher with a magnet to ensure it will stick to it, else you would need a vinly cover.
FWIW, I have read that there are two grades of stainless used for appliance finishes. The kind that magnets stick to is also the kind that smudges worse.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:43 am
by madbrain
arkerr123 wrote:Appliances are now being designed with an expiration date of about 7 years. Dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers, refridgerators. If a component fails at 3-5 years, yes, fix it. If it dies at 8 years, well I will be buying something clearance at Lowes.
I don't think it's true that they are all designed with this short of a lifespan. But it can be difficult to find parts for some >10 year old appliances.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:10 pm
by inbox788
madbrain wrote:
arkerr123 wrote:Appliances are now being designed with an expiration date of about 7 years. Dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers, refridgerators. If a component fails at 3-5 years, yes, fix it. If it dies at 8 years, well I will be buying something clearance at Lowes.
I don't think it's true that they are all designed with this short of a lifespan. But it can be difficult to find parts for some >10 year old appliances.
I recently replaced refrigerator after 7 years, washer after 8 years, dryer is 8 years old and showing signs it's about to go. My dishwasher died after 2 years, and i just didn't bother replacing it. Neighbors new washer didn't last him more than 3 years. In-laws 20 year old washer just died, and I seriously considered spending bucks to get it fixed rather than buy new. I expect the repair to last longer than the new, but despite that, went with new for water savings and improvements. I'm afraid the 20 year appliances are a thing of the past.

Re: Appliances Dilemma - Replace just the broken or Replace

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:27 pm
by madbrain
inbox788 wrote:
madbrain wrote:
arkerr123 wrote:Appliances are now being designed with an expiration date of about 7 years. Dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers, refridgerators. If a component fails at 3-5 years, yes, fix it. If it dies at 8 years, well I will be buying something clearance at Lowes.
I don't think it's true that they are all designed with this short of a lifespan. But it can be difficult to find parts for some >10 year old appliances.
I recently replaced refrigerator after 7 years, washer after 8 years, dryer is 8 years old and showing signs it's about to go. My dishwasher died after 2 years, and i just didn't bother replacing it. Neighbors new washer didn't last him more than 3 years. In-laws 20 year old washer just died, and I seriously considered spending bucks to get it fixed rather than buy new. I expect the repair to last longer than the new, but despite that, went with new for water savings and improvements. I'm afraid the 20 year appliances are a thing of the past.
This doesn't reflect my experience. I must have been luckier in my choice of appliances. I still had a washer & dryer from around 2000 that were running fine last year without ever any repair in my former townhome that was being rented since 2010 before I sold it last year. The kitchen was also gutted in 2005 and all the appliances were still running too.
The only appliance that was a total loss was a Kenmore upright freezer that was in the garage and died at 8 years.