Trading for a used car - arghhhhh

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Trading for a used car - arghhhhh

Postby RetiringSomeday » Sat May 18, 2013 6:48 pm

Bigger family is creating a need for a larger family vehicle.

I am not to proud to get a minivan (probably the most economical choice) but the wife really wants a mid-size suv

How do you know you are getting a reasonable price - both for the trade and the one you are buying !?!?!?!?!?!?

Edmunds

KBB

NADA

the last two is all I have really looked at but they also have subcategories of trade in, private party and retail

I have always had the thought (completely unfounded, just in my head) that you should be able to get private party value for the trade and get the car you are buying at maybe 5% less than listed retail value (which would cover the taxes in my state). I have been driving a pretty hard bargain on several different vehicles and seem to be unable to get the dealers to cave nearly as much as I would have thought - especially since I am pitting a few different dealers against each other.

If it matters we are trading in an 08 patriot with 69k miles and are probably looking at getting some sort of a used Buick Enclave or GMC Acadia.

On new cars it seems easier to decide fair pricing..............

Edit: to say I was trading for a used car not a brand new one
Last edited by RetiringSomeday on Sat May 18, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby magellan » Sat May 18, 2013 7:07 pm

RetiringSomeday wrote:If it matters we are trading in an 08 patriot with 69k miles and are probably looking at getting some sort of a used Buick Enclave or GMC Acadia.

IMO, it's nearly impossible to get the best price on a new car if you include a trade in the deal. With the Internet car buying process that's been described here in many other threads, you can be highly confident you're getting a good price on a new car by spending just a few minutes on your computer. You just send emails to all the nearby dealers that have the car you want on their lot and wait for the prices to stream in.

Once you add a trade to the deal, everything gets muddy and you're stuck driving to multiple dealers to let them inspect the car and give you their sales pitch. They're better at this game than you and each dealer keeps you in the showroom for as many hours as possible. I know some folks thrive on the thrill of the hunt, but I find it a particularly grueling process.

Personally, I've never done a trade. I can easily get $2k-3k more from craigslist for 10-15 hours work. My last sale was a 2006 Rav4. The dealer wanted to give me $7k and I sold it in under 30 days on craigslist for $10.5k. I had to do 1 test drive that didn't pan out and answer a handful of emails/phone calls.

It's definitely more hassle, but I figure I easily cleared $200 per hour or more!

Jim

Edit: I thought from the post title you were buying a new car, but now as I reread the quote it seems like you're buying a used car. Which one is it?
Last edited by magellan on Sat May 18, 2013 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby stan1 » Sat May 18, 2013 7:11 pm

Its been a few years since I sold my prior car at Carmax but I found that to be a very painless experience that took about 90 minutes. That way I could negotiate the price of the new car without adding in the complication of a trade in, and avoided the hassle of selling the old car myself. The price Carmax gave me was fair. Worth a try if you have a Carmax nearby and don't want to deal with selling the car yourself.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby midareff » Sat May 18, 2013 7:39 pm

The second part of the deal is to tell the dealer (new car), after you have your best number from them, you want $2K over what the CarMax number is for a trade and see what they come back with.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby JMacDonald » Sat May 18, 2013 7:47 pm

Hi,
I have been impresses with my recent dealing with Carmax. You might want to give them a try for selling and buying a car.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby ClevrChico » Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm

I definitely agree. I went through the process last month. Definitely separate new car from the trade. An offer from CarMax is certainly good to keep in your back pocket if needed.

As far as trade in value, I found NADA to be the most accurate. Look it up yourself, don't trust the dealer. I caught one dealer red handed lying about the NADA value substantially.

Several dealers made an offer on the trade over email with plenty of pictures. If there's any questions, they will send someone to your house for an in person appraisal.

***** Don't step foot in a dealer until everything is hashed out and you have a signed purchase agreement. *****

midareff wrote:The second part of the deal is to tell the dealer (new car), after you have your best number from them, you want $2K over what the CarMax number is for a trade and see what they come back with.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby dm200 » Sat May 18, 2013 8:25 pm

RetiringSomeday wrote:Bigger family is creating a need for a larger family vehicle.

I am not to proud to get a minivan (probably the most economical choice) but the wife really wants a mid-size suv

How do you know you are getting a reasonable price - both for the trade and the one you are buying !?!?!?!?!?!?

Edmunds

KBB

NADA

the last two is all I have really looked at but they also have subcategories of trade in, private party and retail

I have always had the thought (completely unfounded, just in my head) that you should be able to get private party value for the trade and get the car you are buying at maybe 5% less than listed retail value (which would cover the taxes in my state). I have been driving a pretty hard bargain on several different vehicles and seem to be unable to get the dealers to cave nearly as much as I would have thought - especially since I am pitting a few different dealers against each other.

If it matters we are trading in an 08 patriot with 69k miles and are probably looking at getting some sort of a used Buick Enclave or GMC Acadia.

On new cars it seems easier to decide fair pricing..............


Can you sell the car yourself - and then the negotiation is just for the new car?
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby mike143 » Sat May 18, 2013 10:00 pm

Make a deal out the door on a new car and have them give you a trade offer. April 2011 dealership offered us $5k for 05 Honda Element with 131k, sold it in two days on Craigslist for $7,500 cash. So $2500 minus $150 tax (6%) in our pocket.

fatwallet.com: How to buy a new car, FWF style

JMacDonald wrote:Hi,
I have been impresses with my recent dealing with Carmax. You might want to give them a try for selling and buying a car.


Carmax really low balled us.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby momar » Sat May 18, 2013 10:32 pm

Don't rely on these sites to report what the value of your car is. Go on Craigslist, Autotrader, and the like and find out how much people are listing your car for.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby john94549 » Sat May 18, 2013 10:38 pm

Drive your vehicle into the ground. Give it away. Then, buy a new car. Then, drive it into the ground. Wash, rinse, repeat.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby mike143 » Sat May 18, 2013 10:38 pm

momar wrote:Don't rely on these sites to report what the value of your car is. Go on Craigslist, Autotrader, and the like and find out how much people are listing your car for.

KBB private party has work great for me both on the selling and buying side.
john94549 wrote:Drive your vehicle into the ground. Give it away. Then, buy a new car. Then, drive it into the ground. Wash, rinse, repeat.

That is good in theory but in practice may not be possible due to changes in automotive requirements, which is exactly his case.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby Raymond » Sat May 18, 2013 11:15 pm

Trading a car in and buying a new car are (or should be) two completely separate financial transactions.

My analogy (admittedly a poor one) is that this is like whole life insurance - investments and insurance are completely different things, you are likely to get hosed on one or the other (or even both) if you try to combine them.

Sell the old car yourself, and buy the new car using the internet bid system described in the linked thread.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby MN Finance » Sun May 19, 2013 12:01 am

Raymond wrote:Trading a car in and buying a new car are (or should be) two completely separate financial transactions.

My analogy (admittedly a poor one) is that this is like whole life insurance - investments and insurance are completely different things, you are likely to get hosed on one or the other (or even both) if you try to combine them.

Sell the old car yourself, and buy the new car using the internet bid system described in the linked thread.


If I'm wrong, correct me, but I believe the advantage of the trade in is that you only pay sales tax on the net transaction, so assuming it's a vehicle with some decent value and can get a good trade price, the tax benefit could be important.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby Raymond » Sun May 19, 2013 2:20 am

MN Finance wrote:
Raymond wrote:Trading a car in and buying a new car are (or should be) two completely separate financial transactions.

My analogy (admittedly a poor one) is that this is like whole life insurance - investments and insurance are completely different things, you are likely to get hosed on one or the other (or even both) if you try to combine them.

Sell the old car yourself, and buy the new car using the internet bid system described in the linked thread.


If I'm wrong, correct me, but I believe the advantage of the trade in is that you only pay sales tax on the net transaction, so assuming it's a vehicle with some decent value and can get a good trade price, the tax benefit could be important.


Ah, I was not aware of that - thank you, I learned something new today.

I guess the OP would have to run the numbers to see if the tax savings by trading in the old car exceeds any additional $$$ he could obtain by selling the car himself.
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Re: Trading for a used car - arghhhhh

Postby Big Worm » Tue May 21, 2013 9:59 pm

I don't think Carmaxx is fair at all. They gave me the EXACT same price as the dealer. Carmaxx price was only good for 7 days also. The stupid salesman at the dealership tried the old bait and switch on me but I stonewalled the mess out of him. I ended getting $500 more from the dealer! It was quite possibly the most satisfying moment of my life.
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Re: Trading for a used car - arghhhhh

Postby JMacDonald » Tue May 21, 2013 10:39 pm

Big Worm wrote:I don't think Carmaxx is fair at all. They gave me the EXACT same price as the dealer. Carmaxx price was only good for 7 days also. The stupid salesman at the dealership tried the old bait and switch on me but I stonewalled the mess out of him. I ended getting $500 more from the dealer! It was quite possibly the most satisfying moment of my life.

I guess it depends on the car. I was just looking at new trucks. Toyota offered me 10k for my truck, GMC offered me 9k, and Nissan offered me 8k. When I went to Carmax, they offered me 10,500 without having to buy a car from them. So I consider Carmax a good place to do business.
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Re: Trading for a new car - arghhhhh

Postby jsl11 » Wed May 22, 2013 1:26 am

Raymond wrote:
MN Finance wrote:
Raymond wrote:Trading a car in and buying a new car are (or should be) two completely separate financial transactions.

My analogy (admittedly a poor one) is that this is like whole life insurance - investments and insurance are completely different things, you are likely to get hosed on one or the other (or even both) if you try to combine them.

Sell the old car yourself, and buy the new car using the internet bid system described in the linked thread.


If I'm wrong, correct me, but I believe the advantage of the trade in is that you only pay sales tax on the net transaction, so assuming it's a vehicle with some decent value and can get a good trade price, the tax benefit could be important.


Ah, I was not aware of that - thank you, I learned something new today.

I guess the OP would have to run the numbers to see if the tax savings by trading in the old car exceeds any additional $$$ he could obtain by selling the car himself.

Sales tax laws can vary from one state to another. In my state, we pay on the net transaction as suggested above. You should verify that for your state before making a decision that depended on that law.
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