can i buy my sportscar?

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can i buy my sportscar?

Postby sambb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:03 am

can i have permission to buy my sports car?
I drive a toyota camry which i would keep, sprts car for the weekends and fun
net worth is 3 million, 2.3 mil in vanguard mutual funds
i save 125k a year into target retirement funds
mortgage of 160k
married, 2 kids

car i want is 75k - would pay outright, keep for 8-10 years

i a 43 years old and this is my mid life crisis
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby cheese_breath » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:06 am

You need to ask your wife's permission, not ours.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Chan_va » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:09 am

You deserve a fun car, but why buy new? Expensive sports card depreciate like a brick. What sports car are you looking at? Bet you can find one a few years old for half the price or less.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby chaz » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:09 am

Can you afford it? :D
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby sambb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:15 am

Chan_va wrote:You deserve a fun car, but why buy new? Expensive sports card depreciate like a brick. What sports car are you looking at? Bet you can find one a few years old for half the price or less.



It is a 911 carrera 4s, 2011, 5k miles. yes, used. new is 115k-125k!
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby tyrion » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:19 am

Obviously you can afford it. Just as obviously, you can't afford to buy a sports car every year or two.

So is this the one you want? For sure? And you'll be happy with it for 10 years? Then go for it. But if not, keep researching. Remember that the anticipation of having it is half the fun. Okay, maybe not really half, but you get the idea.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby sambb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:24 am

Really,it is the one i want. I guess, i keep cars for 8 years or so. So, a toy like this I would keep longer. I dont flip them like most people.
I have worked hard and sacrificed a lot to be frugal and save a lot. I am beginning to wonder what the point is, if you can't splurge once in a while to keep it fresh.
I just dont know who splurges on these expensive cars. I have owned used BMWs in the past (30-35k $ with 20k miles). But I see so many expensive cars around, and they cant possibly all make my kind of salary or save as much as me. So I dont get it - my friends say that 80% of them are leased.

Anyway, i am trying to figure out if I can afford it, given my general financial situation. If I can, then why the heck not do it once in a while, though it will cost me 6-8 months of savings.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby BL » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:33 am

Sure. This year you splurge, next year wife splurges, following year two kids splurge. Fair enough?
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby sambb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:34 am

BL wrote:Sure. This year you splurge, next year wife splurges, following year two kids splurge. Fair enough?


OK youre killing me, i wont do it... thanks for the reality check.. Millionaire next door is a little fun but not so much.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby momar » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:39 am

You can afford it. You probably barely need to save anything more the rest of your career.

Its only half a year of savings.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby rallycobra » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:51 am

I thought I read recently that Porsche was running some special lease deals. Why not just lease it for 2 or 3 years? If you are totally in love you can buy it at the end of the lease, or just lease something else. A guy I worked with leased used 911's all the time. I'm not sure if this is a Porsche thing that you can lease a CPO, or if it is dealer specific.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby BBL » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:56 am

Sorry OP but I really don't like telling people what to do [or not do]. But I really like to say: "It's your money, do what you want".... FWIW :P
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Puakinekine » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:58 am

Barring expensive medical issues or disability, it seems you can afford it, so do it now and get it out of your system. It is cheaper then a boat, gambling, therapy (or a new family!) and you can sell when you get tired of it. It always makes me sad to see older guys (I mean much older guys) driving sports cars. The car does not seem to match the driver.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Wolkenspiel » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:59 am

sambb wrote:
Chan_va wrote:You deserve a fun car, but why buy new? Expensive sports card depreciate like a brick. What sports car are you looking at? Bet you can find one a few years old for half the price or less.


It is a 911 carrera 4s, 2011, 5k miles. yes, used. new is 115k-125k!


This is not what you asked for, but I think the 997 is starting to look a little frumpy compared to the 991 (even though most people would have a hard time telling the difference at all). Good deals on used 991s are harder to find, but I would give it a little time. Obviously, if you're set on the 4s, that would take somewhat longer as it just came out.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby stoptothink » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:10 pm

Am I the only person who thinks these "can I afford it" threads are backdoor brags? Whether it is worth it is another discussion altogether, but with the OP's net worth and savings rate, he absolutely can afford it. Might require the wife's permission, asking Boglehead's permission seems a little superfluous.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby sambb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:18 pm

it is not a brag. In fact, this is a forum where one can discuss net worth anonymously. In my area where I live, no one would suspect that I have this net worth, and it is because I live very frugally, and have invested well since age 19. Had a few big hits in the market and some lucky (very lucky) market timing. Went to college and did well academically to cover it all. Finally, a goo d income keeps me stable. And now I just try to put it all into vanguard and not think about it.

I asked the question because I have never really bought anything expensive, and i was wondering who gets these things and what kind of worth is needed. I appreciate the input of others who say it is affordable for my situation, but I was very affected as well by the "slippery slope" idea that someone brought up, as far as next year my family can splurge. But I dont know if that is psychology or investing advice.

Thanks to those who offede an opinion.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Chan_va » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:22 pm

I had a similar impulse a few years ago. What I finally decided was that I would have more fun in a car where I could approach it's limits during normal driving. As a fun second car, you can't beat a mazda miata. You can pick one up for 5-10k and it will be a blast. That's what I did.

Well it was a blast for a year or so. Then I found that the burden of maintaining 2 cars was just not worth it. So I am back down to 1 car and I satisfied my cravings for a net loss of a few grand.

Here is what I would suggest - buy a miata for 5K, drive it for a year and see if you like having a fun second car. If you do, and you still want the porsche after that time, go for it.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby NHRATA01 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:48 pm

If you really want to bogglehead this out, take that 75K for 2 years and pay off the mortgage, and then in year 3 buy the Porsche ;)

I was the reverse - my "sports car" purchase was 12 years ago fresh out of college and spent about every penny I had saved and lived like a pauper for 3 years to pay off a new Trans Am. However accounting the 40K miles of joy I've gotten from it since, driving, racing, and wrenching (even accounting for a wife and 3 children), I do not at all regret the financially juvenile decision. You neither need to consume top ramen nor live in an apartment to cover the cost, and have a plenty admirable savings for your age, so I say do it.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Random Poster » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:11 pm

sambb wrote:mortgage of 160k


You have debt. Don't buy the car.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby midareff » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:15 pm

goforit!
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Khanmots » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:15 pm

Chan_va wrote:I had a similar impulse a few years ago. What I finally decided was that I would have more fun in a car where I could approach it's limits during normal driving. As a fun second car, you can't beat a mazda miata. You can pick one up for 5-10k and it will be a blast. That's what I did.

Well it was a blast for a year or so. Then I found that the burden of maintaining 2 cars was just not worth it. So I am back down to 1 car and I satisfied my cravings for a net loss of a few grand.

Here is what I would suggest - buy a miata for 5K, drive it for a year and see if you like having a fun second car. If you do, and you still want the porsche after that time, go for it.

I'd think long and hard about this... what are you *really* wanting from your car?

Personally I've got an Acrua RSX-S that I push hard almost every day. If I were to have a Carrera 4s, I'd barely be able to push it unless I was at the track. Of course I'd still be able to experience the same level of performance that I do now, take corners at the same speeds or faster, accelerate just as fast or faster... but I wouldn't be pushing the car to do so. I find a lot of fun in seeing how me learning to be a better driver lets me get more out of my car. As a result of having to work within the limits of a NA 2L 4-banger (performance engine or not...) I've learned to heal-toe downshift as I enter a corner. And... as a result of the learning experience for that I've also learned how to double-clutch to compensate for partially blowing my synchros. :oops: I've learned how to best take advantage of the power I do have.

That said, my brother doesn't like that. He went with a car with a larger more powerful engine where he doesn't approach the edges of the envelope. He probably drives about as spirited as I do, I just enjoy having my car with constraints that I get to work within he likes having the limit be him and the car able to exceed where he wants to push it. Different mindsets. Point is we're happy with drastically different cars despite wanting to drive at about the same degree of spiritedness.

If you're more like my brother than me, and you'd really enjoy the car then go for it. Just don't make it a yearly habit ;)

All that said... personally a Porsche is on my personal want list. Eventually. Maybe in 10-20 years I'll be able to get one as well.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby user5027 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:26 pm

A contractor friend does bath and kitchen remodeling. He's told me that when he goes to a house to make his pitch, if there is a corvette in the driveway, it will be an easy sell. He got his. Now she is getting hers. :D
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby livesoft » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:39 pm

A few of my friends have that car, so go for it. You can always sell it after you drive it 5,000 miles, so it won't really cost you $75,000. I think you will need new tires every 500 miles or so. :twisted: No need to keep it 8-10 years.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Driver » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:44 pm

Buy it.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby ocdokie » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:00 pm

I understand you wanting that car. In my mid-40's mid-life crisis, I bought a 2-year-old Porsche Boxster (Guard Red convertible with red brake calipers, thank you very much). I intended to keep the car for at least 10 years, which is usual for me. Unlike you, though, DH and I had no debt and no kids. Neither of us had ever had a convertible, and we loved that and the car's excellent handling. It was a sheer pleasure to drive, and just listening to the growl of the engine made me smile. We kept it pristine inside and out.

Everything was great until the winter weather hit (we bought it the previous March, so we'd had a good nine months of clear roads). It turned out that I could not drive the Porsche on snowy/icy roads -- I was terrified that I'd mess it up by crashing into something (or worse, have someone else crash into it). So, I garaged it for the next three months and brought my 12-year-old Mazda Protege out of storage for the winter.

Come March, we'd had the Porsche for a year and I decided that my mid-life crisis was over. As much as we enjoyed that car, I realized that it wasn't a practical year-round driver, so I took it back to the dealer, who bought it back for $3K less than I had paid for it. So essentially, we paid $3k for the pleasure of driving the car for 9 months. That was expensive, but we remember that car very fondly and are glad we bought it.

By the way, I drove the Mazda for another 2 years (14 in all), and it was a champ. Cheap to buy and cheap to maintain, plus great gas mileage. That's all I ask of a car these days.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Raybo » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:04 pm

Two points.

1) In 1998, I sold an internet business for $100K. It was an installment deal and I got $40K up front. With that, I thought about buying something frivolous. I considered a sailboat, 2-seater Mercedes sports car, and a few other things. One day I was hitting balls at the driving range and saw someone with a Mercedes 2-seater drive up. I saw that size of the trunk, which was just big enough to hold his golf clubs and realized that if I had one, it would be hard to take enough luggage for 2 people for more than an overnight away. That convinced me that whatever I spent the money on, it would be wasted. Instead, I paid down the mortgage.

2) Might it be possible to do a long-term rental of such a car, say a couple months, just to see if you like it as much as you think and will actually drive it enough to justify the expense? Whether you have "enough" money or not, it is a fair amount of money and it would be unfortunately to "waste" it.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby KyleAAA » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:13 pm

Are you kidding? You save more in a year than this car costs. You'd be able pay cash for it in what, like 7 months? Go for it. Just don't buy a new sports car every 3 years and you'll be fine.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby fsrph » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:20 pm

sambb wrote:I have worked hard and sacrificed a lot to be frugal and save a lot. I am beginning to wonder what the point is, if you can't splurge once in a while to keep it fresh.

I agree with this mindset. Buy the car. Enjoy the car.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby 325e » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:35 pm

I like the older porsches. You can get an 80s 911 for $20k. You'll have to eat a few maintenance costs now and then, but you'll probably be sick of it after a few years and then can sell it again for $20k.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby MGBGTV8 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:39 pm

Have you test-driven it? When I was sportscar shopping, I looked at a Lotus Elise. It was $40K and I thought well, it would be a sportscar for life, with the Aluminum chassis, etc. I got in it, and I realized that I had to lift my feet up higher than my seat bottom to get in and out (Like a Jag XKE). Others in the MG club had sold their MGAs due to not wanting to fold themselves in half to get in and out, so I passed on the Elise. It was not as practical (in other ways as well) of a 2nd car as I had hoped to buy. You can tell by my login what I bought- it has collector value, but wasn't so expensive or exotic that it wold attract unwanted attention.

I would consider the classic Porsche market. You may find something to your liking that isn't on the steep part of the depreciation curve.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby eucalyptus » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:07 pm

No.

Buy an early Ferrari 360, for the same money or perhaps just a bit more.

There is a substitute after all.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby reggiesimpson » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:28 pm

I bought an AC Cobra (replica) when i was 47. I still drive it (65). Do it!
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby The Wizard » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:28 pm

I'd feel better with a "yes" answer if you already had a foot in the sports car segment and were just upgrading.
Myself for instance, I had an old Chrysler convertible (hardly a "sports car") for over 10 yrs before it died.
Then I bought a Mustang convertible for 1/3 the amount the OP is pondering. Yes, I keep it in my garage when the roads are white and drive my 4x4 pickup instead for a while.
So less of a mid-life crisis and more of a lifestyle choice here...
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Random Musings » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:42 pm

Buy a good used one - although the question begs if you are going to finance this or buy in cash?

I assume you are keeping the house mortgage since you believe the incremental portion of your portfolio that would pay this off will outperform the after-tax loan rate.

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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby tphp99 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm

You're going from a Camry to a 911? What's wrong with you? Just busting your chops.

Go for it. Folks on this board can afford a Ferrari yet drive a Civic. :twisted:

Make sure you get the manual and get that stock exhaust upgraded.

The new 991 with sports exhaust and 7 speed manual is the bomb though. Look into the lease option.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby sambb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:49 pm

I have owned a used m3. Based in this discussion u am leani g towards buying. At worst i sell in a year and lose a small amount
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Kurmudjon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Been there done that. Buy the car--enjoy what you have accomplished.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby abonder » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:02 pm

Great discussion - I think it's clear that, financially, you can afford it. And I think that only a small proportion of people driving your desired car are as fiscally "shored-up" as you are. That being said, my only concern would be that your guilt/doubts would prevent you from fully enjoying/embracing the experience.

It sounds like you've owned some nice other sports cars and this vehicle would really allow you to enjoy another level of automotive experience.

I recently purchased a 4-year-old Miata fully loaded with less than 20K miles and it's an incredibly fun little toy. It's not particularly fast (0-60 in mid 6s range) but it has an incredibly wonderful 6-speed manual, leather, heated seats, xenons. It's been on Car and Drivers ten best handling list virtually every year. It's a car you can really drive hard and have a thrilling experience on normal roads. I have people comment on it's good look virtually evry time I drive it, which I find funny bc it cost me less than a new Civic and it gets 30 MPG. Clearly, it's not close to the level of the Porsche, but it always put a huge smile on my face. My financial situation is much less secure than yours (congrats, by the way) but I could never bring myself to buy a more expensive car as the payoff would be greatly outweighed by my guilt/hatred of handing over truckloads of money to german mechanics on a regular basis.

I think you're in a win-win situation either way.

Cheers.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby fishnskiguy » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:22 pm

Do it. That's a car you can enjoy for the rest of your life.

I bought a new 1970 911T, drove it for ten years and sold it for what I paid for it. Of course there was just a tad inflation back then. :D

Br sure to join the Porsche Club of America. You'll be glad you did.

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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby plannerman » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:31 pm

I bought a poor man's Porsche (1993 Toyota MR2) for my midlife crises 20 years ago and 1) I'm still driving it and 2) I have never been sorry.

Go for it!
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby hicabob » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:44 pm

plannerman wrote:I bought a poor man's Porsche (1993 Toyota MR2) for my midlife crises 20 years ago and 1) I'm still driving it and 2) I have never been sorry.

Go for it!


Mister2's were nice - a good "boglehead type sportscar" . I suppose the Scion FS-R / Subaru BRZ is the modern equivalent.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby 02sbxstr » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:46 pm

tyrion wrote: So is this the one you want? For sure? And you'll be happy with it for 10 years? Then go for it.


Of course he'll be happy with for 10 years, probably many more -- it is, after all, a Porsche. And a nice one at that. I bought mine, an '02 Boxster S, 10 years ago and have never looked back. Looking forward to bringing it out of hibernation this weekend. Given the financials mentioned in the OP, there is no problem whatsoever in splurging. Of course it will suffer some depreciation, but if it is kept completely original, not raced (occasional track days are okay), Porsche maintained, and used sparingly, it will be of interest to Porsche enthusiast in the future. After all, you never saw an armored car in a funeral procession.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Dulocracy » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:54 pm

I will be blunt. Sure, you can afford it, but should you? If you died tomorrow, would your family be ok until your wife dies and your children are out of college? If they would be even if you bought the car, go for it. If not, try a less expensive fun car. I am not the type to deprive myself of everything in saving for tomorrow. I do, however, believe that I have a responsibility to my family. I wanted to splurge, and I got a $20,200 Volkswagon Jetta new. I will drive it for about 8 years. It is fun to drive (and I drive a lot to commute to work), but it is reliable. I bought new because an old car of mine was used and had some problems. I am willing to take some depreciation to know how the car is maintained. I am not, however, going to sacrifice my family's security for a car.

If you bought the car and you believe they would still be taken care of, then it is NOT irresponsible. If they would suffer if you bought it and died the next day, consider a less expensive but also fun vehicle.
I'm not a financial professional. Post is info only & not legal advice. No attorney-client relationship exists with reader. Scrutinize my ideas as if you spoke with a guy at a bar. I may be wrong.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby stoptothink » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:38 pm

Dulocracy wrote:If you bought the car and you believe they would still be taken care of, then it is NOT irresponsible.


If you read the OP, you'd realize that is exactly the case.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby sambb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:59 pm

I can afford to lose 10 or 20 or 30k if there is something bad that happens.
Remember the car can be sold.

I think im going to go for it but spend 60k instead for a regular carrera. No s. No 4. It shluld work.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby MGBGTV8 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:33 pm

Don't cheap out. Get what you want. Test drive a lot of cars though.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Wricha » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:44 pm

Buy a 993 air cooled real Porsche and the best looking 911 ever for about $35k
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby interplanetjanet » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:55 pm

Honestly - you can afford it, I won't argue that point.

However, going from a Camry to a Porsche is a bit of a change. If you enjoy driving as I do, you may find that a performance driving class or two will help you to hone your skills in a controlled environment. Plus, I remember it being a heck of a lot of fun. I would start with that, see what happens to your "need for speed" and then decide.
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby hicabob » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:04 pm

Wricha wrote:Buy a 993 air cooled real Porsche and the best looking 911 ever for about $35k


for an investment a 993 probably wins - from my buddy, a German accountant/porsche afficianado/collector when asked recs for reliable, possibly appreciating 911 ...
"

I will call you today. Do you have your second spring?

I would only recommend the G-Model from 1980 to 1986 or the 993 Model from 1994 to 1997 (because these are the last air-cooled models = a collectors car in the future with reasonable prices in the present).

The G Model is a pure Porsche here you should look for a SC (not older than 1981, ideal is the version with 204 HP) or the Carrera (Not older than 1985 with 217 or 231 HP). These cars make a lot of fun, they have a simple electronic, no servo steering or clutch. This is a Porsche for real man. The disadvantage is, that the maintenance is very expensive.

The 993 is the optimum of the Air-Cooled Versions. It has servo steering, brakes and clutch the engine has up to 284 HP. You can get this version with 5 Gear Tiptronic (=Automatic). The Top Speed and acceleration is nearly the same like the manual Gear-Box types. The advantage is, that it is nearly not possible to destroy the engine with the Tiptronic. The maintenance is much cheaper than the G-Models but the prices here in Germany are nearly the same or cheaper.

You can buy a 993 Model in Germany built in 1994 with about 60.000 Miles and from first owner for about 42.000 USD, a 911 SC built in 1982 with the same mileage costs and also only on owner costs more than 50.000 USD.

I think for your aim the 993 is the best choice, because prices of this Type start to rise now. It is the last air-cooled 911, it looks very nice, it was not built so often and it has the best technical standard of all air-cooled versions. If you can spend about 75.000 USD or more you can think about the 993 Turbo with 408 HP or the 993 Turbo S with 450 HP, this is the optimum and will be the most expensive collector cars in the future.

Kind regards
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Re: can i buy my sportscar?

Postby Toons » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:23 pm

Quit deliberating,go to the dealership tomorrow and write a check ,drive the car home. :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
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