europe trip

[LH]

going to europe july 22 to august 2nd.

Flying standby into Paris.

husband wife, two girls 10, 11 years old.

What are some good bargain ways to travel, places to stay? Have already been to Paris. We have been to italy. We plan to take a train to somewhere else.

Looked at Viking river cruises but was too expensive, least on site I looked on.

thinking spain, portugual, belgium, netherlands etc, etc. Whatever.

any ideas appreciated,

LH

[davebarnes]

You are going at the absolute worst time.
All of Europe is on vacation then.
Highest prices and most crowded.

That said.
Normandy.
http://www.tapestry-bayeux.com/ is 1000 years old and amazing
the D-Day beaches, etc.
food
avoid Deauville at all costs
stay at Hôtel Chateau De Sully, Route De Port En Bessin, 14400 Bayeux (highly recommended, we loved our stay there)
(the Normans like Americans)

Brittany
seafood

rent a car and drive, relax

tripadvisor.com
yelp.com

Our daughter was 14 and loved it.

[Steelersfan]

How does a family of four people flying to Europe go "Stand-by"? Those flights are often very full.

What is the chance that all four of you will get there at the same time?

[crowd79]

Not trying to ruin your experience, but your children are 10 and 11 years old. Will they even appreciate going to and remembering Europe at those ages? I'd look at Disney World if it were my family...

[Calm Man]

You are really going to fly standby with a family of 4? I suggest paying upfront or doing a trip that is more affordable. P.S. Kids that age couldn't care less about Europe in my experience.

[Steelersfan]

Lots of good travel questions and answers on this message board.

I limited it to messages about France:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/france/

[Puakinekine]

going to europe july 22 to august 2nd.

Flying standby into Paris.

husband wife, two girls 10, 11 years old.

What are some good bargain ways to travel, places to stay? Have already been to Paris. We have been to italy. We plan to take a train to somewhere else.

Looked at Viking river cruises but was too expensive, least on site I looked on.

thinking spain, portugual, belgium, netherlands etc, etc. Whatever.

any ideas appreciated,

LH

When we had kids that age, we rented apartments (much cheaper and much more space for everyone) in central and interesting locations and then made ever widening circles to explore from our new home. The easiest places to do this per your list would be Belgium and The Netherlands or the Black Forest area, Mosel or Rhine Valleys in Germany. As much as I love Spain and Portugal, it will be too hot, much too hot. (Unless you can adjust them all to siesta and staying up late into the night) We even stayed in Rotterdam for a week, not on the top of any tourist's list, and had a great time doing day trips all over the Netherlands. In Belgium, I would recommend Bruges, biking on walking on the canals to the other towns, and day trips as well.

Our kids liked their new homes, having space, not having to go out for every meal, and not having to pack up every other night to go someplace else. I liked it, too. We still travel this way, even though an apartment for 2 is not cheaper then a hotel room

Many European rail systems have deals and passes for families. Don't use Rail Europe, but the websites from the countries themselves, saying you are from the UK for translation purposes and not the US, or you will be shunted off to the more expensive US websites

You might also think of the UK. It is affordable outside of London, the down side being that you will have to rent a car, as the trains are expensive and often do go where you want them to go.

[obgraham]

Another vote for Netherlands. Plenty of interesting things to see there, and few language difficulties.

Too bad you're trying to fly to Paris. CDG airport is the worst in the world in my opinion.

[LH]

yeah, the only direct flight to europe from my area is to paris, and flying standby, a single flight is the way to go : ) I will either get there, or sleep in my bed at home, now getting back, I have left 3 days to try : )

Good info about spain temp, I did not think of that. Could go anywhere in europe really, not just what I listed. Looking to keep cost down as much as possible. Will look into family rail pass.

thanks for all info so far,

LH

[Steelersfan]

A family rail pass is often not the way to go. If you're making shorter trips within a country, you can get better deals by buying family tickets for each leg from the rail company in that country. For longer multi-country train travel it can work out.

This site has lots of good advice for traveling by train in Europe.

http://www.seat61.com/

With four of you, it is probably cheaper to rent a car, but the European trains are way better and a more relaxing way to travel than what we are used to in the United States.

[frequentT]

Not much direction given, so here are a few ideas

your time is short so don't try to go so far; France has so much variety in one country, its hard to beat. If you want to train, the TGV will take you anywhere quickly

Countryside, small towns are good---boring for your kids? Loire Valley good starting point for a road trip

also Benelux is good for variety

you can do the Rhine Valley and do some day cruises & castles

as has been said, renting a car is the most economical for your family and the most flexible

[JCom]

I am also going to Europe this summer. My best travel tip is to rent an apartment. I have done so in Washington DC as well as Colorado. I just booked apartments for London, Paris, and Rome.

I know there are many websites like this but these are the two I've had the most luck with:

Airbnb.com
Homeaway.com

[2stepsbehind]

Take the kids to Disneyland Paris--win/win

[22twain]

A family rail pass is often not the way to go. If you're making shorter trips within a country, you can get better deals by buying family tickets for each leg from the rail company in that country. For longer multi-country train travel it can work out.

If you're focusing on a particular region by staying in one city and using it as a base for day trips, you may be able to find passes tailored for this. For example, in Germany, the "Bayern-Ticket" is good for unlimited use for one day not only on all regional trains in Bavaria, but also on local transport (streetcars, buses, subway) in most cities. 26 euros covers two adults and up to five children who are traveling with them.

http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm

There are similar passes for other German regions. My wife and I used the "Thüringen-Ticket" for day trips when we stayed in Erfurt for several days a few years ago.

[yukonjack]

Your best move at such a tough time to be in Europe is to move your arrival up 2 days and catch the final day of the Tour de France. The race ends in Paris on 7/21.

[climber2020]

One of my favorite visits in Europe is Switzerland. Lots of mountains and lakes and stuff.

[Dave76]

Take the kids to Disneyland Paris--win/win

You mean lose/lose. They can see that here. International travel is a good experience for the kids. I began traveling around Europe at age 4. My parents wanted to take us to Israel in 1987, but the Intifada broke out. So we went to Disney World instead. I was disappointed.

I second Switzerland.

[henry A]

Alsace is great wine country with many very picturesque villages. Basel, CH and Zürich are also a hop skip and a jump away! You may even consider Luxembourg by rail. All are within a 2 hour or so distance! I have never done southern France, but I have heard great things. Good luck and have fun!

[jebmke]

Alsace is great wine country with many very picturesque villages. Basel, CH and Zürich are also a hop skip and a jump away! You may even consider Luxembourg by rail. All are within a 2 hour or so distance! I have never done southern France, but I have heard great things. Good luck and have fun!

Southern France will be hot and crowded. As someone mentioned, late July and August is peak vacation season for Europeans. When I lived in Belgium, we generally just laid low and took day trips to off-the-beaten path areas that generally don't get much tourist traffic.

[BlueEars]

A few nice day trips out of Paris (by train) are Fountainbleu, Vie Le Vicomte and Chartre. Check out the Rick Steve's Paris book for details. Your library might carry a copy of this book.

[nimo956]

While, I've never been, I've heard Prague is supposed to be a very inexpensive place to visit.

[Peter Foley]

We were watching Rick Steves' travel tips last night on PBS. He made a general comment about European travel related to weather: When traveling during the summer stay north of the Alps and when traveling spring and fall go south of the Alps. Something to keep in mind.
Rick Steves also mention that for 3-4 people it is often cheaper to rent a car. Dropping a car off in the same country usually costs little extra.

If you want to see a lot of picturesque little villages, I would suggest the Alsace. We have distant cousins there and have traveled with them a number of times. The whole area from Strasbourg to Colmar is worth exploring. Normandy and Bretagne are also reasonable possibilities - but it rains a lot there. The Chateaux of the Loire are beautiful and would be entertaining for kids. They are a few hours drive from Paris. You could easily spend a couple of days there. We were there in the fall, I'm not sure what summer crowds are like. Typically if you get to a place early you will avoid the organized tours. With your time limitations I would recommend a few day trips from Paris and one or two longer excursions in France. Mont St. Michel is great if the tides are right - more interesting for kids than Chartres.

If you decide on the Alsace, send me a pm and I will send you some recomendations for towns, places to stay and activities.

[crowd79]

While, I've never been, I've heard Prague is supposed to be a very inexpensive place to visit.

+1. Absolutely loved Prague, but I drank a lot, too. Very walkable city with attractions close together and many beautiful views.

[EternalOptimist]

Have found trip advisor to be helpful in my travels

http://www.tripadvisor.com/

[climber2020]

While, I've never been, I've heard Prague is supposed to be a very inexpensive place to visit.

+1. Absolutely loved Prague, but I drank a lot, too. Very walkable city with attractions close together and many beautiful views.

Prague has gotten more expensive recently. Sadly, the days of 50 cent half liters of beer are gone. It still remains a better deal than places like France or Italy.

[gd]

For example, in Germany, the "Bayern-Ticket" is good for unlimited use for one day not only on all regional trains in Bavaria, but also on local transport (streetcars, buses, subway) in most cities. 26 euros covers two adults and up to five children who are traveling with them.

Trivia, but I think they've changed the Bayern-Ticket so that you specify the number travelling and the price is adjusted slightly. It also isn't valid for weekday morning rush hours. Moral: verify everything. Stuff changes. Expect the unexpected. I can't imagine how you'd arrange pre-booked accommodations or events (e.g. river cruises) with standby air travel. I don't think I've flown on a transatlantic flight for several years with more than a few empty seats if any, and that's always spring or fall. Could be that they were full of standbys, but I wouldn't bet my trip on it.

[Kevin21]

If you like wine...

I have heard Bilbao, Spain is a nice place and Rioja region is right around the corner... and I have also been to Santiago de Compestela which is one of my favorite places on the earth (if you like white wines, seafood/shellfish, this place is heaven.)

Northern Portugal has great Vinho Verde, and Douro Valley outside of Porto has amazing landscapes, great red wines and port wines.

[beachplum]

yeah, the only direct flight to europe from my area is to paris, and flying standby, a single flight is the way to go : ) I will either get there, or sleep in my bed at home, now getting back, I have left 3 days to try : )

Good info about spain temp, I did not think of that. Could go anywhere in europe really, not just what I listed. Looking to keep cost down as much as possible. Will look into family rail pass.

thanks for all info so far,

LH

I took a 10 year old and a 15 year old to Europe at one time and traveled all over my train. Denmark was great for both. Copenhagen has Tivoli Gardens which has something for everyone. Couldn't get the 10 year old away from the amusement park. Took a trip to Legoland that everyone loved. the Netherlands was fun too. I love Spain, and yes it's hot in the summer, but if you stay in the North, Galicia, Santander etc. it should be fine and worth it.

[22twain]

Note that that one doesn't have to go all the way to Denmark to experience Legoland on a European trip. There's another one near Günzburg, Germany, which is about halfway between Stuttgart and Munich.

[NateH]

I've been to Geneva in the summer and it was beautiful.

[Puakinekine]

What are some good bargain ways to travel, places to stay? Have already been to Paris. We have been to italy. We plan to take a train to somewhere else.

Switzerland and Denmark and Scandinavia are wonderful places to visit, but they are anything but bargains. Hotels are very expensive, apartment deals are difficult to come by (or were 6 or so years ago), and ones heart sinks at every meal time multiplying the menu options times four. And we live in Hawaii, so are used to paying high prices for everything.

LH, you mentioned looking into river cruises, did you look at bargain rates for Baltic cruises? Although, I am not particularly a fan of cruises, we took a Baltic cruise with the kids years ago, and it still remains one of my favorite travel memories. And some of them stop at Aarhus, "Gateway to Legoland". I much preferred St Petersburg and Helsinki myself.

[Kevin21]

For a cheap hotel in Paris... check out this place.

e-mail: hotel.esperance@wanadoo.fr
Web site: www.hoteldelesperance.fr

Very convenient location, and decent enough accommodations. The staff can be hit or miss, but for the price, cannot be beat! I think it also includes some kind of breakfast, but many cafes and markets are nearby.

[arkerr123]

Not trying to ruin your experience, but your children are 10 and 11 years old. Will they even appreciate going to and remembering Europe at those ages? I'd look at Disney World if it were my family...

They absolutely will remember it.

My parents took me when I was 11 and found that it greatly opened my eyes to the world around me.

I definitely dont remember everything, but I remember it being wonderful

[Puakinekine]

Not trying to ruin your experience, but your children are 10 and 11 years old. Will they even appreciate going to and remembering Europe at those ages? I'd look at Disney World if it were my family...

They absolutely will remember it.

My parents took me when I was 11 and found that it greatly opened my eyes to the world around me.

I definitely don't remember everything, but I remember it being wonderful

Great post. That is the way my kids feel about it, even the one who burst into tears at age 10 in the National Portrait Gallery in London at the tail end of a long trip, sobbing "No more art. No more art." His father took him to the Imperial War Museum the next day and all was well.

[Professor Emeritus]

Work or fun has taken me to Europe almost every year since 1977. (DW and I are also Irish Citizens) Also taken the daughters from infants to adults.
1) Costs will kill you if you don't understand the European way of family travel. Best bet is to rent an apartment in a small town in a nice area with good transit connections.
French and Austrian ski areas in summer are especially good deals because they have lots of excursions for kids. I agree that Normandy away from the coast can be very very nice and reasonable.
2) research cheap air fares and family transit passes. You may find it worth flying from Paris to Bavaria (Ok I'm biased I lecture in Kempten)
3) every place in Europe has something historical near by. Explore
4) in France the best ice breaker is to ask at the store "What is a good local wine?"
Eat bread and cheese and feel the pace of the place. Make a cup of coffee last an hour.

[Curlyq]

If you and your family likes to camp, you can rent an RV and get the France Passion card and stay free at many different farms, vineries, parks, and the like. RV = $$, camping spot = free, so it might work for your budget. You'll need a self-contained RV for this as these are unimproved campsites.

[cherijoh]

One of my favorite visits in Europe is Switzerland. Lots of mountains and lakes and stuff.

However, no one would call Switerland a bargain !

This summer I am doing a Viking cruise in Germany (my second cruise with them). I would not recommend it for a family with kids your age - it is totally different from the large ship cruises with which we are all familiar. The only "entertainment" is cultural and the included tours focus on the same. However, you might want to check out their itineraries to find one that appeals to you and use it as a basis for a driving tour. The kids might enjoy touring some castles and really old walled medaevil towns. And the scenery is fantastic as well - their website includes short videos of each tour.

I did a barge cruise in France a few years ago and there were plenty of people who rented small house boats and traveled the canals. All the little towns have berths along the canal where you can stay overnight - they have electrical hook-ups like RV camp sites here in the states. I think most of the rental boats came with bicycles for touring the town. Or one could just walk to restaurants and shopping in the smaller towns. It was very relaxing - we did 100 Km in about six days. Our guided tour had a bus so we were making excursions thoughout the countryside for half the day, then cruising the other half. In the Netherlands, there are extensive bike trails so you could tour the countryside in a series of day trips.

[LH]

Wow,

Thanks for all the great tips.

OK, I will plan to rent a car, and forget the Rail. I assume renting a car is not a problem, since no one mentioned any. That is a great idea.

Renting an apartment sounds like the way to go. Thats what we did the last time in Paris, through VRBO.com.

Maybe hit on expensive place a day or so, but stay the majority in inexpensive places like Prague or whatever (have not looked at distances per se).

I am going to have to reread all the recommendations again.

Viking cruises I looked at where like 4K for a person for 8 days or something, way way out of target range for my family of 4 : ) Now maybe something like a US cruise you can get for 300 bucks for 3 days or something like that would be good. Dunno if that exists.

RV is interesting idea, I dunno if I am ready for that. I have thought about trying it in the states, go see mt rushmore, blow by a bunch of things like that in a day or two. But even then, for whatever reason, am a bit leery of it. A lot of time, I dont think you can bring the RV into the park area, then you have to like tow a car with the RV, and such things like that? I think yellowstone didnt allow RVs in a lot of places that I drove to in the car.... I have not looked into it hard though, its a good idea.

yeah in terms of countries, I can go anywhere that is

1)interesting
2)cheap

plus maybe an expensive place or two, like Geneva or whatever.

So Car, apartment rental, sound like definite s for now.... Then nail down some places, maybe find a cheap cruise.

thanks again, great responses.

LH

[halfnine]

So Car, apartment rental, sound like definite s for now.... Then nail down some places, maybe find a cheap cruise.
LH

There are really two ways to travel Europe:
1. spend time in the major cities and travel via public transport (long distances certainly plausible in short time frame)
2. spend time outside of the major cities, rent a car, and explore a region (long distances not plausible in short time frame)

The two really do not overlap, it is really an either/or. But you certainly can do one than the other. For instance with 10 days, you could rent a car spending 7 days traveling through the northwest of France (Normandy/Loire Valley). Then return the car and spend the last 3 days in Paris. But that is about it in that time frame.

[traveltoomuch]

I normally recommend priceline for hotels, but they only guarantee a double-occupancy room. In Europe, that's likely all you'll get. Renting apartments is likely the better path.

I concur with the last post: decide if you're going to do cities or not-cities. You don't want a car in Paris, Amsterdam, or pretty much any other European city, even if you decide to drive between the cities. A car would be lovely for anything just outside Paris or beyond (e.g. Vaux-le-Vicomte, suggested earlier, which is miserable to get to on transit). Hotels outside the cities are also cheaper, as might be expected: I stayed at an Ibis near Vaux-le-Vicomte for about EUR40.

It might be worth checking calendars for festivals and other seasonal draws. On a lark, I went to a music festival in Belgium one summer. It was a lovely experience, arguably suitable for children(!), and would have been much easier with a car than by train.

The Bayern-ticket mentioned earlier is a great value, especially since it also gets you to Salzburg. I used one to go from Munich to Salzburg and back to Berchtesgaden to see Hitler's Eagles Nest. The downside: it assumes you've gotten yourselves to Bavaria but still want to use transit; it's probably not the right thing for this trip. Even so, consider a road trip through southern Germany: see King Ludwig's castles, etc.

[Peter Foley]

We have used VRBO a fews times and have been pleased. Our first time was in Paris. For a family this makes a lot of sense.

Travel takes time. Unless you are thinking of flying to some of the recommended destinations outside of France, you will spend too much of your vacation on the move. The TGV is not cheap, especially for a family of 4.

[BillyG]

Last summer we went to Spain with the kids (ages 14 and 12 then). It is not too hot if you compare it to summer travel in the U.S. If you go to the Mediterranean or Atlantic or mountains it is downright pleasant, especially if Disneyworld is the comparison. We rented a car. The roads and drivers in Spain are far better than you will find in the US.

Tripadvisor is your friend.

The kids will remember it -- our kids vividly remember trips to Korea and Thailand when they were younger than yours.

Spain and Portugal are inexpensive places in Europe to travel (except for Barcelona). Great food and wine at great prices. Did I mention the inexpensive nice wine?

I agree with not moving around too much. Pick an area and explore. Every day is an adventure for the kids and if you look at the world through their eyes it will be a great adventure for you as well. Those days where you just go to the beach and eat at the local restaurant instead of hitting the tourist sites will be some of the best days of your journey. Intersperse some train trips or boat trips and your kids will love that. High speed rail is great for day trips. From Madrid you can go to Segovia for the day... or Toledo... or other places. The same is true for many other European cities.

Enjoy the road trips before they start plugging in their iPods and shutting you out!

Billy

[sddiehard]

If not already mentioned, check out Rick Steves... http://www.ricksteves.com. His travel books are excellent as well as other info on the website.

Paul

[market timer]

For international travel for a young family on a seemingly tight budget (standby, really?), I'd recommend Costa Rica instead of Europe. Europe will be crowded and expensive in most of the capital cities.

[stan1]

Out of curiosity: how much are you saving by booking standby tickets?

Seems like you could find yourself in a situation where you book an apartment rental at a weekly rate, but have to pay for unused nights if you are 2 or 3 days late arriving in Europe. Likewise, you could find yourself having to spend extra nights near the Paris airport if it takes you 2 or 3 days to return home It does seem there could be plenty of scenarios where any savings would be lost.

I don't think standby air travel to Europe in the summer months is a good way to lower the cost. It's too risky for the reward (especially if you don't have frequent flier status to get you to the top of the standby queue). Stay in less expensive locations away from the central cities, eat less expensive meals (grocery store instead of restaurants), and visit less expensive/free attractions such as parks.

[retired recently]

For international travel for a young family on a seemingly tight budget (standby, really?), I'd recommend Costa Rica instead of Europe. Europe will be crowded and expensive in most of the capital cities.

I have traveled a good bit in Europe and just returned from Costa Rica. Very different experiences, not really interchangeable.

Costa Rica is worth a short visit for the nature and beaches but I felt it was way overpriced for what they have to offer. Ofcourse, you will save on the airfare I would think.

Hard to go wrong in Europe from where I have been. Seems it depends on what you and your daughters are interested in seeing most? I definitely would not go to EuroDisney. Croatia is a great county to visit in Europe but I have not been in about 5 years so it may be quite expensive now. There are so many islands to visit and the Istrian Peninsula, Plitvice Lakes...Dubrovnik...short drive into Montenegro...

Germany is great. Hard to go wrong in Europe.

As others have mentioned, the timing of your trip is not great as there will be many others vacationing too, including the Europeans. I think picking one country/area and really exploring it may be best.

[jon-nyc]

If you live in a desirable area you may consider Homeexchange.com or one of the similar sites. We have had no trouble exchanging our NY apartment for similar places in Europe and have saved a fortune doing so.

[Juniormint]

Can anyone point me towards sites geared to planning a trip abroad? I'm planning on going to Ireland this December and really don't know where or how to start planning.

[Duckie]

Can anyone point me towards sites geared to planning a trip abroad? I'm planning on going to Ireland this December and really don't know where or how to start planning.

Frommer's
Fodor's
Rick Steves

[Steelersfan]

Can anyone point me towards sites geared to planning a trip abroad? I'm planning on going to Ireland this December and really don't know where or how to start planning.

If you're interested in more basic (cheap) travel,these sites may be to your liking:

http://www.eurotrip.com/search/node/ireland

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forum.jspa?forumID=25&keywordid=127