Any Minimalists on here?

[hoppy08520]

When I need to microwave something for 20 seconds, I do it for 22 seconds instead - so that I move my finger one less time.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who does this!

Same here! This forum is the first time I've encountered another one who does this too.

[linguini]

I'm not a minimalist. The total amount of non-essential spending I do is quite small compared to my income because I don't have expensive tastes and I keep an eye on total spending, but I revel in buying and consuming things: food, games, electronics, travel, books, appliances, entertainment, theater, concerts, you name it. I don't feel any guilt or shame about my consumption habits. I feel no compulsion to stop spending on the activities and things that I enjoy. I find that my consumption habits are mentally and socially stimulating, and often intrinsically exciting because I get to try out new things.

It's not for everyone, but it's the type of lifestyle I prefer.

[Dave76]

Perhaps it would be best to define the term. Is a Minimalist someone who only consumes 'essential' goods and services?

[legion]

hey I am a minimalist or at least strive to be, thanks for this thread I had no idea I was one!

[Alex Frakt]

I think it's an idea more than a label. Not confining. A little different than some of my vegan friends...

I agree. Sometimes if you say [label yourself as] you are a whatever - stoic, minimalist, etc. others infer certain attributes which may or may not apply. I try to steer-clear of that.

Boglehead?

[Alex Frakt]

I don't think many minimalists would be using a computer and internet connection to post on a web forum.

AFAIK, minimalism does not equal asceticism. Anyway, a laptop + network connection allows the aspiring minimalist to do without a TV, radio, file cabinet full of important papers, home phone, newspaper/magazine/catalog delivery and reference books, including cookbooks.

[black jack]

I suspect the word "minimalist" is a synonym for "frugal" on this post. Well i have proof that i am a minimalist as my wife uses another synonym......"cheap".

Reminds me of a lunch I had a few years ago with a group of Bogleheads. I was relatively new to the group and one guy was completely new. After listening to the others describe their frugal ways, I thought, "This is my group, my kind of people." The new guy called us a "bunch of cheapskates" and I never saw him again.

Bogleheads could probably make communism work. Wouldn't that be something?

OTOH, Bogleheads might not be able to make the US economy (driven primarily by consumer spending) work. Wouldn't that be something?

[happymob]

Too many books. OK, 10-year-old travel books really should go. Much of the fictions could go. Non-fiction we won't possibly read again... should go. Surely, I can get public domain (and therefore digital) books to replace my math books. Gardening books will stay. Cookbooks will stay (despite using the Internet for recipes as often as the cookbooks). Computer science library will stay (though I could pare it down some, but you'll have to pull Code Complete from my cold dead hands). Yeah, we could probably cut the size of our house in half without causing any major issues.

Quick edit - along with "books", the other category where we are clearly out-of-whack compared to a "normal" family is kitchen stuff. Do we really need the fondue pots? The double boiler does get used, but is it critical? How many saute pans does a family really need? Is 1 enough? 2? 4 seems excessive. But all 4 do get used in our non-minimalist household.

[stemikger]

I'm a Minimalist wanabe. My wife and daughter? Not so much. I think simplicity is underrated, not only in investing, but life in general.

Norris

+1000 I posted this before I saw what you wrote. It was almost word for word.

I am a man of very little needs and/or wants. My wife has about 200 pairs of shows but yet everytime we have an affair to go she has to run out to DSW because she says she has no shoes to wear. And God forbid I mention that to her and we have a fight. I on the other hand have two pairs of shows brown and black and a pair of sneakers.

[Fallible]

Perhaps it would be best to define the term. Is a Minimalist someone who only consumes 'essential' goods and services?

The definition(s) has (have) many applications so it's best to check the dictionary (-ies). In other words, its meaning, at least to me, is somewhat elusive and not always easy to apply. But here's what it means most to me: "Being or providing a bare minimum of what is necessary." What's necessary to me is what's essential, what's truly important. Ironic that a word meaning simple isn't.

[climber2020]

An article from today that discusses this topic:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/opini ... d=all&_r=0

[trudy]

I'm getting rid of more and more stuff as I get older. It only takes being an executor or watching someone else being an executor and, after charitable donations or recycling things, having three dumpsters of her Mom's stuff taken away to decide not to do that to your survivors.

It does take a few cycles of going through stuff to really pare things down.

[Fallible]

Yes

Clever, and I just realized there are times when a period is not needed

[VictoriaF]

I'm getting rid of more and more stuff as I get older. It only takes being an executor or watching someone else being an executor and, after charitable donations or recycling things, having three dumpsters of her Mom's stuff taken away to decide not to do that to your survivors.

It does take a few cycles of going through stuff to really pare things down.

On the other hand, it is emotionally much easier for the survivors to get rid of someone's junk than for the owner herself. If the goal is to minimize misery, why not to delegate the disposal to the executors?

Victoria

[VictoriaF]

.

[trudy]

Too many books. OK, 10-year-old travel books really should go. Much of the fictions could go. Non-fiction we won't possibly read again... should go.

You may know this already, but libraries often take used books to sell at book sales and get money to buy new books. Also flea markets or thrift stores run by local charitable groups may take them. Paperbacks can, of course, also go into recycling.

For getting rid of other stuff, freecycle works fairly well. Be prepared for people to not show up. Or things put next to the street with a Free sign on them disappear quickly in most places.

[VictoriaF]

Yes

Clever, and I just realized there are times when a period is not needed

Or a period is all it takes {cryptic observation}

Victoria

[trudy]

I'm getting rid of more and more stuff as I get older. It only takes being an executor or watching someone else being an executor and, after charitable donations or recycling things, having three dumpsters of her Mom's stuff taken away to decide not to do that to your survivors.

It does take a few cycles of going through stuff to really pare things down.

On the other hand, it is emotionally much easier for the survivors to get rid of someone's junk than for the owner herself. If the goal is to minimize misery, why not to delegate the disposal to the executors?

Victoria

No, the opposite I think. "Gosh, this was Mom's how can I throw it out." When I think about throwing out my own stuff, I use the "flood rule." Some years ago there was a smallish flood where I lived that ruined stuff in a storage room. Now I saw, if this were ruined, would I care? No - out it goes.

I'm not saying I don't keep stuff of no value to anyone but me. Term papers from college, for example. But at least I put them in labeled boxes or clearly on a bookshelf so they'll be easy for those left behind to throw out without sorting through them.

Just be careful not to throw out stuff like family photos. My Mom (who was not a hoarder) threw out or gave away things from my great granddad's bottling company, including a wooden case of bottles. Agh. I have managed to get quite a few bottles from ebay saved searches, but no wooden case. It's amazing what turns up on ebay. Who would save and put up for sale a bunch of postcards from a bottling company? Someone did, thank you.

[Fallible]

Yes

Clever, and I just realized there are times when a period is not needed

Or a period is all it takes {cryptic observation}

Victoria

Minimalism at its best (least)

[retiredjg]

On the other hand, it is emotionally much easier for the survivors to get rid of someone's junk than for the owner herself.

This door swings both ways.

While I believe what you said is true, I also believe the opposite is true. Sometimes the survivors just can't part with what amounts to a lot of junk...because it belonged to a loved one.

[whatever]

I don't think many minimalists would be using a computer and internet connection to post on a web forum.


Brian

Unless they walked to their local library.

[czeckers]

I'm a minimalist at heart but all those kids keep getting in the way.

-K

[rodfatherjr]

Yes...

x2

[p14175]

I was looking to buy a pair of minimalist shoes, but they cost too much. I settled for a pair of generic (very inexpensive) water shoes from a well-known big box retailer instead. They are exactly what I wanted.

[papito23]

Too many books. OK, 10-year-old travel books really should go. Much of the fictions could go. Non-fiction we won't possibly read again... should go.

You may know this already, but libraries often take used books to sell at book sales and get money to buy new books. Also flea markets or thrift stores run by local charitable groups may take them. Paperbacks can, of course, also go into recycling.

For getting rid of other stuff, freecycle works fairly well. Be prepared for people to not show up. Or things put next to the street with a Free sign on them disappear quickly in most places.

I've used www.PaperBackSwap.com to keep hundreds of new (to me) books circulating through my library without expanding shelves. Only costs as much as a media mail shipment each.

[CyberBob]

I don't think many minimalists would be using a computer and internet connection to post on a web forum.

As Alex mentioned above, minimalism doesn't equal asceticism. Digital technology goes a long way in helping one to have less physical 'stuff'. Check out the article Cult of less: Living out of a hard drive.

Bob

[letsgobobby]

I realize that it is a word that could easily convey frugal or otherwise. But, I have been reading a lot regrading this way of life and find it fascination. Not so much for my wife and kids.

And therein lies the rub.

[Mrs.Feeley]

My Mom (who was not a hoarder) threw out or gave away things from my great granddad's bottling company, including a wooden case of bottles. Agh. I have managed to get quite a few bottles from ebay saved searches, but no wooden case. It's amazing what turns up on ebay. Who would save and put up for sale a bunch of postcards from a bottling company? Someone did, thank you.

Umm... What was the name of that bottling company? My dad worked for a distributor and at one point drove a truck for a bottling company. I still have a few wooden crates in the garage filled with holiday lights. I'm trying, really trying to become a minimalist. Honest! But it's really hard when you're a homeowner.

[BBL]

I think it's an idea more than a label. Not confining. A little different than some of my vegan friends...

I agree. Sometimes if you say [label yourself as] you are a whatever - stoic, minimalist, etc. others infer certain attributes which may or may not apply. I try to steer-clear of that.

Boglehead?

Boglehead. Such a great term. The beauty of it is that I can't use it in the real world because I don't know anyone that would know what it means. I have just as little need to refer to myself as a Boglehead here because it would seem obvious and redundant. Problem solved.

[Curlyq]

When I lived in Europe, I remember a French person telling me that Americans will take $200 and buy 10 cheap $20 sweaters, which will not fit well and will all look terrible after one or two washings (think Walmart), while a European will buy one quality $200 sweater and wear it for many years (think designer cashmere). That has stuck with me and may help define minimalism. As for consumerism, the same amount, $200 is being spent, but in a very different way.

[snodog]

When I need to microwave something for 20 seconds, I do it for 22 seconds instead - so that I move my finger one less time.

Ha ha ha, I thought I was the only one who did this!!

I also use a hand towel to dry off after taking a shower because a regular towel is way too much towel.

Wife thinks I'm weird on both accounts.

[The Wizard]

I'm definitely not a minimalist.
I have lots of STUFF, more than average, I'm sure.
Much of my accumulation has been well used and/or continues to be used.
Or is held in reserve in case the need for its use arises again.
Some stuff, like my wall-mounted turntable from back in the 70's, I just look at and smile, knowing it will likely never be used again...

[Default User BR]

When I need to microwave something for 20 seconds, I do it for 22 seconds instead - so that I move my finger one less time.

Ha ha ha, I thought I was the only one who did this!!

I picked that up from Donovan Jon Fandre, who used to have a microwave cooking show on PBS way back when.


Brian

[ryuns]

I was looking to buy a pair of minimalist shoes, but they cost too much. I settled for a pair of generic (very inexpensive) water shoes from a well-known big box retailer instead. They are exactly what I wanted.

Good recommendation. I found a good article about zero-drop/minimalist shoes on a budget and they had a few water shoe recommendations. Glad it's working for you. Some of it depends on the type of use, because some of the water shoes (along with Converse all stars, which also get recommended as minimalist shoes) can fall apart pretty quickly if you're using them for running, weight lifting, and whatever else. Good option, especially for people whose feet aren't ready for 100% minimalism, is trying to snag a pair of indoor soccer shoes from an Adidas outlet. Still pretty pricey though.

[VictoriaF]

I've been thinking that the concept of minimalism contains an internal contradiction. Keeping everything at the minimum requires nontrivial effort. But nontrivial effort is non-minimal effort, and thus to be a minimalist one can't behave minimally.

Now, a maximalist is a different story: maximum effort for maximum everything.

Victoria

[BHCadet]

Just throw away the lawn chairs and stool in the front porch.
The clutters are gone and we feel much better.

[Fallible]

I've been thinking that the concept of minimalism contains an internal contradiction. Keeping everything at the minimum requires nontrivial effort. But nontrivial effort is non-minimal effort, and thus to be a minimalist one can't behave minimally.

Now, a maximalist is a different story: maximum effort for maximum everything.

Victoria

But if a minimalist can't behave minimally, how is it that you, a minimalist I think, could produce the most minimalistic post on this thread: a period? Just one beautiful little .

Even if minimalism takes some effort, what a delightful effort it is to recognize true essence and strip away the nonessentials. I also suspect true minimalists are born to prefer the least, though they may have to learn to recognize true essence in all things. Can you remember as a child saying or thinking something like, "This is all I need to do that. I don't need all that other stuff"? (This of course usually requires that you have a goal and know the best way to get there.) Or did you enjoy learning what nonessentials were and then almost gleefully stripping them away? Or sometimes knowing essence is intuitive, you just sense it, or at least you can see what is nonessential, allowing you to get to the essential.

And yet you're right about the nontrivial (not the math/engineering kind, right?) effort If you apply minimalism to writing, in which case you would write concisely, succinctly, making every word count. You would, as Will Strunk said in The Elements of Style, "Omit needless words." Experienced writers know that writing long is often easier, lazy writing; writing tight takes more mental effort. But isn't it worth it?

[Flashes1]

No I'm not a minimalist, but my wife and I unload things as we no longer use them. We just built a 5,200 square ft house though and have filled it with beautiful things----and I'm in process of installing a putting green in the backyard with a huge fire pit and outdoor grilling area. My wife and I were cheap for many years....then 2008 comes and we lose 50% of our net worth overnight.....it made us realize that we should enjoy some of the nicer things in life. We are very happy with our decision.

[VictoriaF]

I've been thinking that the concept of minimalism contains an internal contradiction. Keeping everything at the minimum requires nontrivial effort. But nontrivial effort is non-minimal effort, and thus to be a minimalist one can't behave minimally.

Now, a maximalist is a different story: maximum effort for maximum everything.

Victoria

But if a minimalist can't behave minimally, how is it that you, a minimalist I think, could produce the most minimalistic post on this thread: a period? Just one beautiful little .

Hi Fallible,

My point (smile) was that creating one beautiful minimalist point took non-minimal amount of thinking and experimentation.

Even if minimalism takes some effort, what a delightful effort it is to recognize true essence and strip away the nonessentials. I also suspect true minimalists are born to prefer the least, though they may have to learn to recognize true essence in all things. Can you remember as a child saying or thinking something like, "This is all I need to do that. I don't need all that other stuff"? (This of course usually requires that you have a goal and know the best way to get there.) Or did you enjoy learning what nonessentials were and then almost gleefully stripping them away? Or sometimes knowing essence is intuitive, you just sense it, or at least you can see what is nonessential, allowing you to get to the essential.

The minimal outcome can be quite elegant, even beautiful. Stripping stuff away is a liberating experience. But a liberating or rewarding experience is not necessarily a minimal experience, in fact, it seldom is. And why would we want to shortcut pleasurable experiences?

And yet you're right about the nontrivial (not the math/engineering kind, right?) effort If you apply minimalism to writing, in which case you would write concisely, succinctly, making every word count. You would, as Will Strunk said in The Elements of Style, "Omit needless words." Experienced writers know that writing long is often easier, lazy writing; writing tight takes more mental effort. But isn't it worth it?

You hit the nail on the head! Writing is the best example I know where less is more, but getting to less takes more work, much much more work.

Do you remember Ariely's examples of the endowment effect where students valued their mugs more than identical mugs at the university shop (test and control groups of students, respectively)? I think we also experience a strong endowment effect with the words we put on the page. As soon as we have thought of something, as soon as we have written or typed it, it becomes ours and thus very difficult to let go. Someone should write a dissertation about it.

Victoria

[Norris]

I'm a Minimalist wanabe. My wife and daughter? Not so much. I think simplicity is underrated, not only in investing, but life in general.

Norris

+1000 I posted this before I saw what you wrote. It was almost word for word.

I am a man of very little needs and/or wants. My wife has about 200 pairs of shows but yet everytime we have an affair to go she has to run out to DSW because she says she has no shoes to wear. And God forbid I mention that to her and we have a fight. I on the other hand have two pairs of shows brown and black and a pair of sneakers.

LOL I can identify! Marriage is not only a commitment, it's a compromise.

Norris

[Fallible]

...

And yet you're right about the nontrivial (not the math/engineering kind, right?) effort If you apply minimalism to writing, in which case you would write concisely, succinctly, making every word count. You would, as Will Strunk said in The Elements of Style, "Omit needless words." Experienced writers know that writing long is often easier, lazy writing; writing tight takes more mental effort. But isn't it worth it?

You hit the nail on the head! Writing is the best example I know where less is more, but getting to less takes more work, much much more work.

Do you remember Ariely's examples of the endowment effect where students valued their mugs more than identical mugs at the university shop (test and control groups of students, respectively)? I think we also experience a strong endowment effect with the words we put on the page. As soon as we have thought of something, as soon as we have written or typed it, it becomes ours and thus very difficult to let go. Someone should write a dissertation about it. ...

Hi Victoria,

Yes, the endowment effect is a perfect example! (I love seeing the social experiments, especially from Ariely, Kahneman, etc., applied to everyday life.) It's very nearly impossible to let go of what is ours and I know I've fought hard to keep even just a phrase I thought was good, only to realize later it wasn't really that good. But you're an experienced and excellent writer, why not do that dissertation?

Fallible

[Norris]

I am an aspirational minimalist.

I'd like to get there, but it will take some work.

I am ever mindful of Emerson's observation: "Things are in the saddle, / And ride mankind."

Lev

Good quote. I also like Thoreau's "A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone".

Norris

[jridger2011]

Being a minimalist also requires someone to part with stuff they no longer find useful. The hoarder/overly frugal types have a difficult time with that, since they spent X dollars on something, no matter how long they have used it, or even if it is no longer in use, it's still worth that much in their minds and it is difficult to get rid of it. I am certain people who have done estate cleans have found broken vcr's, rusted tea kettles, etc. the person never threw out because they spent good money on it.

Being a minimalist requires some discipline to walk away from things that are nice to have, but really not necessary for day to day living or maximum happiness. I am not a minimalist but I try to look at everything with the idea in mind that I will throw it away at some point or delete it, if it is a digital product.