is window 8 good ??

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
looking
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: morgan hill ,ca

is window 8 good ??

Post by looking »

is window 8 is best of all - I bought dell i5 with window 8 but i'm not sure I like e or not otherwise I can return or can i just install XP
jwa
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:53 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by jwa »

looking, this is the investing forum. You might have better luck getting an answer to your question in the consumers forum.
Topic Author
looking
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: morgan hill ,ca

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by looking »

where I can find consumer forum
User avatar
Rob5TCP
Posts: 3812
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:34 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Rob5TCP »

I am advising my clients to get Windows 7 (with XP mode if they have any very old legacy software).
Getting XP is not the answer. Within a year, all updates for XP will be finished. That will make the system much more vulnerable
to virus/malware attacks.

So, if you decide to "downgrade" 7 would be the better choice.
Contact Dell, they might sell you a disk at a very reasonable price.
I am not enthralled with Windows 8, but might become so as updates are available.
There are add-ons, which I have not yet investigated, which give it more of a Windows 7 look and feel.
Last edited by Rob5TCP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Toons
Posts: 14467
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Toons »

looking wrote:where I can find consumer forum
:happy


http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=11
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
User avatar
Jay69
Posts: 1801
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Jay69 »

Rob5TCP wrote:I am advising my clients to get Windows 7 (with XP mode if they have any very old legacy software).
Getting XP is not the answer. Within a year, all updates for XP will be finished. That will make the system much more vulnerable
to virus/malware attacks.

So, if you decide to "downgrade" 7 would be the better choice.
Contact Dell, they might sell you a disk at a very reasonable price.
I am not enthralled with Windows 8, but might become so as updates are available.
There are add-ons, which I have not yet investigated, which give it more of a Windows 7 look and feel.
This
"Out of clutter, find simplicity” Albert Einstein
Beantown85
Posts: 1264
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:11 am

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Beantown85 »

Nope.
billern
Posts: 1079
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:08 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by billern »

looking wrote:is window 8 is best of all - I bought dell i5 with window 8 but i'm not sure I like e or not otherwise I can return or can i just install XP
I have very little experience (just got a Windows 8 laptop a couple days ago) but my understanding is that the actual OS is an improvement over Windows 7 (which IMHO was much better than XP). If you don't like the stupid home screen stuff, there are programs out there that give you back your start menu.

There was good article on Arstechnica about the start menu options: http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... tart-menu/
I'm trying StartIsBack (which has a free one month trial version) and it is great.
bourg
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:26 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by bourg »

I've been using Windows 8 since the MSDN early release. Its fine if you are getting a touch device or a touch/type hybrid device. If your device has no touch capabilities, you'll be fighting with Windows 8 more then having it help you and Windows 7 is the better option. I agree there is no reason to install XP anymore as 7 is an excellent OS.

I use Windows 8 almost entirely in Desktop mode since my device is not touch enabled.
User avatar
Toons
Posts: 14467
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Toons »

"If you don't like the stupid home screen stuff, there are programs out there that give you back your start menu.'

Thanks for the info, every time I wander into Best Buy to tinker with the Win8 laptops , I find myself
becoming annoyed with the Home Screen,doesn't appear to lend itself to simplicitiy :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
EagertoLearnMore
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:05 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by EagertoLearnMore »

Windows 8 uses "tiles" instead of icons. You can download free programs to bring back the "start" menu of windows 7 or you can use toggle keys:

Windows Key + D = Desktop
Windows Key + X = Programs
Windows Key + C = Charms (new word meaning icons on the far right side of screen which include settings, search,etc.) Usually hidden unless you scroll over it.

Hope this helps.
Last edited by EagertoLearnMore on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
paulsiu
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:46 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by paulsiu »

The answer to that question depends on you. I have windows 8 on two of my machine. Neither my wife nor I mind the interface, but in my opinion, the tiles are not all that useful. If you launch anything that launches a tile while you are in desktop, you end up in tile mode. This is not good if you want that window side to side on your desktop.

As for the OS, there really isn't all that big of an improvement form Windows 7 to windows 8, so if you have windows 7, I wouldn't bother upgrading unless you have a touch screen. Conversely , if you have windows 8, it's not worth downgrading to 7 unless you really hate the tiles.

Paul
serocs
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by serocs »

This article describes my feelings about Windows 8 exactly. I am a techie and love trying new software, but the longer I have used Windows 8 (about two months full time at this point) the more I feel like I am constantly searching for things. Things that used to be one or two clicks in Windows 7 have increased to three or four.

But PLEASE don't install Windows XP on it. It is one of the most insecure OSes out there, meaning it takes ~2 minutes for an unpatched XP system to get infected when connected to the internet. I.e., before you can patch it, it is already infected. Windows 7 is really the way to go.
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by abuss368 »

And this is the reason why I am strongly considering a MacBook Air for our next computer. The iPad and iPhones are so easy and simple to use.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
Toons
Posts: 14467
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Toons »

serocs wrote:This article describes my feelings about Windows 8 exactly. I am a techie and love trying new software, but the longer I have used Windows 8 (about two months full time at this point) the more I feel like I am constantly searching for things. Things that used to be one or two clicks in Windows 7 have increased to three or four.

But PLEASE don't install Windows XP on it. It is one of the most insecure OSes out there, meaning it takes ~2 minutes for an unpatched XP system to get infected when connected to the internet. I.e., before you can patch it, it is already infected. Windows 7 is really the way to go.

Very insightful article,it was valuable in my decision making process as to whether to purchase Win8 or not,,,,,looks like NOT for the time being :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
patrick
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Mega-City One

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by patrick »

serocs wrote:But PLEASE don't install Windows XP on it. It is one of the most insecure OSes out there, meaning it takes ~2 minutes for an unpatched XP system to get infected when connected to the internet. I.e., before you can patch it, it is already infected. Windows 7 is really the way to go.
Can you point a source for this? I've seen a couple of them, but it in every one I have read, the simulated victim machine didn't even have SP2 installed. Later copieds of Windows XP would have this included in the initial install (without having to download it) and so would be much safer (as the built in firewall by default prevents the attacker from connecting). Furthermore, you'd only be vulnerable if, unlike common home networks today, you didn't have a hardware NAT/router on your connection.

There are good reasons not to use Windows XP but this isn't one of them. The #1 way to get your computer infected is for the user to deliberately run the malware without realizing that it's harmful. The #2 way to get infected is through application exploits (Java, etc.) on the web sites you visit. Unfortunately, for either of these it doesn't really matter which OS you choose.
User avatar
mike143
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by mike143 »

I tried it and went back to Windows 7. I am still betting this is a mistake for Microsoft and the next version will be vastly different. There were some technical aspects that I did enjoy but they were not enough for the horrible user interface. I am still dumbfounded that they forced the Metro interface on the server version.
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.
User avatar
Jerilynn
Posts: 1929
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: USA, Earth

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Jerilynn »

I got a new laptop 3 weeks ago with windows 8. I just got a new PC today (finally) with Win 7. Can't really tell much difference between either of those or win XP. Meh.

The sucker I am using right now is BLAZING fast.
Cordially, Jeri . . . 100% all natural asset allocation. (no supernatural methods used)
vv19
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:56 am

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by vv19 »

Got a new laptop a week ago with windows 8 and I have got used to it now. Takes some time but it's not at all as bad as some people think it is. If you don't like all those pre-installed apps, you can delete them and keep your start screen clean. Plus side is, it's amazingly fast and extremely responsive.
serocs
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by serocs »

patrick, most likely you have seen the same sources as I have for this. You are correct that a patched version of XP is much more secure than an unpatched XP (where the numbers are drawn from). I didn't go into details because most people just want a computer to work and aren't as concerned about the details.

But since you seem interested in the details, here are some facts about why Windows XP is still more insecure than Windows 7:

1. Windows XP requires security patches at a faster rate than Windows 7, implying it is less secure overall. This is based on 2009 data, so it may not be as relevant any more. I wasn't able to find an update to the news article and didn't feel like crawling through the Microsoft patch data.

2. Windows XP is more likely to be infected by malware than Windows 7, even if patched. See this Microsoft report for more details: link

3. Windows 7 is built with security features that are unavailable in Windows XP making exploits much harder to create. In particular, ASLR, PatchGuard, and ProtectedModeInternetExplorer all make the platform significantly more secure than Windows XP. This article has a good summary of these features.

So yes, there are a multitude of reasons to not install XP (the big one being the EOL if 2014), but XP IS less secure than Windows 7, no matter how you look at it. My point is that your #1 and #2 ways to get malware are probably accurate, but XP is still more likely than other (currently supported) Windows operating systems to be infected.
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:44 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by chaz »

Windows 7 is an excellent OS IMO
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
OAG
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:54 am
Location: Currently Central Ohio, USA

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by OAG »

EagertoLearnMore wrote:Windows 8 uses "tiles" instead of icons. You can download free programs to bring back the "start" menu of windows 7 or you can use toggle keys:

Ctrl + D = Desktop
Ctrl + X = Programs
Ctrl + C = Charms (new word meaning icons on the far right side of screen which include settings, search,etc.) Usually hidden unless you scroll over it.

Hope this helps.
I think you mean "Windows Key" + D, X, C, Etc.,

There have been 48 updates to Windows 8 (only the Windows 8 program excludes all definition update and other programs) since Nov 3, 2012, when I installed the OS on one Desktop and one Notebook. IMO program is fine and works as advertised. The Desktop is 4 years old and takes 25 seconds to "boot" and the Notebook is a Sandy Bridge Machine and takes 14 seconds to "boot" - much faster than Window 7 was on either machine. BTW however I have SSD's on both machines so hard to compare to a machine with a conventional Hard Disk.
Last edited by OAG on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OAG=Old Army Guy. Retired CW4 USA (US Army) in 1979 21 years of service @ 38.
User avatar
Toons
Posts: 14467
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Toons »

chaz wrote:Windows 7 is an excellent OS IMO

+1 More than satisfied with Win7 :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
EagertoLearnMore
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:05 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by EagertoLearnMore »

OAG - Thanks. Yes, I meant to type Windows Key and got sidetracked. I fixed it with an edit.

I still prefer Windows 7, but with the shortcuts and free "start" menu it is bearable. I also turned OFF the live tiles which I found annoying.
Confused
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:23 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Confused »

[Blanked for privacy]
Last edited by Confused on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
flamtap
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by flamtap »

abuss368 wrote:And this is the reason why I am strongly considering a MacBook Air for our next computer. The iPad and iPhones are so easy and simple to use.
Good point! Does anyone "Vanguard" with an iPad? If so, do you go to the site or do you use the app.?

Don't mean to hijack the thread. I manage about 100 computers as part of my job. We're sticking with 7 for now. But I'm on the fence as to whether I should get an Air or an iPad for personal use. I find it takes a lot of willpower to maintain Boglehead status in an Apple store.
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:44 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by chaz »

flamtap wrote:
abuss368 wrote:And this is the reason why I am strongly considering a MacBook Air for our next computer. The iPad and iPhones are so easy and simple to use.
Good point! Does anyone "Vanguard" with an iPad? If so, do you go to the site or do you use the app.?

Don't mean to hijack the thread. I manage about 100 computers as part of my job. We're sticking with 7 for now. But I'm on the fence as to whether I should get an Air or an iPad for personal use. I find it takes a lot of willpower to maintain Boglehead status in an Apple store.
I use the app - is going to the site better?
Last edited by chaz on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
dm200
Posts: 23214
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: Washington DC area

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by dm200 »

I needed to replace/upgrade two Windows XP Professional Dell computers several months ago. I run a critical "niche" software system and did NOT want to be on the "bleeding edge" of Microsoft Operating systems. So, I bought one Dell (new) with Windows 7 and another (refurbished) with Windows 7. I bought refurbished because that Dell model did not come (new) with anything but Windows 8.
User avatar
mike143
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by mike143 »

dm200 wrote:I needed to replace/upgrade two Windows XP Professional Dell computers several months ago. I run a critical "niche" software system and did NOT want to be on the "bleeding edge" of Microsoft Operating systems. So, I bought one Dell (new) with Windows 7 and another (refurbished) with Windows 7. I bought refurbished because that Dell model did not come (new) with anything but Windows 8.
They do on the Small Business side. Anyone can order from the Small Business side, they only ask for a business name and you can just put your name again.

Edit: Just check the Home side, it also has a selection for just machines with Windows 7.
Image
Image
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.
gd
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:35 am
Location: MA, USA

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by gd »

This morning got a notice that my hotmail account is coverting to some new format, which, judging from some fluff in the message, has a tile-like look. Got me thinking... My iPad is a nice, limited, internet appliance. It turns out it can't do a bunch of things I need and want. But most curious is that several sites are horrible on it, e.g. USA Today, which used to be a good way to pick up standard wire service stories, and Barry Ritholtz's blog, ironic because he's a kneejerk Apple fanboy. They sniff mobile devices, and present tiled displays-- and they're awful. Colorful and inventive, but with a minimum of actual useful information per tile-- Ritholtz particularly. Inadequate snippits of text, useless snippits of picture, confusing behavior. It reminds me of the way people would compulsively overlay windows 20 years ago, even when a tiled approach was a better presentation. Or the way all electronics cases are shiny black plastic that has a supernatural attraction to dust and glare. Or the way web sites in mid-90s always had a black background, usually with unreadable colored text. They stopped because it didn't work-- but it didn't work in the very first one, either. Long rant to say-- W8-style overuse of tiles is a fad, in 5-10 years they'll be replaced by the next trend and relegated to somewhat useful niches. I hope my desktop lasts another 5-10 years.
User avatar
mike143
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by mike143 »

gd wrote:This morning got a notice that my hotmail account is coverting to some new format, which, judging from some fluff in the message, has a tile-like look. Got me thinking... My iPad is a nice, limited, internet appliance. It turns out it can't do a bunch of things I need and want. But most curious is that several sites are horrible on it, e.g. USA Today, which used to be a good way to pick up standard wire service stories, and Barry Ritholtz's blog, ironic because he's a kneejerk Apple fanboy. They sniff mobile devices, and present tiled displays-- and they're awful. Colorful and inventive, but with a minimum of actual useful information per tile-- Ritholtz particularly. Inadequate snippits of text, useless snippits of picture, confusing behavior. It reminds me of the way people would compulsively overlay windows 20 years ago, even when a tiled approach was a better presentation. Or the way all electronics cases are shiny black plastic that has a supernatural attraction to dust and glare. Or the way web sites in mid-90s always had a black background, usually with unreadable colored text. They stopped because it didn't work-- but it didn't work in the very first one, either. Long rant to say-- W8-style overuse of tiles is a fad, in 5-10 years they'll be replaced by the next trend and relegated to somewhat useful niches. I hope my desktop lasts another 5-10 years.
I don't know if they do it on iDevices, you may have to jailbreak but on Android most browsers you can set it to present itself as a desktop browsers to websites so you get the desktop version.

Here is an iOS browser that has the ability to present itself as a desktop browser: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/diigo-b ... 38105?mt=8
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.
vv19
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:56 am

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by vv19 »

Confused wrote:
And if I don't want a start screen at all?
Then you're just one click away from the "normal" desktop. :)
Confused
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:23 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Confused »

[Blanked for privacy]
Last edited by Confused on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
vv19
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:56 am

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by vv19 »

Confused wrote:
jay22 wrote:
Confused wrote:
And if I don't want a start screen at all?
Then you're just one click away from the "normal" desktop. :)
Sounds like a net negative to me.
Best stick to win 7 then. :)
User avatar
iceport
Posts: 6054
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by iceport »

Rob5TCP wrote:Getting XP is not the answer. Within a year, all updates for XP will be finished. That will make the system much more vulnerable to virus/malware attacks.
So does this mean I'll be forced, in effect, to trash my 2002 Dell Dimension 4550 running XP Professional (with a Pentium 4 2GHz processor and 2 GB RAM) by April 2014?

I love this PC. :(

I feel like I could run this thing almost indefinitely. And I've bought programs that probably won't transfer to another machine.

:(

--Pete

(Sorry for the hijack, but this is a shock.)

EDIT:

On-topic question: So how long will Windows 7 be supported?

EDIT 2:

Before sscritic blasts me : http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... #section_2

Desktop operating systems - Windows 7
Latest service pack - Service Pack 1
End of mainstream support - January 12, 2015
End of extended support - January 14, 2020

Is there much difference between "mainstream" and "extended" support?

Sheesh, at most that's still less than 7 more years for Windows 7! Why should we opt for a PC that will become obsolete within 7 years??
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” |—| "In finance, if you’re certain of anything, you’re out of your mind." ─William Bernstein
pheleven
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:56 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by pheleven »

petrico wrote: So does this mean I'll be forced, in effect, to trash my 2002 Dell Dimension 4550 running XP Professional (with a Pentium 4 2GHz processor and 2 GB RAM) by April 2014?

I love this PC. :(

I feel like I could run this thing almost indefinitely. And I've bought programs that probably won't transfer to another machine.

:(

--Pete

Desktop operating systems - Windows 7
Latest service pack - Service Pack 1
End of mainstream support - January 12, 2015
End of extended support - January 14, 2020

Is there much difference between "mainstream" and "extended" support?

Sheesh, at most that's still less than 7 more years for Windows 7! Why should we opt for a PC that will become obsolete within 7 years??
You can always switch it over to Linux and use that machine indefinitely. The speed of the computer is the only limiting factor* for new versions of Windows, but it's a far smaller factor for Linux. In general Linux is far more secure as well.

Of course, there is a learning curve, but some of the distributions are rather easy to use and get accustomed to. Try Ubuntu if you have time and desire - you can run it from a CD to try it out without affecting your system.

As far as mainstream vs extended - extended is 'major' security patches only, in general. Mainstream they'll still be fixing bugs and potentially tweaking things they think need it. Features *might* still be added up until extended support. They also stop doing any 'freebie' support in the extended time frame.

*They plan to switch to UEFI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Ex ... _Interface, which when they force it, will make all computers that don't have it incompatible with the OS(s) - Windows 8 has this feature but doesn't yet enforce it. The problem is the reverse is true - if a computer uses UEFI it is limited in what you can put on it :annoyed
User avatar
iceport
Posts: 6054
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by iceport »

pheleven wrote:You can always switch it over to Linux and use that machine indefinitely. The speed of the computer is the only limiting factor* for new versions of Windows, but it's a far smaller factor for Linux.
Are you saying that Linux will be supported indefinitely? Will all software installed on the PC run well using a Linux OS?
pheleven wrote:Of course, there is a learning curve, but some of the distributions are rather easy to use and get accustomed to. Try Ubuntu if you have time and desire - you can run it from a CD to try it out without affecting your system.
What's a "distribution?"
pheleven wrote:*They plan to switch to UEFI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Ex ... _Interface, which when they force it, will make all computers that don't have it incompatible with the OS(s) - Windows 8 has this feature but doesn't yet enforce it. The problem is the reverse is true - if a computer uses UEFI it is limited in what you can put on it :annoyed
Does this "they" include Linux?

Thanks,
--Pete
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” |—| "In finance, if you’re certain of anything, you’re out of your mind." ─William Bernstein
patrick
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Mega-City One

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by patrick »

petrico wrote:
Rob5TCP wrote:Getting XP is not the answer. Within a year, all updates for XP will be finished. That will make the system much more vulnerable to virus/malware attacks.
So does this mean I'll be forced, in effect, to trash my 2002 Dell Dimension 4550 running XP Professional (with a Pentium 4 2GHz processor and 2 GB RAM) by April 2014?

I love this PC. :(

I feel like I could run this thing almost indefinitely. And I've bought programs that probably won't transfer to another machine.

:(

--Pete

(Sorry for the hijack, but this is a shock.)
Although it may be shocking, it has been publicized for a long time. The end of support doesn't mean the computer won't work anymore, but only that you don't get security patches for the OS. While not ideal I'm not sure it is a total disaster. Most attacks these days don't target the OS anyway, plus if you are behind a NAT router the attacker can't connect to your PC from outside. The biggest opening for attacks would be through the web browser. If you use a browser other than Internet Explorer you could still get security patches for the browser -- and the plugins too!
petrico wrote:Is there much difference between "mainstream" and "extended" support?

Sheesh, at most that's still less than 7 more years for Windows 7! Why should we opt for a PC that will become obsolete within 7 years??
For a regular user, the difference is that extended support mostly only provides security patches, while mainstream support will fix other things too.

I suspect that most people don't even keep using their PC for 7 years.

Given the specs you mentioned above, it seems like your PC is capable of running Windows 7 (but not Windows 8). So if you installed Windows 7 you'd still have the extended support until 2020 -- more than 17 years after you bought the computer!

However, if you are considering installing Windows 7, note that if you install Windows 7 directly you won't keep your old installed programs. However, you could do so if you upgrade XP to Vista first, and then upgrade Vista to Windows 7. That is assuming that your old apps are compatible. (Edited to add: There is a fair amount of risk of breaking your configuration somehow if you try this!)
Last edited by patrick on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
patrick
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Mega-City One

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by patrick »

petrico wrote:Are you saying that Linux will be supported indefinitely? Will all software installed on the PC run well using a Linux OS?
There will probably be support for some version of Linux for a very long time indeed. However, you will have to upgrade to newer versions of Linux from time to time if you want to keep having a supported version. If you want to keep using the old computer even in (say) 2020, you may need to switch to a Linux distribution specifically designed for old computers as mainstream Linux distributions will likely pass it by eventually.

Linux is first and foremost designed to run Linux apps, not all of the Windows apps already installed on your machine. However, it should be possible to run the Windows apps anyway. There is a program called "wine" that allows running Windows applications on a Linux system, though it might not always run your particular apps well.

A more thorough approach is to move your whole Windows XP installation into a virtual machine. Then you would still be running Windows XP when you needed to run any specific apps that require it, but otherwise would be running the outside operating system. This would allow you to avoid most security problems (since malware usually can't escape the VM and you could always replace the VM with an older copy if it gets infected) and still run the old apps on the old OS. This is not Linux-only -- it could also be done on a newer Windows version, on a Mac, etc.
petrico wrote:
pheleven wrote:Of course, there is a learning curve, but some of the distributions are rather easy to use and get accustomed to. Try Ubuntu if you have time and desire - you can run it from a CD to try it out without affecting your system.
What's a "distribution?"
Probably best thought of as a "flavor" of Linux. Each distribution includes Linux itself, plus various applications, and a system for installing it all along with default configuration settings.
petrico wrote:
pheleven wrote:*They plan to switch to UEFI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Ex ... _Interface, which when they force it, will make all computers that don't have it incompatible with the OS(s) - Windows 8 has this feature but doesn't yet enforce it. The problem is the reverse is true - if a computer uses UEFI it is limited in what you can put on it :annoyed
Does this "they" include Linux?
Your old PC won't have UEFI and so doesn't need to worry about it. For new PCs you probably don't need to worry much either -- as mentioned in the article it should be allowed to disable the restrictions (except on ARM machines).
User avatar
iceport
Posts: 6054
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by iceport »

Thanks for all the info, Patrick. I guess I've got a year to decide. Hopefully if I wait there will be a newer Windows version available that fixes some of the awkward interface drawbacks of Windows 8. Then I'll just have to bite the bullet and upgrade. The route(s) you described sounds like a lot of work, and without the ability to add anymore RAM I'd be concerned about running the newer Windows operating systems with 2 GB. Sounds like Linux is less memory or CPU intensive than Windows?

The old applications aren't anything too sophisticated or pricey, but I'm cheap. I'm still running a "spare" copy of Office 2000 that I luckily supplemented a few years ago with OpenOffice. (The Word 2002 that came with the machine doesn't handle .docx documents as well as OpenOffice Writer.) So I'd probably spring for new Office software, and then maybe a hundred bucks worth of programs I found and like for copying media. Seems like just a royal pain to set everything up again on a new machine. :annoyed

Well, I've hijacked this thread long enough.

--Pete
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” |—| "In finance, if you’re certain of anything, you’re out of your mind." ─William Bernstein
Valuethinker
Posts: 49018
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Valuethinker »

petrico wrote:Thanks for all the info, Patrick. I guess I've got a year to decide. Hopefully if I wait there will be a newer Windows version available that fixes some of the awkward interface drawbacks of Windows 8. Then I'll just have to bite the bullet and upgrade. The route(s) you described sounds like a lot of work, and without the ability to add anymore RAM I'd be concerned about running the newer Windows operating systems with 2 GB. Sounds like Linux is less memory or CPU intensive than Windows?

The old applications aren't anything too sophisticated or pricey, but I'm cheap. I'm still running a "spare" copy of Office 2000 that I luckily supplemented a few years ago with OpenOffice. (The Word 2002 that came with the machine doesn't handle .docx documents as well as OpenOffice Writer.) So I'd probably spring for new Office software, and then maybe a hundred bucks worth of programs I found and like for copying media. Seems like just a royal pain to set everything up again on a new machine. :annoyed

Well, I've hijacked this thread long enough.

--Pete
I deliberately bought a Win7 machine, new, to replace a 2006 Dell (Dimension I think) late last year to avoid Windows 8.

Everything I read about Win8 suggests that it is a reduction in usability for a Home Office/ business user over Win 7. The neat features just are not neat.

I reckon if you can keep a computer 5 years in this environment, you are doing well.

Significant changes in User Interface are just a pain-- takes a long time to learn how to do ordinary things that I have done for nearly 20 years on previous Windows machines-- back to Windows NT & 3.11.
Firewood42
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:06 am

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Firewood42 »

Is Windows 8 any good. In a work NO. My vista laptop crashed on me and I needed a laptop immediately. All they offer now is Windows 8. What a piece of junk. It took me and hour to figure out how to turn it off. Better security, hardly. Almost immediately I got something called Babylon Tool bar on it which I found out on the internet was some kind of virus. Still haven't been able to get rid of it all. Downloaded Spybot and Malwarebytes ant virus soft ware and found other "problems" that they go rid of. Still don't know how to turn off some programs like Iheart radio.

It was loaded with software that you could try and then had to buy. When you move the mouse around you will suddenly go to the tiles page. I found out to stop this you need to reboot the computer.
Go to this link and see how many other users are fed up with Windows 8.

I love my old XP desktop and my Vista laptop. Why they force you to buy Window's 8 and discontinue XP or Windows 7 is beyond me. When my XP desktop goes out, I am going to Apple.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-wi ... s-8-208963
EagertoLearnMore
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:05 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by EagertoLearnMore »

Firewood42 - I can understand your frustration. Turn off the live tiles to stop them from loading. Install the old "start" menu by utilizing a free download at download.com.

As I mentioned before, the shortcuts of Windows Key + C = Charms, Windows Key + D = Desktop, and Windows Key + X = Programs are helpful.

You definitely have to work with Windows 8 to customize it to your specifications.
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by abuss368 »

Related to my post above, my only hesitation with going to an Apple MacBook Air is the screen size is 11 or 13 inches. The MacBook Pro has a 15 inch screen but I will not spend $2k plus for that.

I do like my 17 inch laptop. Can see everything fine. I could settle for 15 inch but after seeing the 13 in the store I am a little hesitant. I might have to learn windows 8!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
Fieldsy1024
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:23 am

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by Fieldsy1024 »

I have Win 8 on my phone and it is way better than any iphone or android IMO.

The only thing it lacks is Apps, but soon enough it will catch up.
User avatar
mike143
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by mike143 »

Fieldsy1024 wrote:I have Win 8 on my phone and it is way better than any iphone or android IMO.

The only thing it lacks is Apps, but soon enough it will catch up.
Without availability of quality apps, what is a smartphone for? It has been out for quite awhile now.
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.
Topic Author
looking
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: morgan hill ,ca

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by looking »

mike143 wrote:
Fieldsy1024 wrote:I have Win 8 on my phone and it is way better than any iphone or android IMO.

The only thing it lacks is Apps, but soon enough it will catch up.
Without availability of quality apps, what is a smartphone for? It has been out for quite awhile now.

what does APPs means
lightheir
Posts: 2684
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by lightheir »

Firewood42 wrote:Is Windows 8 any good. In a work NO. My vista laptop crashed on me and I needed a laptop immediately. All they offer now is Windows 8. What a piece of junk. It took me and hour to figure out how to turn it off. Better security, hardly. Almost immediately I got something called Babylon Tool bar on it which I found out on the internet was some kind of virus. Still haven't been able to get rid of it all. Downloaded Spybot and Malwarebytes ant virus soft ware and found other "problems" that they go rid of. Still don't know how to turn off some programs like Iheart radio.

It was loaded with software that you could try and then had to buy. When you move the mouse around you will suddenly go to the tiles page. I found out to stop this you need to reboot the computer.
Go to this link and see how many other users are fed up with Windows 8.

I love my old XP desktop and my Vista laptop. Why they force you to buy Window's 8 and discontinue XP or Windows 7 is beyond me. When my XP desktop goes out, I am going to Apple.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-wi ... s-8-208963
Not trying to discount what you're saying, but the 'bloatware' is not part of the Win8 system natively. It's added on by laptop manufacturers who use it to defray the cost of their laptops (companies pay to put the bloatware in.) If you pay full retail for a new Win8 install disc, it will not come with any bloatware, and some manufacturers will sell you a no-bloatware laptop for an extra fee of $50-$100. Annoying, yes, but blame the correct target which is actually not Win8, but the hardware dealer/manufacturer.

FWIW, Win 7 >>> XP in terms of stability and security. This is well known, and if they have part/most of the DNA from Win7 in Win8, I'd expect it to be better in this dept. It's not even close - I've used both XP for years and years (still run XP at work) and Win7 since the day its come out, and honestly Win7 was the FIRST windows I thought 'wow, this actually is a stable system that's pretty darn good' which is a sad statement of sorts. Win8 I have less experience with but my colleague who computes similar to me has only good things to say about it - but he also uses a touchscreen laptop.

I'd love to go Linux (have tried several times) - the main caveat you have to watch out for is if you have peripherals (USB devices in particular) that won't be recognized by the Linux OS. Most printers, mice and other 'mainstream' hardware is, but more specialized items like sports GPS devices, etc. are usually not, and that can be a dealbreaker. I'm actually in the process of getting as cloud-enabled as possible which would make me OS-free, but there are a few peripherals I have that I rely on that are pretty much only-Windows/Mac.
User avatar
CyberBob
Posts: 3387
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by CyberBob »

looking wrote:what does APPs means
Apps are applications or programs. Generally referring to ones that run on smartphones and tablets, rather than traditional computers.

Bob
User avatar
speedbump101
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: is window 8 good ??

Post by speedbump101 »

I don't own a Win 8 computer, however I've have used one sparingly. I found this 25 min Youtube quite helpful.

http://tinyurl.com/cwudk84

SB...
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal" -Robert A. Heinlein
Post Reply