Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

[PhillyPhan]

00000

[aja8888]

Send her to The Woodlands, Texas and she will fit in just fine.....you should stay in Philly...

[mptfan]

I mean I do enjoy our time together but I am a little worried that our habits and preferences will cause turmoil down the road.

My thoughts are that you have good reason to be worried. If you are very far apart on your spending habits, then it will continue to cause problems in your relationship.

[Mrs.Feeley]

A more important question: Do you both love each other? Do both find the thought of going through life without the other utterly absolutely unbearable? Will you both do whatever it takes to make the other happy and to make your life together work? If the answer is yes to all of the above then of course it will work.

Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.

[icefr]

My boyfriend and I have some different ideas about spending, but we both LBYM and prioritize saving overall. I've educated him about 401(k)s, health savings accounts, the existence of the Roth IRA, and many other things. The difference in us isn't in our financial or long-term ideas but in our personalities. I'm more cautious, he's more impulsive. That reflects in how we spend our money. I think that, somewhat, we end up meeting somewhere in the middle. He would go out for breakfast, coffee, lunch, and dinner every day of the week, but I've convinced him that cooking isn't *so* bad, coffee at home is more convenient, and compromised to going out or doing takeout food once or twice a week for dinner. It took him a while to come around on some of these things, but he does now see the value in eating breakfast and drinking coffee in his pyjamas.

It's quite possible that your girlfriend falls into one of the following statements:
(1) She doesn't know that she's living above her means.
(2) She has an impulsive personality and needs to be coached to think more about the future.
(3) Her friends are not frugal and yours are. That makes a huge difference in your habits.
(4) She is more outgoing than you. It *can* be harder for more outgoing people to spend less since they like to socialize outside of the house and that seems to require spending money to many people.
(5) For all you know, she saved up for that Cartier handbag for months and/or years and she'll keep that Mercedes car for many years to come.

How long have you two been dating? Have you talked to her about these things at all? Does she have a budget? Does she save for retirement?

[mac808]

If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?

[reggiesimpson]

Primary reason for marital discord? Money. To be forewarned is to be forearmed! Move on.

[VictoriaF]

If she's living beyond her means...

LBYM = live below your means
LBYM = live beyond your means

What a versatile acronym!

Victoria

[lightheir]

If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?

I can't even begin to tell you how many men and women in their 30s I know (and am friends with) who absolutely can't live within their means. They are so resistant that even when I suggest that they track most of their expenses for a few weeks just to get a clue of where their money is going for the most part, they give me a firm, unavowed "no, that's IMPOSSIBLE!" answer. Crazy.

[RobG]

Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces.

[Petrocelli]

Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.

[chaz]

Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.

Amen.

[2b2]

Also, don't forget the most important consideration in a boglehead/non-boglehead mixed marriage :

How will the children be raised ?

2b2

[Cherokee8215]

00000

Why'd ya delete that? Got worried that she might really be a Boglehead in disguise and read your post?

[gasman]

Took a few years, but I got her to convert.

[William4u]

Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.

+1 Those pre-marriage classes can be great.

[blevine]

Of course you can marry...the question is if you can stay married.

Either one will change the other's behavior, maybe a bit of both,
or you will give up and move on.

Of course one might argue that dating is a non Boglehead thing to do...
I mean you are going to eat out at those frivolous restaurant prices ?
Go to frivolous movies ? And if both are bogleheads at a tender young
age, what is dating ? Sit home and watch netflix with no cable tv ?
Sounds like starting off as an old married couple from day 1.

A great deal to think about ...

[sschullo]

The Boglehead or not a boglehead is not the problem. I am married to a once-upon-a-time non boglehead. We had some lively debates when I turned a few years before him to a boglehead. He has now converted about 90%. He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps. But we eschew individual stocks, little trading, diversified portfolio, etc etc. Everything else we agree.

Regarding the frugality vs non frugality. For 38 years we were both frugal big time. So IMHO, forget expecting somebody else to change. A spend thrift and a frugal divergent couple will have serious issues when the bills come due with stress and no future, living from paycheck to paycheck is no future.

[Cherokee8215]

He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps.

Sounds like a cheap ER on a good marriage to me.

[sdrone]

Absolutely. Now, my wife is not a big spender; we both spend within our means.

But she will not, no matter how much I work it, take input from me on her investments. She's a stay at home mom now, but still has a 401k and stock account from pre-marriage, and we contribute to a Roth IRA for her.

The funny thing is, this solidifies the idea of a "Random Walk Down Wall Street." Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that). Her investments beat mine (3 fund portfolio with some small cap tilt) something like 50% of the time. But she never checks them, so she never knows if they are getting destroyed. I've had to gently remind her to get rid of stocks that are pieces of crap.

But the big thing is that we didn't get married until our 30s, and we had established patterns of spending within our means and saving money for the long term.

[davebo]

My wife does not think about finances at all, but she is naturally more frugal than the average person. I don't really care if she knows much about investments or whatever as long as we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.

[sschullo]

...we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.

+1

[Ozonewanderer]

00000

How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200...

[sschullo]

00000

How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200...

Similiar comments made by new people to AA? How in the world is it possible for sober people to have fun?

[LazyNihilist]

Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that).

I heard people buying stocks after listening to CNBC, but the Today show?

[yeledbed]

Of course you can date and get married... and then you can get divorced. Best of luck to you!

[wander]

Absolutely.

+1.
You always have time to decide if you want to get married.

[protagonist]

This song was recorded by the Beatles in July,1963: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_(That's_What_I_Want)

A mere six months later, in January, 1964, they did an about-face and recorded this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can't_Buy_Me_Love

Apparently the young Lennon and McCartney were struggling with the same sort of questions. You are not alone. You'll sort it out.

[Phineas J. Whoopee]

Wasn't there a Supreme Court case about that back in the '60s, which determined mixed couples can do as they please?
PJW

[Van]

A truly frugal Boglehead would rarely date and never marry.

[lws6772]

Yes, you can, but it will be frustrating and then there's the divorce thing.

[serbeer]

Sure. I married non-Boglehead for example.
But she was frugal nonetheless.
I do all the Bogleheadish investment management in our family

Bogleheadism can be learned and even intuited but frugality is a basic character trait, so it is much more important to look for one that has it.

[Levett]

"Send her to The Woodlands, Texas"

Cripes. The choice between the Woodlands and Philly is a no-brainer.

Woodlands in a heartbeat.

Lev

[stonerolled]

Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces.

I think you need extra parenthesis (P*(1+r)^N)/(2^D) not sure about order of operations but putting the exponential divorce factor in the denominator is a killer.

[LadyGeek]

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