Re: How Can I Tell If My Dentist is Good One?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:12 am
Perfect teeth are an American cultural phenomenon forced on the rest of the world.
Victoria
Victoria
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No need to chuckle, Jerilynn, although you seem to enjoy that. The specialist was referred to me by his teacher in dental school, who has taken very good care of several of my friends and family members for many years. Luxury automobiles had nothing to do with it, although an additional factor in my choice was that he was a respectful individual with a professional manner, unlike some others.I have to chuckle. How did you know this person was a "top" specialist? Did it say that on the license plate of his mercedes?
Oh, and don't chew ice, or any other hard brittle substance. Thanks for the good info, Jerilynn and lindisfarne, et al.Grt2bOutdoors wrote:Brush your teeth 2x a day, floss, and use a fluoride rinse.
You sound like my daughter. But I can't stop. Even my grandkids like chewing ice. Sometimes, when their mother isn't watching (and sometimes when she is), I will slip them a piece. Even my SIL let's them have a bit from his glass.Frugal Al wrote: Oh, and don't chew ice.
I thought that this was not allowed, in most (if not all) states. I also think I saw a related fight over non-dentist practiticioners being allowed to whiten teeth. Apparantly, that is not allowed in most (or all) states outside of a dentist's practice/office.wesleymouch wrote:The big scam is that you have to see a dentist in order to use the services of a dental hygenist. The fact is that it does not take much to be a general dentist. Its like being a pediatrician. You would be better off getting your teeth cleaned by a hygenist and seeing a dentist only when you have a problem. Dentists get laws passed to prevent hygenists from working independently. They have the hygenist do the work then mark up their services.
Look for a dental hygienist program at a local college. They do a terrific job for a fraction of the cost and the work is checked by the dentist faculty.dm200 wrote:I thought that this was not allowed, in most (if not all) states. I also think I saw a related fight over non-dentist practiticioners being allowed to whiten teeth. Apparantly, that is not allowed in most (or all) states outside of a dentist's practice/office.wesleymouch wrote:The big scam is that you have to see a dentist in order to use the services of a dental hygenist. The fact is that it does not take much to be a general dentist. Its like being a pediatrician. You would be better off getting your teeth cleaned by a hygenist and seeing a dentist only when you have a problem. Dentists get laws passed to prevent hygenists from working independently. They have the hygenist do the work then mark up their services.
You could try saying when you make the appointment that you just want a cleaning; no x-rays or exam. Try calling around - I'm sure some offices will be fine with that. I did this once when I was new to an area & had seen a dentist about 6 months earlier. They may do it expecting that on the next visit you'll want x-rays & exam.wesleymouch wrote:The big scam is that you have to see a dentist in order to use the services of a dental hygenist. The fact is that it does not take much to be a general dentist. Its like being a pediatrician. You would be better off getting your teeth cleaned by a hygenist and seeing a dentist only when you have a problem. Dentists get laws passed to prevent hygenists from working independently. They have the hygenist do the work then mark up their services.
Perfect teeth, dead patient.VictoriaF wrote:Perfect teeth are an American cultural phenomenon forced on the rest of the world.
Victoria
The dentist that I criticized as incompetent in a previous post had one curious good point-- he used a device to inject anesthetic slowly-- like for 30-60 seconds. Sounds horrific, but it was always utterly painless. He claimed that rapid fluid injection was the thing that caused pain. I had an intensely painful injection as a child, have cringed from them ever since, and this was really different. Good thing, since the fillings always fell out the next week...sscritic wrote:I was always more impressed by the size of the needle.
I have all my teeth, no tooth aches, and I've gone for second opinions when needed. Not sure how that equates to fooling myself/rationalizing.Jerilynn wrote:I hear what you are saying and I realize that you are comfortable with your decision. But, if you really think you know that your dentist is 'good' you are just rationalizing and fooling yourself.beachplum wrote:I know my dentist is good based on the fact that I continue to go to him. I was traumatized as a child of the 60s from my dentist experience and went through periods during my adult life when I would go years without seeing one. Now I'm back on track thanks to this young man who doesn't recommend doing anything that isn't absolutely necessary. Sometimes I find drs/dentists based on referrals, sometimes on what I've read and then I go see them and see what I think. I also like to read as much as possible about any procedure/ condition I have and what the latest recommendations/options are so I go in with some knowledge.
So then your patients are rationalizing and fooling themselves when they tell others you are a good dentist, right?Jerilynn wrote:I hear what you are saying and I realize that you are comfortable with your decision. But, if you really think you know that your dentist is 'good' you are just rationalizing and fooling yourself.beachplum wrote:I know my dentist is good based on the fact that I continue to go to him. I was traumatized as a child of the 60s from my dentist experience and went through periods during my adult life when I would go years without seeing one. Now I'm back on track thanks to this young man who doesn't recommend doing anything that isn't absolutely necessary. Sometimes I find drs/dentists based on referrals, sometimes on what I've read and then I go see them and see what I think. I also like to read as much as possible about any procedure/ condition I have and what the latest recommendations/options are so I go in with some knowledge.
You can avoid financial advisers by using mutual funds, particularly, index funds. What would be a medical equivalent? Who would be Jack's counterpart?DouglasDoug wrote:As I have a deep suspicion of Financial Advisors, I have deeper suspicions of doctors. So much at stake and a magnet for scammers to be sure. I hate doctor shopping and think consumers are basically unprotected. Good luck!
Louis CK has a dentist episode on his show, too. Extremely uncomfortable.dm200 wrote:Seinfeld had several "Dentist" bits in his show over the years.
Although no organization or system is a 100% guarantee of anything about medical providers, my opinion (based on my experiences) is that my HMO (Kaiser) reduces the probability of my being seen by an incompetent medical provider. Also, I am a strong believer that being a VERY informed patient also increases the probability of good medical treatment and reduces the probability of bad outcomes.DouglasDoug wrote:As I have a deep suspicion of Financial Advisors, I have deeper suspicions of doctors. So much at stake and a magnet for scammers to be sure. I hate doctor shopping and think consumers are basically unprotected. Good luck!
The end of that dentist visit is awful!leo383 wrote:Louis CK has a dentist episode on his show, too. Extremely uncomfortable.dm200 wrote:Seinfeld had several "Dentist" bits in his show over the years.
+1ejvyas wrote:Why in the world did I read this thread I did not learn how to evaluate a dentist but it sure does make me nervous as I have an appointment coming up
You don't know what you are missing.lindisfarne wrote:Thanks for the commentary Jerilynn, it is informative.
I've never had a dentist use a microscope while doing any kind of filling.
There are no 'guidelines' in dentistry. Practitioners in every State must conform to the 'standard of care' (SOC). SOC is the MINIMUM level of acceptable care within a community at a given point in time by responsible practitioners. It's determined on a case by case basis. It often times involves attorneys, state boards of dentistry, malpractice companies, patients and practitioners.<< I'm sure that guidelines have to be based on the reality that even dentists have human foibles & may take shortcuts or not follow instructions quite perfectly, rather than the ideal dentist.>>
It they are, they are just fooling themselves.<< I'm sure a lot of dentists are convinced that they do everything correct,>>
but in reality, for most, it's not actually true (lots of research suggests humans are overconfident of their ability in many areas.) If the evidence suggests the average amalgam is going to last longer in certain teeth (even if it's due to the factors you mention), that's probably what the guidelines are going to recommend because that's what the result of the average dentist is.
Talk to ALL the endodontists (and periodontists and oral surgeons). If the same name keeps coming up for a good GP, it's probably accurate.Now if I had a way of being sure I had found that ideal dentist, I'd be a whole lot happier ... and that's the topic of this thread. Maybe the thing to do is talk to some endodontists in the area! I'd rather pay more for an excellent dentist, than have future problems resulting from poor dentistry.
Grats! Only 6 more years and she too can be an endodontist and rake in the BIG BUCKS!Cunobelinus wrote:Disclaimer: My fiancee is graduating with a dental hygiene degree. She has worked in dental offices as an assistant (in the US) and as more-than-an-assistant (in Central American/Caribbean volunteer trips, assisting surgeries and pulling teeth). Most of my knowledge comes from her first-hand experience in dental hygiene school alongside dental students and on various dental/dental hygiene trips.
From knowing many of the dental hygienist students in her class over the past two years (she already had an undergrad, so it's a 2-year program), they all agree that they would not use a dentist who has been practicing for less than 4-5 years.
My fiancee also had the privilege of working for an experienced dentist (>35 years in his own practice)
This reinforced her personal belief that you should not necessarily trust a newly commissioned dentist.
The biggest things she complained about were that the new dentists lacked the experience necessary to evaluate whether or not a patient needed a surgery/procedure, and that the new dentists were more concerned with the profit of the dental offices.. so they would default to recommending an expensive procedure if there was any doubt.
Yup.They also weren't very skilled at performing many procedures, instead requesting oversight from their father (again, >35 years experience in his own practice). This brings to mind the old joke: what do you call the person with the lowest GPA who graduates from medical school? Doctor.
Correct. No money in that.Also, from my fiancee's experience, dentists aren't typically concerned with proper oral hygiene.**
The military has it's share of great dentists and slugs(slang for 'lousy dental operators').*Disclaimer #2: I am in the military and have only had military dentists/hygienists for >10 years; however, I once had a civilian life.
Depends on the individual patient. People with Xerostomia (dry mouth) have different needs than a normal healthy person. For these folks you may need high-Fl toothpaste with tri-calcium phosphate (Clinpro 5000. Rx only), Fl floss, Fl rinses and most importantly Fl varnish. (Vanish by 3M) http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... 800&rt=rudAnd lastly, I definitely agree with the earlier recommendation regarding daily brushing, flossing, and fluoridated mouthwash. In most states, a fluoridated mouthwash isn't exactly necessary (Hawaii is one of the few states that doesn't have fluoridated tapwater, so a fluoridated mouthwash should strengthen your enamel, but using a toothepaste with fluorine would help just the same). Proper brushing of the teeth will reduce calculus (plaque) buildup and the reduce the risk of periodontal disease; however, flossing is what really minimizes caries (cavities) in many folks (genetics/tooth formation and diet play a large role too).
I hope this helps you determine a "good one."
100% true. I know several outstanding dentists in Mexico, Canada, Latin America, Europe and Australia.wlpotts wrote:
That said, there are extremely well trained dental professional that operate outside of the USA. The services, training, and the professionalism of these practitioners has been learned by these individuals.
I wouldn't say 'a fraction', but for the most part less. If anyone needs a good dentist in the Netherlands, I know of two world class individuals. They ain't cheap, however. I also knew superb docs from Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Caracas, etc.These trained professionals can perform the exceptional care at a fraction of the cost if one is willing to cross borders.
True, but you still run into the same issue. You have NO IDEA how good that dentist is.As an example, I could have been prescribed for tooth issue that may require a Crown. The local USA dentist here in the US states that the Crown procedure will cost me $1200-$1500 to have the procedure done. If I decide to opt for an international trip accoss borders, that same procedure, care, and crown installation might cost to me around $400 for everything.
Which of course is bull. Like I said there are many fine dentists in foreign countries, course there are also ones that fit the above description.If you decide on this option, every one of the US based medical praticioners and insurance based entity's will let you know that you are 'jeopardizing you safety, health, and standards of healthcare'. They may also proclaim that it is unsafe, sub-standard, and the conditions that you may be subjected to may well be threatening to you. (These are fear tactics) When you sign any US based agreement on services rendered, the same risks are being identified in that US derived healthcare disclosure.
Math is easy. A lay person trying to determine 'how good a dentist is' is virtually impossible.You as an individual will have to do the math and decide if the consideration is reasonable to go outside of the box, but it should be considered.
gd wrote:I had a dentist for 20 years I was very happy with,
me figuring dentistry had pretty much become a commodity (like modern MD GPs, but that's another story...).
Fees also aren't a good indicator of quality. Some of the WORST dentists I knew charged the most.The new/old guy is more expensive, by the way, and I couldn't care less after experiencing the alternative.
In Arkansas, we still haven't switched.SPG8 wrote: When did everybody switch from cavity to caries?
For the most part, bigger needle = better. I used 25g needles for blocks, you could reliably aspirate with those. Some guys used 30g, they were junk for blocks.sscritic wrote:I was always more impressed by the size of the needle.
I wouldn't say it's a scam, per se, just some 'turf protection'. The dogma goes....."dentists are better trained to Dx medical issues, cancer, and other 'stuff' hygienists arent trained for. Total BS. Some hygienists know more about oral pathology than some dentists.wesleymouch wrote:The big scam is that you have to see a dentist in order to use the services of a dental hygenist. The fact is that it does not take much to be a general dentist. Its like being a pediatrician. You would be better off getting your teeth cleaned by a hygenist and seeing a dentist only when you have a problem. Dentists get laws passed to prevent hygenists from working independently. They have the hygenist do the work then mark up their services.
Trust me, I taught in a dental school for a little while. There are some really good professors and some docs that are marginal at best. This also applies to specialists.Wading Ashore wrote: The specialist was referred to me by his teacher in dental school, who has taken very good care of several of my friends and family members for many years. Luxury automobiles had nothing to do with it, although an additional factor in my choice was that he was a respectful individual with a professional manner, unlike some others.
Frugal Al wrote:
Sometimes good enough is good enough, although no one likes to cut corners on health services. It's nice to hear a pro say the same thing about their own profession. Not that I wouldn't like to have the best dentist possible, but I too came to the conclusion that I couldn't tell the great from the average.
I now go to the dental school at OSU.
[/quote]In fact, I get the feeling that some of the dental students already think cleaning is beneath them. I could be wrong--just my impression.
Dental schools can be good for tx. Just remember some of those students are getting "F's" on their work while the guy in the next cubicle over may be getting an "A" for a similar procedure.tuckeverlasting wrote:My experience at my local School of Dentistry has been highly satisfactory. They are my dentist for life!
Varies from state to state.reggiesimpson wrote: I thought that this was not allowed, in most (if not all) states. I also think I saw a related fight over non-dentist practiticioners being allowed to whiten teeth. Apparantly, that is not allowed in most (or all) states outside of a dentist's practice/office.
I taught at the local hygiene school, too. Same deal, there are A students and D students. And every once in a while a D student may get an A on a given day while the A student gets a D.Look for a dental hygienist program at a local college. They do a terrific job for a fraction of the cost and the work is checked by the dentist faculty.
Better yet, get the first dentist to email you the images of the radiographs. Then you can email them to 100 dentists if you want. If you current dentist doesn't have digital x-rays, it MAY be ok. If they don't have the capability to email you the images, or accept the images emailed to them, find someone else.Atilla wrote:This is what we did: get your x-rays and first dentist's recommendations sent to a different dentist for a second opinion. Made a huge difference in total cost and amount of work done for my wife.
If it don't feel right - get a second opinion.
I have discovered there is a large gap between dentists who tell you what to get done when it needs to get done - and in the most economical way possible - vs other dentists who want to go whole hog with lots of very expensive stuff right away.
That's why you want to talk to several perios, orthos etc. They dont all get referrals from the same dentists. The BEST recommendation you can get is when another practioner says something like this......"Dr. Jerilynn!?! Yes, I know her. WHAT AN A**HOLE! But, she does some pretty good work."stlrick wrote:1. You can't count on referrals from periodontists, orthodontists, etc. They get their referrals from general dentists, and some may recommend just to return the favor.
+1 I think we have established this point pretty well.2. There is no way a patient can judge, regardless of the number of years they have seen their dentist.
Not a bad 'rule of thumb'.3. The absolutely best way to find a good dentist is to find a dentist that other dentists send their families to.
No. SOMETIMES that's true, but not always. There are slugs that teach part-time, too. Why do the schools hire them? Cuz, they need a warm body to cover clinic and they hardly have to pay them anything.4. Second best, find a dentist in private practice who teaches part-time, usually one day per week, as clinical faculty at the local dental school.
5. If you are going to use students, use students in the General Practice Residency of a hospital,
Correct. It's just based on the school they went to. A while ago, some schools changed the degree from DDS to DMD because it sounded 'better and more modern'. But, the education was identical. Also, some of the schools that switched from DDS to DMD, switched back after a few years.DMD or DDS (there is, by the way, absolutely no difference between these degrees).
It's called "The Wand", mostly a marketing gimmic. It works, sure. But, if a dentist used topical properly and injected slowly, he could accomplish the same thing. The device didn't catch on. I tried it, meh. I have one in a closet at the office, I'll sell it to you cheap!gd wrote:The dentist that I criticized as incompetent in a previous post had one curious good point-- he used a device to inject anesthetic slowly-- like for 30-60 seconds. Sounds horrific, but it was always utterly painless. He claimed that rapid fluid injection was the thing that caused pain. I had an intensely painful injection as a child, have cringed from them ever since, and this was really different. Good thing, since the fillings always fell out the next week...sscritic wrote:I was always more impressed by the size of the needle.