Pay a speeding ticket or plead to non moving

[verbose]

I'm wondering how I should pay a speeding ticket. I have two choices:

1) Pay $135, get points on the license, and have an auto insurance increase of unknown quantity
2) Pay $120 to a lawyer plus about $315 in fines, no points, no insurance rate increase

My husband usually gets about one ticket a year. The fines for a negotiated "non-moving" violation have been going up over the years. Five years ago it was around $150. Now it's over $300. Also this ticket is from the Highway Patrol and I'm afraid it will be more expensive than one from a municipality.

Currently, our auto insurance is for a clean record. However, we've had an at-fault accident that won't be factored into the rate until next October.

So, is it better to pay an extra $300 now or save the $300 and hope the speeding ticket doesn't hit the insurance too much? I haven't the faintest clue what the impact would be on the insurance rates, nor how it works in with the at-fault accident.

[damjam]

I would probably pay the $300 rather than have a moving violation.

Also, can you take a defensive driving course to lower your insurance premium?

[LadyGeek]

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (auto / driver related).

[johnep]

I'm wondering how I should pay a speeding ticket. I have two choices:

1) Pay $135, get points on the license, and have an auto insurance increase of unknown quantity
2) Pay $120 to a lawyer plus about $315 in fines, no points, no insurance rate increase

My husband usually gets about one ticket a year. The fines for a negotiated "non-moving" violation have been going up over the years. Five years ago it was around $150. Now it's over $300. Also this ticket is from the Highway Patrol and I'm afraid it will be more expensive than one from a municipality.

Currently, our auto insurance is for a clean record. However, we've had an at-fault accident that won't be factored into the rate until next October.

So, is it better to pay an extra $300 now or save the $300 and hope the speeding ticket doesn't hit the insurance too much? I haven't the faintest clue what the impact would be on the insurance rates, nor how it works in with the at-fault accident.

I am not familiar with how this works in your state, but in NC I would take option 2. You will already be dealing with the at-fault accident. I suspect the combination will result in a significant premium increase that will far exceed the higher cost of option 2. You will likely be paying the higher insurance for 3 years, and hope that you do not get another points violation. Option 1 sounds rather low. In NC, you would have court costs added in even though you do not choose to go to court. That would add another $200 or so here.

Anytime you can keep points off of your driving and insurance record, it is worth the extra costs IMO. Best wishes.

[NYBoglehead]

I'd go with Option #2. I've been through this myself a few years ago. Paying the extra fee for the lawyer now will save money on insurance and keep a moving violation off your record. This will pay dividends if you have the misfortune of getting pulled over for speeding again in the next few years.

[soaring]

My husband usually gets about one ticket a year.

This isn't what you asked about but maybe it is time to think about driving habits. Seems about one a yr is excessive.

I am no model citizen...I like to drive 5 over the limit at all times and when younger 10 over the limit. But in 40+ yrs of driving have had 3 tickets. I went to court myself w/o a lawyer on two and won both. The third I paid.

good luck

[verbose]

I agree about the driving habits. I've received one ticket in my life, and it wasn't for speeding. However, when my husband is pulled over, he gets a ticket 100% of the time. I've been pulled over for valid reasons probably ten times in my life. I don't cry or anything... I just don't get a ticket.

[NYBoglehead]

I agree about the driving habits. I've received one ticket in my life, and it wasn't for speeding. However, when my husband is pulled over, he gets a ticket 100% of the time. I've been pulled over for valid reasons probably ten times in my life. I don't cry or anything... I just don't get a ticket.

Haha, I'm sure you are very charming. I gotta say, it drives me crazy that the ladies pay less for car insurance when I'm convinced they don't speed less they just get fewer tickets!

[BigFoot48]

I find it interesting that government entities provide a method for paying a higher fine to avoid getting points. Very creative way to increase revenues! I would pay the higher amount and change the family driving habits to never have to do it again.

[NYBoglehead]

Let's not beat em up too much on the speeding tickets. A lot of them these days are because states and municipalities are more interested in the money than they are the actual offense...sometimes driving out of state makes you particularly vulnerable since they know you won't bother to contest it in court and nothing beats having out-of-towners pick up the tab for part of the budget.

[magellan]

...sometimes driving out of state makes you particularly vulnerable since they know you won't bother to contest it in court and nothing beats having out-of-towners pick up the tab for part of the budget.

I experienced this first hand in North Carolina while driving a rental car. I was pulled over for 74 in a 55 zone and when I politely asked to see the reading on the radar gun, the officer said that I had slowed down to 66 by the time he locked it. I was sure I was going under 65, but I didn't argue much because I thought he'd let me off since I caught him in a fib. As it happened, he wrote me up for 66 in a 55.

Aside from that incident, I've never had a ticket while following my simple speed limit rule. On a divided highway, I try to stay under 70 in a 55 zone and under 75 in a 65 zone. On non-divided roads, I stay within 9 of the posted limit. In 20+ years I've gone through hundreds of speed traps and as long as I was following this rule, I've never gotten a ticket or even a warning, aside for that one ticket in NC.

Has anyone gotten a written up for less than 70 in a 55 zone or less than 75 in a 65 zone?

Jim

(Edited to clarify 55 rule is for divided highways)

[Calm Man]

Take this for what it's worth from a 60 year old man who has never in his life received a speeding ticket nor moving violation and does not intend to. Here the clear choice is #2. However, I am concerned that your husband has had an at fault accident and apparently gets a speeding ticket once a year. I would invest nect year's $300 prophylactically and have him take a driving class or maybe seek professional help. He is entitled to kill himself in an accident but not others and he will one day if he doesn't act like a more responsible adult. If this sounds like sermonizing, I guess it is, but when I used to cover ERs I saw too many victims of drivers like this and it is so senseless.

[bottomfisher]

I suggest option number 2. I was in a similiar situation a few years ago. Our state doesn't have a point system; but I paid the non-moving violation fine and avoided any potential insurance increase. Also because of the accident the insurance may decide to drop you as a customer. Thats a bit drastic for only 1 ticket and 1 accident; but suppose you were to unfortunately get another ticket or accident in a short time frame from now. It turns into a real possibility. The $300 upfront is more expensive but I feel you'll make out better in the long run.

[dm200]

Why can't he go to court, himself, and plead "not guilty" (if, in fact, he was not guilty)? My wife got a ticket a few months ago for not stopping at a stop sign. She went to the court, herself, and said she stopped. The charge was dismissed by the judge.

The other question is how do you know getting a lawyer will have the desired result this time, especially since there is a history of speeding tickets?

[BuckyBadger]

I try to stay within 9 all the time. 74 in a 65. 64 in a 55. Somehow I've decided that 10 is the magic number over which they will come and get you.

I don't know if this is true, but (knock on wood) it's worked for me so far!

[German Expat]

I try to stay within 9 all the time. 74 in a 65. 64 in a 55. Somehow I've decided that 10 is the magic number over which they will come and get you.

I don't know if this is true, but (knock on wood) it's worked for me so far!

I have seen people being pulled over for being 5-9 above the limit. Also my wife got an automated one from a speed camera doing 34 in a 30 (won't show on the record though and I find those cameras just a revenue source for the town, different story though). I assume when you do 9 over in reality it is probably closer to 5 over. Did you measure your actual speed via your GPS system ? Almost all cars show a little bit on the high side (on purpose). If I do 80 in reality it is 75 looking at my GPS. 38 is 35 on the GPS etc.

[MathWizard]

2) might make sense financially, but the whole deal seems to stink.

The state and the attorney get more money out of you so that you can
get lower insurance rates. Is the insurance agency getting a kickback too?
I would not want any part in such a shady affair.

If your husband was speeding, pay the ticket and be done with it.

I've had a few speeding tickets, each time I was in the wrong, and paid the
ticket.

[midareff]

I recently received a moving violation after 15 + years of a clean record. In the Miami area is a company called the Ticket Clinic. For a fee that is similar to the mail-in ticket cost they guarantee they will get you off. They have been written up in the local newspaper for having a record that is truly superb, over 99% success. I believe the insurance cost increase here would be larger than than the cost to beat it, assuming they do. I employed them recently and will see how they do for me.

[NHRATA01]

Always take the non moving violation and always fight your "first" speeding tickets. If you keep your record clear of moving violations, you're far more likely to be let go with a warning, or just given a non-moving violation the next time you get pulled over. And if you do get a ticket, you have a much better chance of getting it dismissed if his honor sees you have an otherwise pristine driving record.

3 tickets in 17 years. One speeding knocked down to 56 in a 55 after fighting it, one running a red dismissed (after I brought much evidence supporting my case, but the judge tossed it before even asking for my side, presumably due to a clean record), one non-moving after romping on it in my loud car after turning on to an open stretch of road. I don't think in that case the cop actually got my speed, he just heard the noise since he commented on it.

[Default User BR]

I've been successful in avoiding tickets by and large. Keep within decent speed ranges, never push red lights ( I think that's more dangerous than speeding). When I have gotten them in the past, lawyer or defensive driving course has kept the record clean. My understanding is that in most places the courses can be taken online these days, so that would be a real benefit over the "spend Saturday in the community center" way of the past.


Brian

[dm200]

In the case of my wife's being charged with not stopping at a stop sign, this was a very long wait for her case to be heard. What I learned listening to all the cases before hers was the (significant in this jurisdiction) difference between being ticketed for such a violation when an officer is specifically watching/targeting a specific location vs. just noticing such an alleged violation while going somewhere, etc. The folks who were charged when an intersection was being watched for not stopping at a stop sign or not stopping at a red light seemed to be convicted, while those (like my wife) who were ticketed as an officer passed by tended to get off.

[yosef]

Is there not an option 3: Go to court yourself and plead it out/get reduced? I personally have not done that myself but the times I have needed an attorney it hasn't cost me quite that much in total. Regardless, I definitely wouldn't let it hit my insurance since it will almost certainly raise it substantially for at least 3 years.

[spartanlaw]

What state are you in?

[Boglenaut]

My husband usually gets about one ticket a year.

I think he really should do a root cause analysis of why he is getting so many tickets to begin with, then work on that.

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTMC_80.htm

[bertie wooster]

If you live in CA you should always request a trial by written declaration for a traffic ticket, even if you are blatantly guilty.

In CA, police get paid overtime for showing up in court, but don't get paid to contest what you write when you have a trial by written declaration. If the officer doesn't respond, the ticket gets dropped. I've been pulled over twice in 4 years, both times the ticket was dropped.

If you can avoid it, don't go to court.

[jeffyscott]

So, is it better to pay an extra $300 now or save the $300 and hope the speeding ticket doesn't hit the insurance too much? I haven't the faintest clue what the impact would be on the insurance rates, nor how it works in with the at-fault accident.

Why don't you ask your insurance agent what the impact on your rate would be and for how long?

That is what I did when an attorney contacted me by post card with an offer of a fee of $65, when I contacted him, he gave the option of, I think paying a $200 fine (same as the speeding violation) for faulty speedometer or $400 to make it a parking ticket. He said some insurance companies consider faulty speedometer to be a moving violation and some don't. I contacted my agent and he told me the company did not consider it a moving violation, so I took the cheaper option.

The agent also has told me in the past how much rates would increase with violations or accidents for purposes of informing my kids, I thought it might encourage safer driving.

[westie]

If you live in CA you should always request a trial by written declaration for a traffic ticket, even if you are blatantly guilty.

In CA, police get paid overtime for showing up in court, but don't get paid to contest what you write when you have a trial by written declaration. If the officer doesn't respond, the ticket gets dropped. I've been pulled over twice in 4 years, both times the ticket was dropped.

If you can avoid it, don't go to court.

The problem some may have with the written declaration route is the defendant shall, at the time of submitting that declaration, submit bail in the amount established in the uniform traffic penalty schedule. If the defendant is found not guilty or if the charges are otherwise dismissed, the amount of the bail shall be promptly refunded to the defendant.

[jayars35]

...sometimes driving out of state makes you particularly vulnerable since they know you won't bother to contest it in court and nothing beats having out-of-towners pick up the tab for part of the budget.

I experienced this first hand in North Carolina while driving a rental car. I was pulled over for 74 in a 55 zone and when I politely asked to see the reading on the radar gun, the officer said that I slowed down to 66 by the time he locked it. I thought I was going to get off since I caught him in a fib, but he wrote me up for 66 in a 55.

Aside from that, I've never had a ticket while following my simple speed limit rule. I try to stay under 70 in a 55 zone, under 75 in a 65 zone, and within 9 of the limit if it's under 55. In 20 years I've gone through hundreds of speed traps using this approach I've never even had a warning, except for that one in NC.

Has anyone gotten a written up for less than 70 in a 55 zone or less than 75 in a 65 zone?

Jim

I know several people that got tickets for less than 70 in a 55 and if it is a two lane road, I'm glad they did. Not as many for less than 75 in a 65. I think that is because all 65 areas I know of here are at least 4 lanes.

I got my first speeding ticket last year(I'm 48) and I had a lawyer handle it. Lawyer fee plus court cost was ~$250. It was for going 34 in a 20. The officer got me as I was acceletrating from a 20mph into a 35mph zone. It was reduced to an equipment violation.

[Don Christy]

I suspect the local market is fairly efficient and it doesn't matter too much which way you go, IF it is just one ticket every 3 years. If it is 1 ticket every year, or you have an at fault accident, most likely better to pay the lawyers.

[bottlecap]

Has anyone gotten a written up for less than 70 in a 55 zone or less than 75 in a 65 zone?

Jim

Heck, yes. I'm surprised that your rule of thumb works at all. I think 10 or over in a 50 mph zone or up is risky. I've been ticketed for 10 over some 15 years back. That was the lowest.

Speeding tickets are easy to avoid: don't speed! If you get one or more every 2 or 3 years, it's a problem, and you have to pay for the privilege...

JT

[magellan]

Heck, yes. I'm surprised that your rule of thumb works at all. I think 10 or over in a 50 mph zone or up is risky. I've been ticketed for 10 over some 15 years back.

Was it a multi-lane interstate highway or a state highway with a double yellow line down the middle? I should have clarified that the under 70 rule is only for a multi-lane divided highway. On a state highway with a double yellow line in the middle, I tend to keep it under 65 in a 55 zone, although around here a 55 limit on a non-divided state highway is pretty rare.

Jim

[magician]

If you live in CA you should always request a trial by written declaration for a traffic ticket, even if you are blatantly guilty.

In CA, police get paid overtime for showing up in court, but don't get paid to contest what you write when you have a trial by written declaration. If the officer doesn't respond, the ticket gets dropped. I've been pulled over twice in 4 years, both times the ticket was dropped.

If you can avoid it, don't go to court.

The other advantage to trial by written declaration is that if you lose, you still have the option to go to court: you have two bites at the apple.

[Bustoff]

Find out the phone number on the ticket to request a trial. If the ticket was issued by the Hwy. Patrol that information may be on the ticket, maybe not. In some cases you have to check "not guilty" on the ticket and send it in. In any event, step one is to plead not guilty and request a court date. When you get your court date you will also get the information when and where to appear. On the court date go to court early and request to speak with the prosecutor. Tell him you are poor and can't afford to pay both a lawyer and the fine. Then ask the prosecutor if he would please consider reducing the ticket to a non-moving violation and allow you to pay a fine on the non-moving violation. This will work 9 times out of ten as long as you show some humility.

[Saving$]

Option #2, without a doubt.

I've gotten 2 tickets in 20 years. Last one was about 2.5 years ago for 12 miles over; apparently this is not just a moving violation, but rather a "conviction." Can't wait for it to drop off my record (supposedly after 3 years). My auto rate went up, my homeowners went up due to supposedly higher risk behavior, my rental property liability policies went up (for "underwriting" reasons that I can't get explained) and my umbrella policy went up. All policies come with a note stating "your policy premium includes $dd.cc because of a conviction." They are very efficient at finding this info. I got a notice of policy increase due to the "conviction" about 6 weeks after my court date on the ticket. I had no idea a moving violation was a "conviction" so I availed myself of the option to get a free copy of my Choice Point report, thinking there was a mistake. No mistake - only thing on there was my 12 miles over moving violation.

[southerndoc]

Heck, yes. I'm surprised that your rule of thumb works at all. I think 10 or over in a 50 mph zone or up is risky. I've been ticketed for 10 over some 15 years back. That was the lowest.

It really varies by state. In Georgia, only a state officer can ticket you for 10 mph or less over except in school zones, residential districts, or speed limits of 25 mph or less. County and city officers can only ticket you for 11 mph over except as noted (or if they pace you -- basically follow you for a 1/2 mile to determine your speed). No more than 15% of their ticket revenue can come from tickets of 17 mph or less. Therefore, most officer will give you 15 mph over the limit before pulling you over. There are so many speeders in Georgia that all my friends who are cops say they hold out for those doing 20+ over the limit. One friend won't even bother unless someone is doing 25 over the limit. He sits on the interstate and tickets 10-15 people per shift going that fast and all are charged with the super speeder law.

[bottomfisher]

FYI- pertinent article on cnbc today - "Traffic Ticket? Don't Let It Raise Your Car Insurance Rates"
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100476549

Only 31 percent of drivers who have gotten at least one traffic ticket say the citation resulted in a rate increase from their car insurer, according to a survey

[Random Musings]

Has anyone gotten a written up for less than 70 in a 55 zone or less than 75 in a 65 zone?

Jim

In Ohio, a state I don't reside in, I received a ticket for going 61 in a 55 zone, no weather conditions. Two tickets in 34 years, both in Ohio. The other one was a failure to yield when I was blocked by traffic to move over in an area when a hump in the road didn't allow me to see the vehicles until it was way too late.

RM

[Confused]

Has anyone gotten a written up for less than 70 in a 55 zone or less than 75 in a 65 zone?

Jim

Heck, yes. I'm surprised that your rule of thumb works at all. I think 10 or over in a 50 mph zone or up is risky. I've been ticketed for 10 over some 15 years back. That was the lowest.

Speeding tickets are easy to avoid: don't speed! If you get one or more every 2 or 3 years, it's a problem, and you have to pay for the privilege...

JT

I've heard the rule of thumb should be going no faster than 10% over the speed limit. That is to say, no faster than 22 in a 20, 55 in a 50, or 77 in a 70. I've also heard that the rule is no faster than the 85th percentile of cars. However, in my state, everyone speeds. Per a report done by TomTom, our interstate has the fastest average speed in the nation. Most cars go at least 75 in the 65, with many going beyond 80. Even if you go 85, you'll still get passed from time to time.

Back to the point at hand, I pay the money over the points and insurance increase any day of the week.

[interplanetjanet]

around here a 55 limit on a non-divided state highway is pretty rare.

What about country roads (non-divided, non-highway)? Around here they have a limit of 55 unless otherwise posted (which usually only happens close to a town). On the other hand, they tend to either be straight (often in a grid pattern) or have good visibility through turns.

[midareff]

I recently received a moving violation after 15 + years of a clean record. In the Miami area is a company called the Ticket Clinic. For a fee that is similar to the mail-in ticket cost they guarantee they will get you off. They have been written up in the local newspaper for having a record that is truly superb, over 99% success. I believe the insurance cost increase here would be larger than than the cost to beat it, assuming they do. I employed them recently and will see how they do for me.

As a follow up.... the ticket has been dismissed. No points, no conviction, no insurance penalty will be experienced and the cost was less than just signing off and paying the ticket would have been.

[WHL]

I have extended family that are terrible drivers. Always 15mph over, aggressive, etc. multiple tickets, suspended license for a time.

I just don't get it. I definitely had my fun when I was a youngin, and paid for it, but now that I'm st the ripe old age of 30, I try to never go more than 4mph over.

[JStephens]

Has anyone gotten a written up for less than 70 in a 55 zone or less than 75 in a 65 zone?

Jim

(Edited to clarify 55 rule is for divided highways)

I've gotten a 77 in a 70 and last weekend my friend got one for going 80 in a 75. I get one around every other year and just do the online driving class during work and move on with life.

[meebers]

I got a speeding ticket once. Stomped on it to merge into traffic while getting on the interstate. Cop asked if I was in a hurry, said no. Do I have an emergency, said no. Cop said you were speeding, said yes, just trying to make a smooth merge. Well he did not give me a speeding ticket, but rather a citation for not following a speed control device (signage). I think it was $45 instead of $310. So I said to the lady at the payment window, if I do not go to driving school and take points on my record, what else happens. She said 3 points, yes but what else does that do to me. Silence. I think the points stayed on my record for 3 yrs, but nothing else, insurance did not go up. DL license renewal was reduced to 3 yrs instead of 6 years. No one wants to slow down or stop on an entrance ramp, luckily we have long merge lanes to the interstate.