What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

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snyder66
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What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by snyder66 »

I'm just wondering how many of you out there took a risk, against your better judgement? It could be a job, move or other. I post this because I wqould really like to move my family of 5 to a warmer climate.
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nisiprius
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by nisiprius »

I don't know about "against your better judgement." I've taken some where "judgement" hardly came into play at all. The two big ones were:

a) Getting married, and

b) Having kids.

In both cases it just felt right, and in both cases about the only rational element involved was "Well, I see lots of people doing it and if they can do it, I can do it." When we got married my wife and I together were making $2,500 a year, which even in the 1960s was not really a whole awful lot. There were no spreadsheets then and we were smart enough not to try doing the math.

With my wife it was a real "across a crowded room" moment. When we got married we'd known each other a grand total of about eight weeks. So far, it's lasted OK. In fact, it is a little weird to realize that since my parents died when I was in my thirties, at this point I have known my wife longer than I have known my parents.

With the kids, see, we had this pet guinea pig and it had a litter and the little--what do you call them? guinea-shoats were so cute, and then we noticed that all of a sudden other grad students' babies were starting to look adorable, too.
Last edited by nisiprius on Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by Call_Me_Op »

Sold all my stock in September 2008, and bought it back a few months later. Turned out to be a great move. :)
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sscritic
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by sscritic »

Is the risk that global cooling will negate the effect of the move?

We use money to get things we want. You want a warmer climate. It may use some of your money or even a lot to get it. What does being bogleheadish have to do with how you value warmth?

Others have posted about moving to other countries from the US. As I have read their stories, few, if any, were guaranteed in advance that the move would work out.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by FillorKill »

how many of you out there took a risk... It could be a job...
1. Twice, as an adult, took an entire year off [unpaid in any way].
2. Walked from two careers [so far].
3. Many more – I’m a risk taker by nature.

I don't plan to die wondering.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by sscritic »

I might understand part of what you are feeling, but boglehead has nothing to do with it.

I am not a risk taker. I never sought out a better or higher paying job; the only time I changed jobs was when I was fired. So if you don't want to take any risks, buy some good down filled coats for your family.
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nisiprius
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by nisiprius »

sscritic wrote:We use money to get things we want. You want a warmer climate. It may use some of your money or even a lot to get it. What does being bogleheadish have to do with how you value warmth?
+1
Others have posted about moving to other countries from the US. As I have read their stories, few, if any, were guaranteed in advance that the move would work out.
I think this is another case where the detailed rational analysis could be "Well, I see lots of people doing it and if they can do it, I can do it."

By the way, when it comes to moves, it is not a bad idea to bear this in mind:
In 'The People, Yes,' poem 52, Carl Sandburg wrote:[a] sodbuster in Kansas leaned at the gatepost... Drove up a newcomer in a covered wagon: 'What kind of folks live around here?' 'Well, stranger, what kind of folks was there in the country you come from?' 'Well, they was mostly a lowdown, lying, thieving gossiping, backbiting kind lot of people.' 'Well, I guess, stranger, that's about the kind of folks you'll find around here.' And the dusty gray stranger had just about blended into the dusty gray cottonwoods in a clump on the horizon when another newcomer drove up: 'What kind of folks live around here?' 'Well, stranger, what kind of folks was there in the country you come from?' 'Well, they was mostly a decent, hardworking, lawabiding, friendly lot of people.' 'Well, I guess, stranger, that's about the kind of folks you'll find around here.'"
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by englishgirl »

Why is this against your better judgement? Or non-Bogleheadish? I moved to a warmer climate, and in doing so, moved to a new continent, where I had to drive on the wrong side of the road, to a city where I didn't know a soul, while taking a massive pay cut for the privilege. Seems to be working out so far. :)

The one I was more scared about was taking a few months to travel around the world on my own. It wasn't a financial risk - I had the money saved up and a job waiting for me. But a personal risk. And I had a blast.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by SSSS »

Sometimes I don't want to leave the house to get food, so I order $28 of stuff from Domino's and usually only eat about half of it.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by reggiesimpson »

1. Moved away from the stock market years ago. 2. Bought lots of long term municipal bonds and corporate bonds over the decades. Now retired very comfortably collecting a healthy income. Heh it works for me.
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snyder66
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by snyder66 »

It goes against my wife's judgement, because she is a teacher, with a pension. We have 3 kids, and they could never survive such a tramatic move. I'm just tired of living in a climate that is decent for, maybe, 6 months out of the year. It is non-bogleheadish because it does not make financial sense.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by englishgirl »

Your kids could never survive?
Your wife couldn't get a teaching job with a pension where you move to?

Also, you're always talking about how you're laid off seasonally. I forget which job you do (construction?). If you moved somewhere where you could work year round, wouldn't this make more sense financially?
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sscritic
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by sscritic »

snyder66 wrote:It goes against my wife's judgement, because she is a teacher, with a pension. We have 3 kids, and they could never survive such a tramatic move. I'm just tired of living in a climate that is decent for, maybe, 6 months out of the year. It is non-bogleheadish because it does not make financial sense.
The non-bolgeheadish move is to move where your wife doesn't want to move. Case closed.

As to your children, you are a parent. My parents moved me when I was 10. I am alive. We moved my children twice as teenagers. They are still alive. If you move, you move. Parent up! (that's for those who would be offended by a reference to a single sex even if you are only one of the two)
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by reggiesimpson »

snyder66 wrote:It goes against my wife's judgement, because she is a teacher, with a pension. We have 3 kids, and they could never survive such a tramatic move. I'm just tired of living in a climate that is decent for, maybe, 6 months out of the year. It is non-bogleheadish because it does not make financial sense.
We lived in 4 countries by the time i was 13 and it actually brought me closer to my parents. As those moves were stimulated by a need to improve the families financial opportunities it may very well be non BH for you to make a move at this time. Good luck.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by atfish »

Being young & dumb I bought Ebay when it went public. Luckly it turned out to be a very good investment. Sold partial shares after every stock split. Made outstanding profits and went to Vanguard and bought BH type investments to help protect the profit. Being older now and hopefully wiser I probably wouldn't do it again. Thanks Vanguard & Bogleheads.
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snyder66
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by snyder66 »

I'm sorry, that was my sarcastic tone, speaking in my wife's voice.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by Fallible »

Beginning investing with the family broker and not asking enough questions of him before letting him put me into an 8.5 percent load fund. That was many years ago and I still don't fully understand why I didn't question him further since I was in a business that required asking questions, trained me how to ask them, and I was a naturally curious and skeptical sort who liked to ask questions anyway. I assume it was the family influence I felt to go with this guy, so maybe it was a form of herd instinct.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by Noobvestor »

Started a business instead of searching for a job, or so it seemed at the time. Now, having weathered the last few years in which a lot of colleagues, classmates and friends have gone through layoffs, I'm starting to wondering just how risky becoming an entrepreneur really is.

On the investing front, my favorites would be: investing in an over-priced T Rowe Emerging Europe fund, a B-class share of Berkshire, but the best of all: VICEX, the vice fund I thought would do well in a downturn because it held alcohol, tobacco, casino and firearm stocks (hint: it didn't!).
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by porcupine »

sscritic wrote:[...]Parent up! (that's for those who would be offended by a reference to a single sex even if you are only one of the two)
Surely you meant to say 'Human up!' or 'Person up!'; unless you've heard the phrase 'Father up!' ;-)

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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by NYBoglehead »

Purchased shares of Oppenheimer Rising Dividend Fund...with a 5.95% sales load :oops:

Live and learn! Not 100% Boglehead for life. And have a Mrs. Boglehead along for the ride.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by gator15 »

About ten years ago when I got my first job, I was eager to invest and had $3k in my pocket which I'd saved during my time in college. I met with a financial advisor who proceeded to sell me on front loaded mutual funds and whole life insurance. At the time, I was a 22 year old who was single with no kids. I proceeded to invest with him, giving him my entire $3k (he took $1500 for fees) and I bought a whole life insurance policy paying well over $100 a month for the policy. At the time, I knew nothing about investing and figured a financial advisor could do the job better. Soon after, I began to educate myself regarding investing and I fired him after 6 months. I've been managing my money since then.

In 2008, I quit my job in July because I wanted to explore the world. It was a good job, but I wanted to do something else and I wanted to travel. Up to that point, I'd saved enough to take off for a year. Like many others, I lost a substantial amount of my net worth between September and December 2008 which forced me to go back to work earlier than I expected. I did get to travel, but not as much as I wanted to. I don't regret this decision nor hiring a financial advisor because I learned alot from both situations.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by Clever_Username »

My grandfather left some small amount of money for me in an account. For a while, I just left it there. It was with what is now Merrill Lynch.

At some point, about a year ago, I got a notice that the fees were going to go up. I didn't know what the fees were, but I didn't like that they were going up. My mother (who is usually a source of great suggestions, so she's allowed this miscue and then some) suggested that I move the account to the same financial advisor she uses.

I posted here in another thread a few months ago (and it seems I left some detail out there). The short story is: I ended up in mutual funds that charged loads (for both senses of the word).

Here's the worst thing and my now-not-secret shame: at the time I did all this, I had already read two of Jack Bogle's books, including Common Sense on Mutual Funds, along with Walter Updegrave's mutual funds book. So I should have known better!

To top it off - or perhaps, thankfully - I had two old 401(k)s that I hadn't rolled into an IRA, so I didn't end up transferring that to them too.

It took me all of a few months with them before moving to Vanguard. Thankfully, I only lost a few percentages of the principal of $20,000 or so (I suppose there's opportunity cost too).

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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by lightheir »

Waited an entire year after learning about super-simple 2 or 3-fund investment plans before simplifying my portfolio.

It's SO nice now to have consolidating everything taxable into 2 simple indexed funds. Also makes it a lot easier to not get distracted - when you're keeping things as simple as possible, you really frown on things like single stock buys and other 'good investment deals of the moment' since they totally don't mesh with the simplicity of the plan.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by carolinaman »

I twice turned down job promotions to other cities due to priority considerations for quality of life and family. I never regretted either decision. In fact, from a career perspective, I think it worked out better the way I did it.
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Taylor Larimore
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Trying to "beat the market"

Post by Taylor Larimore »

What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?
For many years I was a financial newsletter junkie constantly trying to "beat the market." I even published my own market-timing newsletter. Needless to say, the whole thing was a disaster.

My personal market-timing experience is the primary reason I started the Boglehead Contest: To demonstrate how difficult it is to forecast the stock market.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by Kulak »

Back in 2002 I predicted that in the wake of Sarbanes-Oxley (and the requirement for CEOs to certify financials, with criminal liability) there would be widespread restatements and even more revelations major fraud like Enron and Worldcom. I bought into a "short the index" fund (BEARX) using borrowed money. That was expensive.
Depriving ourselves to boost our 40-year success probability much beyond 80% is a fool’s errand, since all you are doing is increasing the probability of failure for [non-financial] reasons. --wbern
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by NAD83 »

Two words (and ampersand): Waddell & Reed
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by StophJS »

Waiting right now for the markets to fall again before I establish positions in admiral shares funds.
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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by bottlecap »

I used to invest in individual stocks.

As long as you have good reasons for moving, such as liking the climate, why not do it? The pension thing is a bit of a bummer, but I'm not sure it ahould keep you living where you don't want to live. Besides, the minute she reitres, they'll cut that pension back! Maybe not, but it could happen...

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Re: What was your most Non-Boglehead-like move?

Post by epilnk »

Best decision we ever made was to move to a better climate. Expensive, but we could afford it. You only have one life to live. I don't know if that is Bogleheadish, though. The Bogleheads are good at investing, but after many years of reading this board I'd say on personal issues Boglehead moves run the gamut from wise, well thought out decisions all the way to really whopping boneheaded decisions. If your wife and kids really really really don't want to move and the finances are against you, relocation might be on the boneheaded end of that spectrum.
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