Grinch [delivered package theft]

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
0cean23
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:20 am

Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by 0cean23 »

I was expecting a package from Amazon today. It was scheduled to be deliver by UPS and the package status shows that it was delivered and left at front door. When I came home from work the package was gone. Luckily I have a home surveillance camera system. After viewing the DVR with the approximate time the package was delivered, I can see the UPS guy delivering the package to my home. Shortly after, about 20 minutes, a random guy approaches my home and steals my package and mail.

1. Should I report this to my local precinct?

2. Will the shipper(Amazon) reship another item?

3. Are postman suppose to put my mail inside the mail box instead of leaving my regular mail on the floor?
User avatar
tainted-meat
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by tainted-meat »

1. Should I report this to my local precinct? - Sure, why not?

2. Will the shipper(Amazon) reship another item? - Have you called Amazon's customer service?

3. Are postman suppose to put my mail inside the mail box instead of leaving my regular mail on the floor? - The postman (USPS) is different from the UPS man and will depend on the terms and conditions of the transaction.
livesoft
Posts: 86075
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by livesoft »

Of course you report this. In our neighborhood, the police will come to your house. Others in the neighborhood may have reported thefts, too.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
Johm221122
Posts: 6393
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 6:27 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Johm221122 »

livesoft wrote:Of course you report this. In our neighborhood, the police will come to your house. Others in the neighborhood may have reported thefts, too.
+1 with pictures from surveillance cameras they may have a good chance of catching him
John
Topic Author
0cean23
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:20 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by 0cean23 »

His face didn't come out clear in the video. But i will file a report tomorrow with the police
Mudpuppy
Posts: 7409
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:26 am
Location: Sunny California

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Mudpuppy »

This is becoming a very common issue in many areas. There was even a video of an elementary school kid stealing packages off people's porches in the news earlier this week. The local postmaster has a rule now that the USPS mail carriers are not to leave items if the person is not home (unless the carrier can fit it into a locking mail box). This was somewhat irksome when I had to travel to the post office just to pick up a $30 air filter that the hardware store did not have locally, but could have ordered and shipped directly to me, but I can see the post office's reasoning behind the policy. UPS and FedEx on the other hand will still leave at the door unless a signature is required or they are directed otherwise.

In the future, you might want to sign up for the online accounts provided by UPS and FedEx. These will alert you when a package is coming and you can redirect the package to be held at the customer service center if you are worried about theft. Most of these services are free, although UPS does charge if you want it redirected to a retail store instead of their sorting center ("will call" office). I do this for items of value or items which I can't wait for reshipment.
User avatar
Jerilynn
Posts: 1929
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: USA, Earth

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Jerilynn »

0cean23 wrote:
I was expecting a package from Amazon today. It was scheduled to be deliver by UPS and the package status shows that it was delivered and left at front door. When I came home from work the package was gone. Luckily I have a home surveillance camera system. After viewing the DVR with the approximate time the package was delivered, I can see the UPS guy delivering the package to my home. Shortly after, about 20 minutes, a random guy approaches my home and steals my package and mail.

2. Will the shipper(Amazon) reship another item?


Yes, call them up. I had an Amazon/UPS delivery that was supposedly delivered to my 'door by porch'. (I have no porch) Normally, it says 'front door'. In any event, there was no package to be found [actually it was 3 different packages, but that's not important.] I drove up and down the street, and there were no packages at any of the neighbor's. I assumed it was delivered to the wrong address and not stolen, but didn't know for sure.
Anyway, I called Amazon, told them the story and they re-shipped all 3 packages, no questions asked. About 5 days later, the packages just showed up on my doorstep. I guess it got delivered to the wrong people and they eventually dropped it off at my house. Called Amazon, told them the story, they sent me email to print return UPS labels at no charge to me and I sent 'em back.

3. Are postman suppose to put my mail inside the mail box instead of leaving my regular mail on the floor?
No idea what they are supposed to do. Was this an inside mailbox? My carrier puts the mail in the mail box (by the street), if it's an item that doesn't fit, she puts it on my front door step.

My UPS driver always rings the doorbell when he drops off. The Fed Ex guy and postal carrier NEVER ring the doorbell or knock, they just set it down and take off.
Cordially, Jeri . . . 100% all natural asset allocation. (no supernatural methods used)
User avatar
FordBiggs
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:53 pm
Location: New York

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by FordBiggs »

0cean23 wrote:1. Should I report this to my local precinct?

2. Will the shipper(Amazon) reship another item?

3. Are postman suppose to put my mail inside the mail box instead of leaving my regular mail on the floor?
1 - Yes and it seems like you already plan to file a police report.

2 - Yes! I had the same exact experience (although I wasn't sure if it was theft or just a wrong delivery on UPS) but basically, I ordered an electric heater from Amazon. I signed up for their "mobile service" (you should look into this if you haven't yet) - it's free and you get text messages on your shipment details if it was already shipped or it was already delivered with a time stamp. I got a message saying it was delivered but I did not see anything on our front door/side door. I called Amazon and told them what happened, they said they will "investigate" with UPS etc but for the mean time - they shipped another one at no extra charge. At this point, I was convinced that Amazon is an excellent company. Their customer service is unmatched! Also, I never got the original heater so I was not sure whether it was stolen from our porch or just got delivered to the wrong address (but they decided to keep it).

3 - I'm not so sure about this but I would think so. My mails are always in the mailbox except for boxes etc that are on the floor.
User avatar
flossy21
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 2:04 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by flossy21 »

Most credit card companies offer some kind of short term (30-60) no-loss incurance coverage as well on purchases. I would definitely call Amazon first but, if they refuse to ship again, then I would contact the credit card company.

I would also scoop up some dog poo and put in an Amazon box for your new friend. Maybe you can break him of his habit before he gets caught.
Cash
Posts: 1572
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:52 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Cash »

I've read countless stories about this lately. If you can't have packages shipped to your job, then I would recommend having them shipped to your local FedEx or UPS store. Amazon also has a service called "Amazon Locker" in some cities: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/ ... =200689010
JW-Retired
Posts: 7189
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:25 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by JW-Retired »

We got concerned with mail security long ago. One of our best home improvements was putting in a mail slot through the garage wall. All our mail falls into a big tub. No security worries or need to have someone to pick up the mail when we are away. Cutting that slot through a stucco wall wasn't easy but it was well worth it.

Not big enough for packages though. Mostly the delivery guys at least put them out-of-sight inside the courtyard gate. That's appreciated. :beer
JW
Retired at Last
dad2000
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:04 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by dad2000 »

I have anything valuable shipped to my job.

I did have one item either get stolen or misdelivered with Amazon, value of about $30. After calling them, they reshipped the item to me for free.
EthelT
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by EthelT »

I got a PO Box. It's a good solution for me since the Post office is nearby - no worrying about stolen mail or stopping service when I travel, etc. All I get at my house is flyers and such.

As an aside - I only pick up mail 2 or 3 times a week. I'm not quite sure why folks think they need to receive mail daily! Maybe that would be a good poll - do you really need daily home mail service?
User avatar
NAVigator
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by NAVigator »

The OP had a UPS package stolen. Under normal circumstances, a UPS package cannot be delivered to a USPS PO Box. The exception is the UPS Mail Innovations program; (UPS) Frequently Asked Questions

It is UPS company policy to NOT deliver any package to a USPS mailbox.

Jerry
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
EthelT
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by EthelT »

"The OP had a UPS package stolen. Under normal circumstances, a UPS package cannot be delivered to a USPS PO Box"

Right but stolen is stolen whether USPS home delivery or UPS. While that doesn't help the OP for this lost package, a PO box might be consideration in future. Most senders will offer shipping options. For example if you list a PO Box as delivery destination on Amazon, they send it FedEx Smartpost.

And there's always the option of having the package sent to the office (for folks who work). Mailorder wine has to be signed for in my state, so I have that sent to my office.
User avatar
Sheepdog
Posts: 5783
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:05 pm
Location: Indiana, retired 1998 at age 65

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Sheepdog »

UPS drivers here leave the packages either at the front door or our garage door which is on the side of the house at the rear. They don't always knock which is irksome because when I open the doors later and find packages there, I am surprised. I have never lost any, though.
Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered you will never grow. (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
User avatar
Boglenaut
Posts: 3509
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Boglenaut »

Sheepdog wrote:UPS drivers here leave the packages either at the front door or our garage door which is on the side of the house at the rear. They don't always knock which is irksome. I have never lost any, however.
Delivery people here used to ring the bell. Then they stopped doing that and just left them on the porch, so even if I was home I wouldn't know it came.

Now it seems it's OK to leave packages in our driveway half way between the house and sidewalk, and no bell ringing.

If it gets any worse, they'll just start leaving them on the tree lawn where the trash collectors can pick them up.
User avatar
linuxuser
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by linuxuser »

This morning one of the morning shows had a story about this very topic.
They showed surveillance videos of the thieves stealing outdoor inflatable decorations, etc.
A woman in TX was arrested based on the video and a tip to the police.


By the way, (18 U.S.C. 1725) says that no one can put anything in your mailbox except the USPS.
Even if your UPS package is small enough to fit inside your mailbox, they are not legally allowed to put it there.
User avatar
ryuns
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:07 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by ryuns »

JW Nearly Retired wrote:We got concerned with mail security long ago. One of our best home improvements was putting in a mail slot through the garage wall. All our mail falls into a big tub. No security worries or need to have someone to pick up the mail when we are away. Cutting that slot through a stucco wall wasn't easy but it was well worth it.

Not big enough for packages though. Mostly the delivery guys at least put them out-of-sight inside the courtyard gate. That's appreciated. :beer
JW
Mail slot is awesome, but I thought it was only in neighborhoods that have traditionally had slots? It sure is a heck of a lot of work for the mailman who parks at the end of the block and delivers all of the mail on foot to each front door, often in total darkness during the winter (yeah, I'm not sure why he's still working at 7 pm, but it happens). But I certainly don't mind--doesn't work for packages, but at least our USPS guy is pretty cognizant about security and at least keeps the package out of view from the street by tucking it behind the pillar on our porch.

None of this prevents someone from following a UPS truck or just cruising neighborhoods. Besides reporting this SOB, you could talk to your UPS driver, leave a note with instructions (again, if the person witnesses the truck, putting the package around the corner is unlikely to help), or ask a neighbor to grab a package. We do the latter when it's a particularly valuable item. UPS will let provide delivery confirmation, and then we can text our homemaker neighbor to snag the package.
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
User avatar
runner26
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:39 pm
Location: California

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by runner26 »

I had a package delivered from monoprice yesterday via a company I never heard of, NORCO. My spouse saw the guy out the window putting the package down, and went and opened the door to get the package and he was taking a picture of the package on the poarch. We were immediatly sent an e-mail with a picture of the package being delivered. The picture included the legs of my spouse who had just opened the door. This was great service.
harikaried
Posts: 2613
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:47 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by harikaried »

NAVigator wrote:It is UPS company policy to NOT deliver any package to a USPS mailbox.
I believe the main reason is actually federal regulation that enforces that one entity, USPS, is allowed to use the mailbox:

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/508.htm#1051804

"the receptacles .. may be used only for matter bearing postage.. no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle."

Some quotes from an about.com article:
The Postal Service is concerned only about public use of its mailboxes, or maintaining what it calls its "mailbox monopoly." Even though consumers purchase mailboxes with money out of their own pockets, the Postal Service is permitted under federal laws to dictate the terms of access to them.

Congress adopted the mailbox restriction in 1934, according to the Government Accountability Office, to "protect postal revenue by preventing delivery of unstamped matter to mailboxes."
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumera ... urself.htm
User avatar
telemark
Posts: 3389
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by telemark »

harikaried wrote: I believe the main reason is actually federal regulation that enforces that one entity, USPS, is allowed to use the mailbox:

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/508.htm#1051804

"the receptacles .. may be used only for matter bearing postage.. no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle."
Yes. When I was younger and more active politically I used to help with what they called "lit drops", distributing campaign literature around neighborhoods. They'd always warn us "don't put anything in the mail box, that's against the law."
User avatar
interplanetjanet
Posts: 2226
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:52 pm
Location: the wilds of central California

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by interplanetjanet »

linuxuser wrote:By the way, (18 U.S.C. 1725) says that no one can put anything in your mailbox except the USPS.
Even if your UPS package is small enough to fit inside your mailbox, they are not legally allowed to put it there.
This begs the question: what is considered to be a "mailbox"?

I have a metal box with a lid on an outside wall of my house that mail gets put into. There are no identifying marks on it of any kind, and it looks homemade. If I put another one out there and label one of them "USPS" and the other one "everyone else", does that magically make one into a mailbox and the other not?

Edit: looking up that regulation, I find "...any letter box established, approved, or accepted by the Postal Service for the receipt or delivery of mail matter". I doubt mine was "established" or "approved" in any official capacity, but "accepted" seems kind of vague. I guess that means once they condescend to start using it it's their turf.
rustymutt
Posts: 4001
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:03 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by rustymutt »

You have to ask if this should be reported to law enforcement?
Even educators need education. And some can be hard headed to the point of needing time out.
Mudpuppy
Posts: 7409
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:26 am
Location: Sunny California

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Mudpuppy »

EthelT wrote:And there's always the option of having the package sent to the office (for folks who work).
My employer does not allow us to receive personal packages or mail at work. I am sure there are other employers with similar policies. It's not always that simple.
barnaclebob
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by barnaclebob »

User avatar
linuxuser
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by linuxuser »

I guess UPS driver is under time pressure to deliver each package that they don't leave notices.
Per their website, http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resour ... del5a.html you are suppose to be able to select Will Call to pick the package up at their center.
User avatar
mike143
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by mike143 »

I order shoes online and was excited they had been delivered. I got home and no shoes. I call the courier and they noted that if I ever signed a door tag for them to leave a package it was valid for now on. I was basically SOL. I now have everything shipped to my work. Someone is running around in my size 13 Timberlands.
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.
JW-Retired
Posts: 7189
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:25 am

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by JW-Retired »

ryuns wrote: Mail slot is awesome, but I thought it was only in neighborhoods that have traditionally had slots?
Our neighborhood is one of those. The old box was just screwed to the wall next to where I put the slot in.
JW
Retired at Last
Sidney
Posts: 6784
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:06 pm

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by Sidney »

runner26 wrote:I had a package delivered from monoprice yesterday via a company I never heard of, NORCO. My spouse saw the guy out the window putting the package down, and went and opened the door to get the package and he was taking a picture of the package on the poarch. We were immediatly sent an e-mail with a picture of the package being delivered. The picture included the legs of my spouse who had just opened the door. This was great service.
Can't you take a picture of your spouse's legs?
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.
User avatar
runner26
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:39 pm
Location: California

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by runner26 »

Sidney wrote:
runner26 wrote:I had a package delivered from monoprice yesterday via a company I never heard of, NORCO. My spouse saw the guy out the window putting the package down, and went and opened the door to get the package and he was taking a picture of the package on the poarch. We were immediatly sent an e-mail with a picture of the package being delivered. The picture included the legs of my spouse who had just opened the door. This was great service.
Can't you take a picture of your spouse's legs?
I can't stop laughing! My frustrating trip to Costco is now forgotten. Thanks.
User avatar
plannerman
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:42 pm
Location: NC Mountains

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by plannerman »

On our local news this morning was a video clip from a surveillance camera of a Grinch stealing packages off a porch. The Grinch was an 8-year old little girl--who would have thunk?

plannerman
porcupine
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:05 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by porcupine »

runner26 wrote:
Sidney wrote:
runner26 wrote:I had a package delivered from monoprice yesterday via a company I never heard of, NORCO. My spouse saw the guy out the window putting the package down, and went and opened the door to get the package and he was taking a picture of the package on the poarch. We were immediatly sent an e-mail with a picture of the package being delivered. The picture included the legs of my spouse who had just opened the door. This was great service.
Can't you take a picture of your spouse's legs?
I can't stop laughing! My frustrating trip to Costco is now forgotten. Thanks.
Dang! Sidney beat me to it. I learned a new term earlier today (thanks Groupon, plus silly me that I did not know it previously), and I meant to use it in this context. Boudoir photography!
My frustrating trip to Costco is now forgotten.
I also noticed that a lot of folks appear to have woken up to the fact that the world ain't gonna end today, so presents need to be purchased pronto. Exit ramps off of the local interstate appear to be spilling back onto the interstate (especially those in the vicinity of malls).

- Porcupine
mptfan
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:58 am

Re: Damm Grinch around my neighborhood

Post by mptfan »

JW Nearly Retired wrote:We got concerned with mail security long ago. One of our best home improvements was putting in a mail slot through the garage wall. All our mail falls into a big tub. No security worries or need to have someone to pick up the mail when we are away. Cutting that slot through a stucco wall wasn't easy but it was well worth it.
You must live in an older established neighborhood. In most neighborhoods now, the mailman will not deliver mail to the door (at least that I have seen in Florida), the mailboxes are either on the street, or there are cluster boxes to serve a number of homes. In my neighborhood, all the mailboxes are on the street, and the mailman drives by in his truck and puts the mail in the mailbox without getting up or getting out of the truck. I'm quite sure that if I put a mail slot in my door or anywhere on my house, he would not deliver the mail there.
User avatar
linuxuser
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by linuxuser »

When I was living in a apartment, I really liked having a locked mailbox.
Mudpuppy
Posts: 7409
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:26 am
Location: Sunny California

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by Mudpuppy »

linuxuser wrote:When I was living in a apartment, I really liked having a locked mailbox.
You can have locking mailboxes at your house too. It just has to be postmaster-approved, which usually means it has a slot at the top for the mail which drops down into a larger locking box. That way, the carrier does not need a key because he/she just drops the mail into the slot. The size of the slot determines the size of items that can be dropped into the box. Also, small hands might be able to fish around through the slot for items, but it's a lot better than an open box. I have one of these at my house, and about half the neighbors also have locking boxes of many varieties.
User avatar
linuxuser
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by linuxuser »

I have one of those streetside mailboxes that the builder put in for "free".

I guess I'll have to seriously look around for a locking one.
whomever
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:21 pm

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by whomever »

FWIW, we put a large plastic trashcan by the garage door and put a sign on it and the gate into the front yard saying 'Packages in Blue Trashcan Please'. It works about 95% of the time - the package is out of sight and out of the rain. Ironically, when it doesn't work is usually during the Xmas season, probably because of temporary and rushed drivers.

It's no real security, of course, but a thief can't just drive by, he has to go to the trouble to walk down the drive and look inside. So far, so good :-).
Rodc
Posts: 13601
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:46 am

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by Rodc »

whomever wrote:FWIW, we put a large plastic trashcan by the garage door and put a sign on it and the gate into the front yard saying 'Packages in Blue Trashcan Please'. It works about 95% of the time - the package is out of sight and out of the rain. Ironically, when it doesn't work is usually during the Xmas season, probably because of temporary and rushed drivers.

It's no real security, of course, but a thief can't just drive by, he has to go to the trouble to walk down the drive and look inside. So far, so good :-).
Like protecting your trash from raccoons, it does not have to be critter proof, it just has to be more hassle than raiding your neighbors trash.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
littlebird
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:05 pm
Location: Valley of the Sun, AZ

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by littlebird »

:oops: Surprised no one has cited this yet:
ups-guy-caught-taking-ipad-from-doorstep


http://www.newser.com/story/159748/ups- ... gn=rss_3_2
Rodc
Posts: 13601
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:46 am

Re: Grinch [delivered package theft]

Post by Rodc »

littlebird wrote::oops: Surprised no one has cited this yet:
ups-guy-caught-taking-ipad-from-doorstep


http://www.newser.com/story/159748/ups- ... gn=rss_3_2
Had an iPadMini delivered and the package had nothing I could find that identified what was in the package or even that it came from apple. I figured it was very much on purpose to deter this sort of thing. Good to as recipient got home before I did.

So many people have camera systems that I'm surprised a delivery person would not think of it.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
Post Reply