Windows 8 on a real PC?

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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby ResNullius » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:42 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:From reading some of the reviews, my inclination would be to stick with Win 7, especially since you don't have a touch screen. And toss in the fact that it's currently working just fine seems to make it a no-brainer.

I'm staying with XP for as long as I can get security unpdates, which I think expire sometime in 2014.
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby gd » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:35 pm

Re: windows 7 gadgets being shut down, I discovered that security issue after posting. I think it makes the comment more relevant here-- first (and probably superficially), W8 has loudly-touted behaviors very similar to gadgets-- active descktop thumbnails (to make up a description). So to discover that W7 has horrible security flaws with such a thing... a little disconcerting. Second, for MS to have such a profound security flaw that they would simply try to shut down a feature, after all the years of being scorned for security flaws and supposedly getting religion some years ago (something about Gates telling the company to regroup and fix the problems, yes?)... I really want to dislike Apple, but geez, MS makes it really hard. I stand by my image of design by corporate meetings. Jobs is laughing at them in heaven/hell, take your pick. I'd pass on W8 for a while.
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby Easy Rhino » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:37 am

I installed it on my desktop a while back (was looking for a cheap way to get off Vista).

The Metro interface is, well, totally not suited for me as a desktop user. I mean, even the side-scrolling (vs vertical) kind of irks me.

So I pretty quickly bail to the desktop, and since I've only been using a couple different programs lately, it's been fine. I actually like the built in IE A lot more than older versions. maybe even more than Chrome.

So i'm able to fairly happily use the Metro interface as little more than a start screen.

... I haven't yet installed one of the after-market start buttons, but I'll probably do it eventually.
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby bUU » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:53 am

ResNullius wrote:
Mel Lindauer wrote:From reading some of the reviews, my inclination would be to stick with Win 7, especially since you don't have a touch screen. And toss in the fact that it's currently working just fine seems to make it a no-brainer.

I'm staying with XP for as long as I can get security unpdates, which I think expire sometime in 2014.
April 8, 2014
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby bUU » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:02 am

gd wrote:Second, for MS to have such a profound security flaw that they would simply try to shut down a feature, after all the years of being scorned for security flaws and supposedly getting religion some years ago (something about Gates telling the company to regroup and fix the problems, yes?)... I really want to dislike Apple, but geez, MS makes it really hard. I stand by my image of design by corporate meetings. Jobs is laughing at them in heaven/hell, take your pick. I'd pass on W8 for a while.
This is again putting a nefarious face on something that is not nefarious at all. There has never been an OS provider that has put as much effort into security as Microsoft. I challenge you, based on your knowledge of the industry, to suggest which OS provider has. Microsoft was never lax, in that regard, vis a vis prevailing industry standards. Apple was never better in that regard. Never. Microsoft simply was the biggest and therefore most of the attention of exploiters was focused on seeking exploits within Windows. It's a bit like criticizing a monopoly for losing market share when competitors enter the market. It's like criticizing a company because 1+1=2.

Full Disclosure: Though I have assessed the operations of literally dozens of software companies, I actually have never worked for Microsoft in any way. I have no vested interest in defending their actions, and also have no obligations to keep any information I know about them secret.

With regard to the practice of removing features for a variety of reasons (not just security)... this isn't uncommon. It generally doesn't affect end-users much but sometimes it does. Apple removed support for AppleTalk in the upgrade to OS X Snow Leopard, for example.
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby umfundi » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:37 am

There's another angle on the Microsoft security issue, which is that of the democratization and usefulness of their software.

Microsoft's heritage is making software that is useful for end users. That Windows has vulnerabilities is to some extent more a reflection of the number of attackers than the inherent weaknesses. Yes, there are operating systems that are potentially more secure. They are much less useful.

The vulnerability goes hand in hand with the usefulness and flexibility.

Excel is a great example. It is the most popular engineering tool on the planet. Yet, IT and engineering managers have fits that their users trade Excel spreadsheets via e-mail, change formulas, have no version or configuration control, etc. The inmates are in charge of the asylum.

Yes, you could lock Excel down (perhaps) to use only approved calculations. And, not allow it as an e-mail attachment. It would then not be very useful.

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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby gd » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:54 am

I understand that historically MS is a more attractive target in terms of size and design, having revolutionized the world specifically by making an accessible platform (that's a complement! Gates changed the world far more than Jobs did, and still is in different ways). But iPhones and iPads are at the top of the heap today, and if there are app security problems comparable to W7 gadgets I've not heard of it. They may have achieved this partly by a walled garden (which I strongly dislike), but results are results. I can't even get MS-developed gadgets any more. From MS gadgets web site: "Because we want to focus on the exciting possibilities of the newest version of Windows, the Windows website no longer hosts the gadget gallery. " Not exactly a forthright statement. I like W7, and I like the gadgets. W8 may be great, and I hope it is-- I'd like to see multiple thriving platforms. If I was a technophile, I'd have one already just to play with it. But I would wait a year before relying on it for my sole computer device.
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby bUU » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:03 am

They may have achieved this partly by a walled garden (which I strongly dislike), but results are results.

Which is why Microsoft is doing the same, going forward, i.e., eliminating the insecure technologies, like gadgets. You'll see Windows 8 as more of a "walled garden" - perhaps with walls not so high as Apple, and therefore, from your perspective (given that you "strongly dislike" "walled gardens") a better balance.

Not exactly a forthright statement.

In what way? Do you really expect them to say, "We hate you so we're taking away your toys?" :confused
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby segfault » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:01 pm

I bought a desktop for a customer and did the $15 Win8 upgrade at their request. As others have noted, you can buy the upgrade and license key now and burn a DVD to install later, which is something I would consider doing.

I'm impressed that Microsoft seems to be moving away from the $100+ upgrade prices of yesteryear, but I prefer the Windows 7 interface to Windows 8. The upgrade assistant reported no compatibility issues, but Windows 8 still seems to have some teething issues on the machine I bought. There were 1 or 2 critical updates which always resulted in an error and a failed installation. I assume this is something that will be resolved in the first service pack.
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby umfundi » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:32 pm

mmmodem wrote:
Do I have to install the Windows 8 upgrade on the eligible PC, or can I install it on another PC?
The upgrade offer is tied to a Windows 7 PC purchased from June 2nd, 2012 through January 31, 2013, but you can choose to redeem the offer and install the upgrade on any compatible Windows-based PC with a qualifying base operating system.

http://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-US/Home/Faq
Install it on your XP machine.

Which I am now doing. However, I think that once I have the product key, I am done.

With the key in my pocket, I can download Win8 and install it on any machine I choose. I believe ...

Keith

Edit: Spoke too soon. After downloading, it gave me the option of making a bootable USB drive. Completely painless, though it took a while. USB must be at leat 3 GB, it erases all existing files.
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby geekpryde » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:06 am

I've installed win8 three times (once as an RC). I really hated it the first few days I was playing with it, as I LOVE a traditional desktop like Win7. I maintain 50 Windows 7 pro machines where I work, and pretty much love Windows 7 as the perfect OS.

The second time I installed it on a machine, I hated it about the same as the first time, and quickly rejected the notion of upgrading all our work machines, which I had done on day 1 for Windows 7, and Windows Vista before it. Well, Day 1 came and past with no production windows 8 machines on the LAN. Recently, an employee asked if he could have it, and I said sure, as long as he wanted to be the company guinea pig. Well, after a clean install, adding office 2013, a ton of work related software suites, (including CS6), and being forced to play with Windows 8 for a few additional hours, I have to modify my first two impressions.

Instead of 100% pure hatred for Win8, I would say I only strongly dislike it now. Maybe it will continue to grow on me?

P.s. The employee mentioned above really likes Win8, a spouse of a different employee I did a win8 install for also really likes, and also I have to admit I LOVE my Windows Phone HTC 8x. My recommendation would be to stick with Windows 7 for your desktop, and get a windows 8 phone. :-)
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Re: Windows 8 on a real PC?

Postby thebogledude » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:13 am

I have win 7, also doing lite stuff on it. happy with it so no plans to go to win 8.
I really like what apple is doing with macbooks. (if they put an a-chip and make it in the US, i'll seriously consider it as an upgrade path).
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