Early retirement overseas?

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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:23 pm

reggiesimpson wrote:Take a look at India. The English influence is still predominant in their culture especially the English language.


If I decided to retire abroad, India would be high on my list. I have close Indian friends and like many aspects of their culture.

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby hicabob » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:43 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
reggiesimpson wrote:Take a look at India. The English influence is still predominant in their culture especially the English language.


If I decided to retire abroad, India would be high on my list. I have close Indian friends and like many aspects of their culture.

Victoria


India seems interesting but they do seem to have a prodigious lack of toilets for an up and coming country. Apparently less than 1/2 indian citizens have access to a toilet ... in the countryside only 10%. I suppose one gets used to squatting on the plank over the ditch but I prefer my Toto.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:49 pm

hicabob wrote:I suppose one gets used to squatting on the plank over the ditch but I prefer my Toto.


Squatting is healthy.

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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby jridger2011 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:00 pm

One thing not mentioned, in most places listed for retirement, generally speaking, life is very difficult if you are ever in need of a wheelchair, folks in those parts are either lifelong walkers (public transportation isn't very good) who are able to stand/walk until the day they die or slightly wealthy enough to have some hired help. I'm not sure how many paved streets you will find in a lot of those countries, even in the large cities, it's not common to find entrances/bathrooms meant for wheelchairs.

Squat toilets are not a problem for many people in those countries since they are used to it, they have built up a lifetime of comfort with it, when I used one for the first time, I felt really uncomfortable at first but over a period of weeks it was much better. That is truly the kind of stuff that keeps you literally on your feet and in good shape.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby HongKonger » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:04 pm

For anyone considering China, you only need to read this: http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/polit ... ing-china/

Gweilo in rural China. Not happening.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby reggiesimpson » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:28 pm

The recent movie "The Marigold Hotel" was an instant hit in England and U.S. All about the trials and tribulations regarding retirement in India for a group of Westerners. Terrific cast that had to compete with the awesome backdrop of India.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby dgdevil » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:51 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
mike143 wrote:I wonder how many people are having this discussion of retiring to the United States.


Because of the health care and other issues, I believe it is almost impossible. You have to have worked there for some years before retirement. Also I think the visa situation is difficult/ impossible now?

The vast majority of Canadians who 'retire' to Florida or Arizona do it for 6 months a year less 1 day. Because at 6 months + 1 day they still qualify for Canadian provincial healthcare. Condo in Toronto, place in Florida. Spend the winters down there, and the summers back home (where in any case those places are really too hot for a lot of Canadians).


Healthcare for expats in USA is not really a problem. You get long-term travel insurance from your home country to cover emergencies, and bargain out-of-pocket for other visits. The major issue is the visa. You will likely have to come in as a tourist for 90-day spells. But I imagine over the next few decades that the USA will be forced to follow the progressive pro-retiree lead of Asian and Latin American nations. Actually, second thoughts (and I'm not straying into politics!).
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby cbeck » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:45 pm

reggiesimpson wrote:Take a look at India. The English influence is still predominant in their culture especially the English language.


No retirement visa for India. You have to leave for six months at a time.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby sharke » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:42 pm

The Living Abroad book series by Moon looks like a good resource for use in evaluating retirement in a specific country:
http://www.moon.com/books/moon-living-abroad
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby TheGreyingDuke » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:10 pm

dgdevil wrote: The major issue is the visa. You will likely have to come in as a tourist for 90-day spells. But I imagine over the next few decades that the USA will be forced to follow the progressive pro-retiree lead of Asian and Latin American nations. Actually, second thoughts (and I'm not straying into politics!).


Already happening, invest $500,000 and you and your family are in; green cards right off and on a path to citizenship. This has been an issue here in China recently as it has been reported that each year thousands of China's wealthiest are providing themselves an alternative to life here in the PRC.

http://www.eb5-visa.net/
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby dgdevil » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:31 pm

TheGreyingDuke wrote:
dgdevil wrote: The major issue is the visa. You will likely have to come in as a tourist for 90-day spells. But I imagine over the next few decades that the USA will be forced to follow the progressive pro-retiree lead of Asian and Latin American nations. Actually, second thoughts (and I'm not straying into politics!).


Already happening, invest $500,000 and you and your family are in; green cards right off and on a path to citizenship. This has been an issue here in China recently as it has been reported that each year thousands of China's wealthiest are providing themselves an alternative to life here in the PRC.

http://www.eb5-visa.net/


That's an investment visa. Most countries have something like that. Retirement visas, you have to show you have a certain income flow each month. Like Brazil, for example:

Applicants must provide official documentation stating a minimum pension of R$ 6,000.00, equivalent to US$ 3,600.00 (three thousand six hundred dollars) a month per person plus 2 (two) dependents for their life term, as well as bank statement verifying service for regular transfers to Brazil.

http://losangeles.itamaraty.gov.br/en-u ... .xml#VIPER
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Lon » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:21 am

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/most-inte ... 21378.html
Pretty neat place-------I spent three weeks there in 2010
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby dgdevil » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:27 am

Lon wrote:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/most-interesting-retirement-spot-youve-205421378.html
Pretty neat place-------I spent three weeks there in 2010


Hate to sound like a wuss, but she lost me at "unparalleled exotic wildlife"
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby DouglasDoug » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:16 am

Why not Mexico? I've heard there are sizable expat communities there. And not far away.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Faith20879 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:47 pm

Thanks for the thread. It's been very educational.

We have thought long and hard on this. Both DH and I have worked overseas for extended period in our career so retiring overseas is not a totally foreign concept. However, our concern has been if we can do it for the "long term". If I am still healthy and mobile, changes can be easily adapted to. But once my health starts to dwindle, I may feel more vulnerable in a land that's not native to me, especially if a different language. I imagine it's pretty daunting to have to deal with arranging for daily care assistant in a system that I am not familiar with and while I am already feeling feeble. Eventually, I imagine I’ll have to come home to face the high health, living, or whatever cost.

I am wondering if the “long timers” could share your thoughts or the arrangements you’ve made in this aspect?

Thanks,
Faith
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby HueyLD » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:01 pm

DouglasDoug wrote:Why not Mexico? I've heard there are sizable expat communities there. And not far away.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _5815.html

"Travel Warning
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Bureau of Consular Affairs
Mexico
November 20, 2012
...
Nevertheless, U.S. travelers should be aware that the Mexican government has been engaged in an extensive effort to counter TCOs which engage in narcotics trafficking and other unlawful activities throughout Mexico. The TCOs themselves are engaged in a violent struggle to control drug trafficking routes and other criminal activity. As a result, crime and violence are serious problems throughout the country and can occur anywhere. U.S. citizens have fallen victim to TCO activity, including homicide, gun battles, kidnapping, carjacking and highway robbery.
....
Gun battles between rival TCOs or with Mexican authorities have taken place in towns and cities in many parts of Mexico, especially in the border region. Gun battles have occurred in broad daylight on streets and in other public venues, such as restaurants and clubs. During some of these incidents, U.S. citizens have been trapped and temporarily prevented from leaving the area. TCOs use stolen cars and trucks to create roadblocks on major thoroughfares, preventing the military and police from responding to criminal activity. The location and timing of future armed engagements is unpredictable. We recommend that you defer travel to the areas indicated in this Travel Warning and to exercise extreme caution when traveling throughout the northern border region.

The number of kidnappings and disappearances throughout Mexico is of particular concern. Both local and expatriate communities have been victimized. In addition, local police have been implicated in some of these incidents. We strongly advise you to lower your profile and avoid displaying any evidence of wealth that might draw attention.
..........."
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby dgdevil » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:24 pm

Foreign nations could justifiably issue similar alerts on USA in the light of recent events.

Anyway, you conveniently omitted the intro:

Millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year for study, tourism, and business, including more than 150,000 who cross the border every day. The Mexican government makes a considerable effort to protect U.S. citizens and other visitors to major tourist destinations, and there is no evidence that Transnational Criminal Organizations (TCOs) have targeted U.S. visitors and residents based on their nationality. Resort areas and tourist destinations in Mexico generally do not see the levels of drug-related violence and crime reported in the border region and in areas along major trafficking routes.

PS - US government employees banned from strip clubs in certain areas of Mexico - that's a hardship posting!
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Valuethinker » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:20 pm

hicabob wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
reggiesimpson wrote:Take a look at India. The English influence is still predominant in their culture especially the English language.


If I decided to retire abroad, India would be high on my list. I have close Indian friends and like many aspects of their culture.

Victoria


India seems interesting but they do seem to have a prodigious lack of toilets for an up and coming country. Apparently less than 1/2 indian citizens have access to a toilet ... in the countryside only 10%. I suppose one gets used to squatting on the plank over the ditch but I prefer my Toto.


It's easy to overstate the English influence in India.

The country has been independent for over 60 years. The cultures have diverged a lot. Many Indians may have a certain nostalgia for the Raj arising out of the corruption and problems of modern India, but the country is in the throes of modernization and its population has expanded vastly. It is a bit like China minus 30 years and will go through the same wrenching and dramatic changes. Cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Calcutta are no longer just charming quasi-colonial towns, they are thrusting metropoli with 10s of millions of people.

Yes English is the lingua franca amongst educated Indians, but outside the big cities it's less common.

Those English, as in that movie, who do retire in India usually had some roots there eg they were there pre indepdendence.

Or they are British of Indian origin and possibly birth, and returning to their homeland.

India would be a fascinating place to live for a few years, but I would not see it as a long term retirement destination unless you were very adaptable.

A modern apartment in Mumbai, btw, with backup generator in the building etc. (power cuts especially during heat waves are lengthy and ocnstant) would cost you at least as much as New York, if not more. That would also be true of Bangalore say, I suspect.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Valuethinker » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:37 pm

I must admit I think the US has huge geographic and social diversity and choices in ways of life, etc

The kind of retirement life you might have in Memphis is different from Asheville, from New Hampshire, from Brooklyn, from Portland, from Arizona, from Nevada, from Hawaii-- and even between the islands in Hawaii.

Now I understand the generic concerns -- healthcare costs, taxes, crime.

Other countries have similar issues. Healthcare here (UK) is free at point of dispense BUT there are issues with waiting and generally the more interventionist forms of treatment are often not practised. Crime? We have less gun crime than you do, but plenty of breakins, pickpocketing, theft from cars and anti-social offences. As you get older that can be quite frightening-- graffiti, kids being rude or hostile on the street, road rage etc.

There are people who prey on old people in every country in the world, alas. Conmen, criminals, people who 'know best' and do not accord the old respect and the freedom to make their own decisions.

Many Brits move to Spain for the weather. Many regret it and wish they could move back, but can no longer afford the housing--- particularly in very old age.

Dealing with Spanish healthcare and social services, even if your Spanish is good (most Brits live in little enclaves associating mostly with other Brits) is difficult.

I dread the thought of living in some little expat enclave bitching about the locals, hanging with other expats. But I don't really speak any foreign lanugage adequately.

If you have grandkids or family being a long way away from them becomes more difficult as you get older, especially if your partner becomes ill or dies. A lot of couples move to Spain, one dies, the other is terribly lonely. What if one of you requires institutional care?

In other words, living for a few years abroad in retirement is not a bad plan. Or do house swaps.

But in the end, is the USA not a diverse enough place that you can find somewhere there that meets your needs?


I write this having a morbid fear of 'retirement communities' like you get in Arizona, say. But, who knows, maybe some day that will appeal more, as my ability to live with the chaos and challenge of daily life in ordinary cities and suburbs diminishes.

Someone once said, wisely, that if you don't find meaningful hobbies and commitments in retirement, you became an 'old person' basically complaining about your health, and about various nefarious plans by government or your relatives to get *your* money. Even subscribing to conspiracy theories.

You don't want to be like that. Until the day of his untimely accidental death in his 80s, my father was a man who walked every day, who was engaged in civic planning meetings, talks and dinners at the university, geneology, hhistorical association etc. A man I could spend an hour on the phone to talking about current events and challenges in energy, politics etc.

All I can say is this. Try to be near friends and family, or at least where you can reach friends and family. And mental stimulation: be it sports, libraries, culture.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Valuethinker » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:42 pm

dgdevil wrote:
Healthcare for expats in USA is not really a problem. You get long-term travel insurance from your home country to cover emergencies, and bargain out-of-pocket for other visits. The major issue is the visa. You will likely have to come in as a tourist for 90-day spells. But I imagine over the next few decades that the USA will be forced to follow the progressive pro-retiree lead of Asian and Latin American nations. Actually, second thoughts (and I'm not straying into politics!).


I am not aware that for a Brit, or a Canadian, say, there is such a thing. You can buy a policy that gives you a certain number of days, but the loading on policies that work in the USA is usually double because of healthcare costs. Canadians tend to visit the US for 6 months less 1 day, for that reason-- relatively few retire permanently there unless they have American connections-- serious healthcare matters are best dealt with at home. Many however winter there.

Maybe it is a US Canada thing but visa does not appear to be a problem for Canadian retirees in America.

'bargain out of pocket'? When you are old, you have a host of chronic conditions that require regular visits and prescriptions. Both of my parents lived into their 80s in relatively good health, but that's certainly my observation.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Valuethinker » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:47 pm

reggiesimpson wrote:The recent movie "The Marigold Hotel" was an instant hit in England and U.S. All about the trials and tribulations regarding retirement in India for a group of Westerners. Terrific cast that had to compete with the awesome backdrop of India.


I don't know how realistic it is. In that Brits who do that tend to have roots in India from the days of the Raj (them or their parents) or to be British of Asian origin (Asian= South Asian).

An older BBC series 'staying on' about an English couple growing old and dying in a HIll Station (town where people retreated to in the Raj to get away from the summer heat) was probably more realistic. Same sort of touching stories about British expats in Spain, btw.

The new India does not have the same reverence for the British (although in general a greater respect for old people in the culture). It is brash, thrusting, materialistic, aggressive. India is on the move. Not such a nice place in many ways, although the people are stil fabulous.

There is an arbitrage here-- Britain has some of the highest housing prices in Europe. Sell move somewhere cheaper on the Continent. But you can only do that once, and only one way.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Valuethinker » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:50 pm

I once met a wonderful woman.

A retired professor of music, she had moved to near the campus of the University of Houston, to spend her time around young people attending concerts, recitals etc.

In her declining years her life was about her first love, music, and spending it around people of all ages pursuing that.

It seemed like such a wonderful way to end your days.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Valuethinker » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:56 pm

Sorry I read another story once, in the New York Times.

It was in Miami or Miami Beach, a 79 year old woman from New York, born in Austria-- a refugee from that horror of mid 20th century Mittleuropa.

Her 79th birthday was spent trolling the old age homes, getting the old out to vote in a US election (this was 2004).

that was how she was spending her days, 100% committed to doing things for the greater good, for what she believed in, for a the cause of American democracy. Having seen democracy snuffed out in her homeland and the mass murder that followed, in her adopted land she would not let it be snuffed out.

A story that then, and as I type it, still brings a tear to my eyes.

I live surrounded by Jews, and that is how they tend to see the world-- in Toronto or in London. A friend of my father's, survivor of the Holocaust and Auschwitz as a boy, wrote to me 'I must go now to raise money for the opera house-- I hope to see Toronto with an opera house before I die'.

They seem to never let go of that engagement with the greater whole and the greater good.

There's something in that for all of us, I think.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby dgdevil » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:06 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
dgdevil wrote:
Healthcare for expats in USA is not really a problem. You get long-term travel insurance from your home country to cover emergencies, and bargain out-of-pocket for other visits. The major issue is the visa. You will likely have to come in as a tourist for 90-day spells. But I imagine over the next few decades that the USA will be forced to follow the progressive pro-retiree lead of Asian and Latin American nations. Actually, second thoughts (and I'm not straying into politics!).


I am not aware that for a Brit, or a Canadian, say, there is such a thing. You can buy a policy that gives you a certain number of days, but the loading on policies that work in the USA is usually double because of healthcare costs. Canadians tend to visit the US for 6 months less 1 day, for that reason-- relatively few retire permanently there unless they have American connections-- serious healthcare matters are best dealt with at home. Many however winter there.

Maybe it is a US Canada thing but visa does not appear to be a problem for Canadian retirees in America.

'bargain out of pocket'? When you are old, you have a host of chronic conditions that require regular visits and prescriptions. Both of my parents lived into their 80s in relatively good health, but that's certainly my observation.


Canadian snowbirds come in under a B-2 tourist visa allowing them to stay for six months. They are quite well organized at the political level and are lobbying US legislators for a special retiree visa allowing them to stay for 8 months in a year. Good for them, I guess.

Not sure what travel insurance options are available to Brits or Canadians, but I have Southern Cross from Down Under with an annual premium of about $1,000 and a deductible of $500 - for emergencies. Alas, it is available only to those under 80. Yes, I realize that when I get to old age and am beating a regular path to all manner of health professionals, the cash payments will mount. Still, tomorrow is not promised to any of us. Time to live ...
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:10 pm

Valuethinker wrote:I once met a wonderful woman.

A retired professor of music, she had moved to near the campus of the University of Houston, to spend her time around young people attending concerts, recitals etc.

In her declining years her life was about her first love, music, and spending it around people of all ages pursuing that.

It seemed like such a wonderful way to end your days.


Hi Valuethinker,

From what I've heard, Sarasota, FL is also a wonderful place for the arts.

I think one can split retirement into two parts. This thread is about early retirement, and the "early" part--up to the age of 70 or 75--could be spent in many parts of the world. For the later part one could return to the U.S. and settle in the best place for his remaining needs.

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Fallible » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:23 pm

Valuethinker wrote:I once met a wonderful woman.

A retired professor of music, she had moved to near the campus of the University of Houston, to spend her time around young people attending concerts, recitals etc.

In her declining years her life was about her first love, music, and spending it around people of all ages pursuing that.

It seemed like such a wonderful way to end your days.


A lovely story and thank you. I think the only way to end one's days is to do what you love and were meant to do no matter where it may be. This lacks the topic's overseas angle, but your story reminds me of a similar story in the '90s about an elderly Iowa woman whose goal was to have a one-woman show of her paintings in New York City. If I remember it right, she had raised a family in Iowa and then decided, against the wishes of her family, to go to NYC alone and realize her dream. At 96, she got her show and then, partly because of increasing health problems, returned to Iowa where she died. Her quest was written up in the national media, but I've not been able to find any of the articles. I remember letters to the editor from older people, especially artists, who were immensely inspired by this woman's determination and even courage.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby chaz » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:27 pm

Fallible wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:I once met a wonderful woman.

A retired professor of music, she had moved to near the campus of the University of Houston, to spend her time around young people attending concerts, recitals etc.

In her declining years her life was about her first love, music, and spending it around people of all ages pursuing that.

It seemed like such a wonderful way to end your days.


A lovely story and thank you. I think the only way to end one's days is to do what you love and were meant to do no matter where it may be. This lacks the topic's overseas angle, but your story reminds me of a similar story in the '90s about an elderly Iowa woman whose goal was to have a one-woman show of her paintings in New York City. If I remember it right, she had raised a family in Iowa and then decided, against the wishes of her family, to go to NYC alone and realize her dream. At 96, she got her show and then, partly because of increasing health problems, returned to Iowa where she died. Her quest was written up in the national media, but I've not been able to find any of the articles. I remember letters to the editor from older people, especially artists, who were immensely inspired by this woman's determination and even courage.

It's wonderful to be able to do what gives you pleasure in your declining years.
Chaz

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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby littlebird » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:01 pm

I hope most people are not contemplating retirement overseas JUST for financial reasons, because I can assure you that, at least in Sun City and Sun City West AZ you can live a comfortable, amenity-rich, low-stress life for very little money. To be specific about how little money (and I know how important specifics are), when I moved here 20 years ago there was a saying: "Sun City West; Where millionaires live like millionaires on $30,000 a year'". It was true then and, with a little added for inflation (and not including extravagant travel) it's true now.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Fallible » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:18 pm

chaz wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:I once met a wonderful woman.

A retired professor of music, she had moved to near the campus of the University of Houston, to spend her time around young people attending concerts, recitals etc.

In her declining years her life was about her first love, music, and spending it around people of all ages pursuing that.

It seemed like such a wonderful way to end your days.


A lovely story and thank you. I think the only way to end one's days is to do what you love and were meant to do no matter where it may be. This lacks the topic's overseas angle, but your story reminds me of a similar story in the '90s about an elderly Iowa woman whose goal was to have a one-woman show of her paintings in New York City. If I remember it right, she had raised a family in Iowa and then decided, against the wishes of her family, to go to NYC alone and realize her dream. At 96, she got her show and then, partly because of increasing health problems, returned to Iowa where she died. Her quest was written up in the national media, but I've not been able to find any of the articles. I remember letters to the editor from older people, especially artists, who were immensely inspired by this woman's determination and even courage.

It's wonderful to be able to do what gives you pleasure in your declining years.


Right on, Chaz. :happy
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby dgdevil » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:27 pm

chaz wrote: It's wonderful to be able to do what gives you pleasure in your declining years.


No need to wait until then.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby chaz » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:38 pm

dgdevil wrote:
chaz wrote: It's wonderful to be able to do what gives you pleasure in your declining years.


No need to wait until then.

I didn't. But I did get older.
Chaz

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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Barefootgirl » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:24 am

This is an interesting thread, thank you and a timely one for me.

My significant other was born and raised in Lima, Peru. His family is still there, with an upper middle class lifestyle - home in Lima, another at the oceanfront, south of the city.

He often speaks of eventually retiring with me - in a situation where we live part of the year in Lima and the rest here in the US, likely travelling with the seasons. This opens a can of worms for me in terms of planning, but it is interesting to consider.

Some days, I can't figure out why he doesn't return to that lifestyle, the irony being that he workers harder here in the U.S. for less, but I suppose that is a different topic altogether.

I am interested in learning more about Peru, the culture and options available there, obviously.

Again, thank you, BFG
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:I am interested in learning more about Peru, the culture and options available there, obviously.


Check out some novels by Mario Vargas Llosa. "Captain Pantoja and the Special Service" is hilarious. Also try to find some films by Francisco José Lombardi.

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby HomerJ » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:00 pm

Valuethinker wrote:I once met a wonderful woman.

A retired professor of music, she had moved to near the campus of the University of Houston, to spend her time around young people attending concerts, recitals etc.

In her declining years her life was about her first love, music, and spending it around people of all ages pursuing that.

It seemed like such a wonderful way to end your days.


I met an old guy once at an outside bar in Lawrence, KS (University of Kansas). He was retired, but taking two classes every semester just for fun... He came to the same outside bar every Friday afternoon to drink a few beers and people-watch. I had a very interesting 30-minute conversation with him.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby HomerJ » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:03 pm

VictoriaF wrote:From what I've heard, Sarasota, FL is also a wonderful place for the arts.


My adult daughter lives in Sarasota, and is heavily involved in the theatre community there. Quite a mix of old people and young people in that town.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby rr2 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:36 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
hicabob wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
reggiesimpson wrote:Take a look at India. The English influence is still predominant in their culture especially the English language.


If I decided to retire abroad, India would be high on my list. I have close Indian friends and like many aspects of their culture.

Victoria


India seems interesting but they do seem to have a prodigious lack of toilets for an up and coming country. Apparently less than 1/2 indian citizens have access to a toilet ... in the countryside only 10%. I suppose one gets used to squatting on the plank over the ditch but I prefer my Toto.


It's easy to overstate the English influence in India.

The country has been independent for over 60 years. The cultures have diverged a lot. Many Indians may have a certain nostalgia for the Raj arising out of the corruption and problems of modern India, but the country is in the throes of modernization and its population has expanded vastly. It is a bit like China minus 30 years and will go through the same wrenching and dramatic changes. Cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Calcutta are no longer just charming quasi-colonial towns, they are thrusting metropoli with 10s of millions of people.

Yes English is the lingua franca amongst educated Indians, but outside the big cities it's less common.

Those English, as in that movie, who do retire in India usually had some roots there eg they were there pre indepdendence.

Or they are British of Indian origin and possibly birth, and returning to their homeland.

India would be a fascinating place to live for a few years, but I would not see it as a long term retirement destination unless you were very adaptable.

A modern apartment in Mumbai, btw, with backup generator in the building etc. (power cuts especially during heat waves are lengthy and ocnstant) would cost you at least as much as New York, if not more. That would also be true of Bangalore say, I suspect.

I grew up in India and have been in the US since graduate school. I often dream of going back to retire in India. Living is inexpensive if you rent instead of buying. Inflation is quite high. The government is aiming to keep it at 5-6% instead of double digits. But living can be quite difficult if you are used to first world standards. Most places have regular power outages of a few hours typically in the middle of the day. The bureaucracy is a mess and getting things done usually involves money under the table. The traffic in big cities is horrible. The cities are dirty and polluted. So if you want to move there, you need a good reason that would make you overlook all these faults. For me, the biggest draws are family and food. But even then, I hesitate.

PS: Routine health care is dirt cheap by US standards. Anecdotal experience: a four week stay in a top hospital for cerebral hemorrhage surgery which included two weeks in ICU came to under US$15k a few years ago. But often the really rich in India prefer to come to the US for advanced medical treatment esp. Cancer treatments.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:52 pm

reggiesimpson wrote:The recent movie "The Marigold Hotel" was an instant hit in England and U.S. All about the trials and tribulations regarding retirement in India for a group of Westerners. Terrific cast that had to compete with the awesome backdrop of India.


I have just watched "The Marigold Hotel." It's a good film indeed. It also provides vivid details of people who have not saved for retirement.

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby reggiesimpson » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:04 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
reggiesimpson wrote:The recent movie "The Marigold Hotel" was an instant hit in England and U.S. All about the trials and tribulations regarding retirement in India for a group of Westerners. Terrific cast that had to compete with the awesome backdrop of India.


I have just watched "The Marigold Hotel." It's a good film indeed. It also provides vivid details of people who have not saved for retirement.

Victoria

Agreed. A great place to visit even for extended periods of time but i wouldnt want to have to live there (or anywhere else for that matter). The standard of living is not what we are used to in the west. And that can be painful if you are older. While i spent months at a time, when visiting on a number of occasions, i always had the U.S. to come home to.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby dgdevil » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:28 pm

India is a ballsy choice. I'm in Panama City now, ostensibly a little more developed, and I can't imagine how expat retirees survive here.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby zenbully » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:29 am

I have a number of friends living a comfortable, safe lifestyle in San Miguel, Mexico. Here's an interesting article on the expat community there: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... -in-mexico
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby chaz » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:06 pm

I'll live and die in the US.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby gurujji » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:50 pm

Valuethinker wrote:India would be a fascinating place to live for a few years, but I would not see it as a long term retirement destination unless you were very adaptable.


some related discussions - http://www.indiamike.com/india/india-expat-area-f84/
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:16 am

gurujji wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:India would be a fascinating place to live for a few years, but I would not see it as a long term retirement destination unless you were very adaptable.


some related discussions - http://www.indiamike.com/india/india-expat-area-f84/


Thank you for the link, it's an excellent resource.

After reading several indiamike threads I am left with an impression that U.S. citizens can get a 10-year Indian visa that would allow them multiple 180-day stays. I did not see any information about minimum gaps between the stays, and some people seem to be gaming the system by leaving the country for a few days and then returning. (If sscritic sees this, he will ridicule me with reminders of Google. But right now I am just day dreaming, and dreaming and policy documents do not mix.)

I hope it's not completely off-topic, but what is Panchakarma? Is it effective? A brief Google search has returned some expensive American offerings; I am interested in any experiences with the real thing.

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby TomatoTomahto » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:30 pm

HomerJ wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:From what I've heard, Sarasota, FL is also a wonderful place for the arts.


My adult daughter lives in Sarasota, and is heavily involved in the theatre community there. Quite a mix of old people and young people in that town.
My parents first retired to Ibiza, Spain (in the 70s, when it was fun and crazy, before the crowds began to fly in for an intoxicated and mindless week's vacation). The lack of decent medical care and the diminishing social qualities had them return to the US, where they enjoyed their remaining years amid kindred spirits who enjoyed the arts in Sarasota.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:32 am

VictoriaF wrote:
gurujji wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:India would be a fascinating place to live for a few years, but I would not see it as a long term retirement destination unless you were very adaptable.


some related discussions - http://www.indiamike.com/india/india-expat-area-f84/


Thank you for the link, it's an excellent resource.

After reading several indiamike threads I am left with an impression that U.S. citizens can get a 10-year Indian visa that would allow them multiple 180-day stays. I did not see any information about minimum gaps between the stays, and some people seem to be gaming the system by leaving the country for a few days and then returning. (If sscritic sees this, he will ridicule me with reminders of Google. But right now I am just day dreaming, and dreaming and policy documents do not mix.)

I hope it's not completely off-topic, but what is Panchakarma? Is it effective? A brief Google search has returned some expensive American offerings; I am interested in any experiences with the real thing.

Victoria


Just as I've got interested in India, these news have hit. It's time for plan B.

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby Valuethinker » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:53 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Just as I've got interested in India, these news have hit. It's time for plan B.

Victoria


As in investing, we should not be oversensitive to recent events and media interest in them.

The problem depicted in India is longstanding. Just because our media didn't talk about it, does not mean it was not there.

Consider. Recently in the US a mass murder took place. Our media has discovered (again) that Americans own guns, and that sometimes crazy Americans shoot people en masse with them. This, btw, has happened in Germany, Switzerland, Finland and Norway in recent years-- in Norway *80* young people dead. No AFAIK there have not been big subsequent changes in legislation in those countries, either.

That still doesn't mean that I should not visit America, that American schools are unsafe places for my children, that Americans are gun crazed lunatics. Or that I should think of Germany, Switzerland, Finland and Norway as unsafe places.

The reality is your worst danger in India, besides disease, by far, is traffic accidents. Traffic accidents kill over 1 million people annually in emerging markets (vs about 3,000 a year in the UK).

Granted there might be a greater threat to women than previously reported, but I believe less than 10% of rapes in the UK are actually reported, and on 1 in 100 successfully prosecuted. So much for modern, progressive Great Britain.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby reggiesimpson » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:56 am

Victoria.............. Its a major drawback for India(and many other parts of the world).
We were in India a number of years ago and my wife complained to me that two guys just kept staring at her. I stopped what i was doing and glared right back at them. They moved on. If i werent there i have no idea what may have happened.
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:03 pm

reggiesimpson wrote:Victoria.............. Its a major drawback for India(and many other parts of the world).
We were in India a number of years ago and my wife complained to me that two guys just kept staring at her. I stopped what i was doing and glared right back at them. They moved on. If i werent there i have no idea what may have happened.


Thanks. By the way, the woman in the story was with a man. Somehow, that was the most shocking part for me.

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby VictoriaF » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:08 pm

Valuethinker wrote:Granted there might be a greater threat to women than previously reported, but I believe less than 10% of rapes in the UK are actually reported, and on 1 in 100 successfully prosecuted. So much for modern, progressive Great Britain.


I have lived and traveled in different countries and continents and am well familiar with dangers faced by women. I have been assuming that prudence could greatly reduce (not eliminate) risks. Until now, boarding a bus in a capital city in the company of a man seemed "prudent." The horror of the story is that people describe it not as an exception (recency) but as a rule (I've read some interviews with the protesters).

Victoria
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Re: Early retirement overseas?

Postby reggiesimpson » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:13 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
reggiesimpson wrote:Victoria.............. Its a major drawback for India(and many other parts of the world).
We were in India a number of years ago and my wife complained to me that two guys just kept staring at her. I stopped what i was doing and glared right back at them. They moved on. If i werent there i have no idea what may have happened.


Thanks. By the way, the woman in the story was with a man. Somehow, that was the most shocking part for me.

Victoria

Youre right. Thats scary as heck. We met a number of women traveling in that part of the world and usually with a male companion. When that protective "veil" is ignored civilized behavior erodes. Hopefully the OP will take this into consideration.
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