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Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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bagelhead
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Post by bagelhead »

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Last edited by bagelhead on Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dhodson
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by dhodson »

isnt the heater then also likely to last 1/2 as long since its working twice as hard?
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Sally
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by Sally »

We had a natural gas heated pool with hot tub for 21 years (northern VA). While I would estimate expenses high (to be safe), these costs and equipment longevity are not what we we experienced. But, when we built the pool, my husband had equipment put in as if it were a commercial/public pool vice private pool--he researched, and equipment purchase costs were greater initially than what the low bid pool companies recommended.

HEATER--We only had to replace the heater once during that period (21 years). 5 year lifespan seems awfully short though it seems they build equipments to last shorter periods these days! lol
GAS--The additional gas did not cost us anywhere near $2000 per year; but (1) we generally only heated the whole pool (20x38) on weekends and heated the hot tub about 2x a week and on weekends, and (2) gas prices are much higher now (at least where I now reside).
MAINTENANCE--Maintenance did not cost $2000 annually, though the costs of opening and closing by pool company did increase dramatically during that period. Don’t know what they charge now, but it went from $100/$150 each to over $500 each at the end (when we sold the house). Chemicals were not in the $1000 range (we ordered chlorine mail order and/or watched for Leslie’s sales). Note: We did not have weekly maintenance service, as well as backwashed ourselves.
WATER--was considerably more than $300 per year--closer to $500.
REPAIRS-- Repairs were few and far between during the first 10-15 years and did not cost anywhere near $1000 per year--in fact, I don’t remember any repairs greater than $200 in any given year until about year 15 when we replaced the heater.

But we did put out a bundle when we had the pool re-surfaced in year 19--b/c my husband wanted to upgrade the appearance of surface and tiling--

NOTE: The man who did the opening & closing told us that pool companies would recommend pump and filter replacements--he said not to replace equipment we had installed b/c it would last 30-40 years with some relatively minor repairs starting in about year 20. He was right as of the time we sold the house.

NOTE 2: The folks who bought the house are using the equipment we had installed and have not needed major repairs or replacements in the 5 years since they bought the house. They learned very quickly to get the “right” person for opening & closing after the first year b/c the company they hired was not familiar with the equipment and failed to install the filter when they opened the pool--thankfully I was visiting neighbors and stopped in and saw the pool open and pump running but no filter--I showed them how to put the filter in and backwash--after that they hired the same person we had used for 20 years.

Hope this helps--from our experience, it sounds like you are estimating in a good way so that you aren't "unpleasantly" surprised!
MoneyBagsRx
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:12 am
Location: New York

Re: Heated pool costs

Post by MoneyBagsRx »

No matter what you do, get a solar cover!

I bought a 8 mil solar cover ($120 for a 25k gal pool) and my temps jumped on 10 degrees average. Warranty says it will last 7 years.
Flashes1
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by Flashes1 »

MoneyBagsRx wrote:No matter what you do, get a solar cover!
Did you need the solar cover in the summer months? Or is it something that's really only needed in the spring and fall?
Carl53
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by Carl53 »

OP, you did not mention where you live.
bagelhead wrote: Costs:

Gas heater, $2000 or $400/annually (assuming 5-year lifespan)
I paid $2059 in 2004 for a 400,000 BTU gas heater. Never had a problem nor service on it in nine seasons. Given that I am careful about pool chemicals and conscientiously blow it out well at the end of the season, I would not be surprised to get another 9 seasons. Make my estimate for heater $150/year. I did spend a few hundred for a larger gas line to the heater, not included in the above number.
Gas expenses, $2000/annually
We live in Ohio. I still use a solar cover for many cooler nights. This past May 15 (earliest heatup ever) it took 26 hours for the heater to bring my 42000 gal pool up from 59 to 82F. It consumed about 69 ccf in the process. My incremental gas bill for the heatup and several cycles over the next 10 days (until the ground warmed up sufficiently) was about $35. Gas was pretty cheap this year as last year the season initial heating cost was nearly $50. Once heated the heater was only used a couple of times this year while the temperature was maintained and increased with the solar cover. Often in the fall we may extend the season until the first week of October with the heater. Typically this will cost $15-20. We did not do this this year as I drained the pool to paint it in September. I do not believe I've ever spent even $100 on gas to heat the pool.
Maintenance service (cleaning, chemicals, labor), $2000/annually
I suppose if you hire out the maintenance, you might drop $2k/year on it. Most summers I have perhaps eight hours opening and another eight closing and perhaps 20 hours over the course of the summer. If I paid myself $50/hr that would be $1800. Chemicals/materials run $250-500 annually except every 5 years when I paint (about $800 additional this time). Electric for the 1 HP pump and ozonator that I typically run 8-10 hours/day is on the order of $150 annually.
Water, $300/annually
I had less than that much this year, more like $250, and that included refilling the entire pool (well I did only fill it to my winter level, about 7000 gallon short of normal operating level). Most summers, more like $75.
Repairs, $1000 every 5 years or $200/annually
Before you wise up to how to operate it properly there will be things that you damage or become damaged and need repair. I did replace the 35 year old sand filter last year after misvalving my pump. The filter had developed some seepage that I'd patched and missed opening a valve. That was a $500 mistake. Pumps are not long lived, with the current $500 pump five years old. It is the third in the last 23 years we have lived here. Looking back on my records, I'd say you might be close on your repair estimate. Things like slides and diving boards are also not indestructible. Did not replace the 25 year old slide 10 years ago, but did the diving board.

Around $6000/year?
My experience with the pool already installed and not hiring out the maintenance - $1000/year.Additional question:

Since one problem of gas heaters is that they often fail by year 5, but one of the benefits of gas heaters is that they are able to strictly maintain desired temperatures with rapid heating, what is the disadvantage of buying a "smaller than recommended"-sized gas heater (say, 50k BTU when 100k BTU is recommended)?

I would think the only disadvantages would be the initial heating of the pool taking longer and the smaller gas heater being "on" more often with a slight increase in gas costs due to lesser efficiency. But I would guess the savings of the buying a cheaper, smaller gas heater would greatly outweigh this, especially since both cheaper and more expensive gas heaters will fail every 5 years anyway.
I disagree that the heater will fail that quickly. Perhaps if you use a lot of salt or heavy on the chlorine and do not use a solar cover so that you are running the heater most every night, it will fail that quickly. When you open the pool there is a lot of anticipation by family to use the pool. A small heater will take agonizingly long in the spring. I do not recall the heater price being particularly proportional to capacity. Lastly my pool had a small heat pump (50000BTU) unit that also cooled the house and provided hot water when we moved in. It seemed to overtax the heat pump and took forever. Only lasted a few times til I had to remove it from service permanently.
Flashes1
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by Flashes1 »

Carl53, what brand of heater do you have, and did you feel the need to use the solar cover in the summer?
Carl53
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by Carl53 »

Flashes1 wrote:Carl53, what brand of heater do you have, and did you feel the need to use the solar cover in the summer?
Mine is a Raypak. I certainly could have used the gas heater throughout the summer. The solar cover reduces gas costs, probably $100-200 on a typical summer, and water evaporation which this summer might have been significant. I had 14 years of solar cover use only prior to installing the gas heater. It often was sufficient once it got the pool warm enough. The problem was that in Ohio, it often took until the end of June before it was warm enough for me to want to get in. Now, we use the gas heater to get it to temperature (in May!) and the solar cover for maintenance of that temperature, except when weather conditions otherwise dictate. The solar cover also keeps some debris from entering the pool. I had not previously considered it, but limiting the gas heater use may prolong its longevity.
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deanbrew
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Location: The Keystone State

Re: Heated pool costs

Post by deanbrew »

Use of a solar cover and pool heater will vary drastically depending on where you live. I live in PA, and have PVC pipes plumbed from my pool system into my basement, and use my natural gas boiler furnace to heat the pool (my plumber installed a heat exchanger to heat the pool water). But I only heat the water in May when I open the pool. I turn the heater off once my pool gets up to temp, and then use the solar cover to keep the water warm. And my wife likes it very warm. Looking at my gas bills, I'm certain I don't spend even $200 a year heating my pool, let alone $2,000.

I can't address the cost of the pool heater, or the lifespan, but 5 years seems very short to me. I would be furious if I spent $2k on a heater and it only lasted five years.

When I had my pool built, I had a salt water generator installed, so I never buy chlorine. I use some shock, borax, baking soda and a few other chemicals, but my chemical bill is about $100 per year. Amortizing the salt cell adds another $100 per year, at most. I have a pool company close my pool, which costs $320 if they use their shock and antifreeze (they charge triple what it costs if I buy it). I assume opening the pool would cost a similar amount, but I do it myself. Add in for vacuum heads, hoses, solar cover, etc, and the average might be $800 per year for chemicals and maintenance.

I add water from my hose, and based on the amount added in an average year, I would estimate that cost at under $100 per year, max. But I have my solar cover on almost all the time unless we are swimming, which greatly reduces evaporation, so I add water only a few times per year. The summer before last, with all the rain, I didn't add any new water all summer.

Repairs? That's a really hard one to estimate.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
Topic Author
bagelhead
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:20 am

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Post by bagelhead »

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Last edited by bagelhead on Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JDCPAEsq
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Location: Southwest Florida

Re: Heated pool costs

Post by JDCPAEsq »

bagelhead wrote:If one is renting a house, how much would it cost to install a gas/propane heater? If one moves to a different house say in 1-year, how much would it cost to "uninstall" and "re-install" the gas/propane heater at the new house? Are there any other installation issues re: moving besides cost?
I just paid a little over $2,000 for a 250,000 btu propane pool heater. I really can't imagine installing one on a place you are renting.
John
chrisjul
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by chrisjul »

I had a solar heating system installed for my pool....cost $3k total....heat is free....I get 10 degrees warmer than the Gulf of Mexico on average....I live in SW FL and can swim year round.....but I prefer it 10 months of the year.

Good luck,

CC
Last edited by chrisjul on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chrisjul
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Re: Heated pool costs

Post by chrisjul »

Oh, and I do NOT use a "solar blanket" on my pool.
MoneyBagsRx
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Location: New York

Re: Heated pool costs

Post by MoneyBagsRx »

Flashes1 wrote:
MoneyBagsRx wrote:No matter what you do, get a solar cover!
Did you need the solar cover in the summer months? Or is it something that's really only needed in the spring and fall?
I'm in the western New York area so our pools are only open during summer months (May - Sept). It's going to depend on your area and your average water temps. But, as previously posted, I saw a ~10 degree improvment.
JDCPAEsq
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Location: Southwest Florida

Pets and pool blanket

Post by JDCPAEsq »

Something to think about if you have pets. We have a solar heater supplemented with a propane gas heater in SW Florida, but we're afraid to use a pool blanket because of the risk of our two cats falling in the pool and becoming trapped under the blanket. Anyone else have that concern?
John
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deanbrew
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Location: The Keystone State

Re: Pets and pool blanket

Post by deanbrew »

JDCPAEsq wrote:Something to think about if you have pets. We have a solar heater supplemented with a propane gas heater in SW Florida, but we're afraid to use a pool blanket because of the risk of our two cats falling in the pool and becoming trapped under the blanket. Anyone else have that concern?
John
I've thought about this, but our dog refuses to get in the pool no matter what. We don't worry about her getting in anymore. If I had a pet who liked to get in, the solar cover might be a concern.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
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