Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

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Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:15 pm

Would you move your safe to an assisted living facility?

My MIL has about a 4’ tall safe, within the safe she keeps her estate plan, various other items and fairly large box of an old handed down coin collection that’s about a foot deep. I have no clue what the coin collection is or its worth, never looked at it.

I’m not sure if she could get into to the safe on her own and I would worry a little, but not too much of her giving out the combo to whoever comes in.

I called her bank where she has a safety deposit box to see if they have a larger one or another one and that was a no go, was thinking we could toss it all in a safety deposit box, well most of it anyway.

So that brings us to two options, move the safe to the assisted living facility or to one of the kids homes. I’m not crazy about keeping the safe at our home but will if it makes sense.


Thoughts?
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Gill » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:18 pm

I'd try another bank. Many banks have large boxes that should hold the contents. I certainly wouldn't move a safe to an assisted living facility. Possibly not all the items need to be kept in a safe.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Rodc » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:21 pm

Jay69 wrote:Would you move your safe to an assisted living facility?

My MIL has about a 4’ tall safe, within the safe she keeps her estate plan, various other items and fairly large box of an old handed down coin collection that’s about a foot deep. I have no clue what the coin collection is or its worth, never looked at it.

I’m not sure if she could get into to the safe on her own and I would worry a little, but not too much of her giving out the combo to whoever comes in.

I called her bank where she has a safety deposit box to see if they have a larger one or another one and that was a no go, was thinking we could toss it all in a safety deposit box, well most of it anyway.

So that brings us to two options, move the safe to the assisted living facility or to one of the kids homes. I’m not crazy about keeping the safe at our home but will if it makes sense.


Thoughts?


My 87 year old mother is in a retirement place but not in assisted living. She has a safe with those sorts of documents in it. Seems normal to me. As long as your mother is of sound mind, not in an Alzheimer's unit or something similar I don't see a problem

Presuming of sound mind, since is it your mother's safe, what does she want to do?

Do that.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby CABob » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:24 pm

Would MIL be comfortable with the safe at one of her children's home?
I would not move it to the assisted living home. I forsee a number of potential problems with that. I suspect that the home might object also.
I somehow doubt that the important contents actually take up all of the space in a 4' safe, but, that might be a faulty assumption on my part. I would look into splitting the contents up into smaller more portable portions and maybe split between childrens homes, safe deposit boxes, lawyer's office, etc. A small safe would probably be acceptable at the retirement home.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:30 pm

Rodc wrote:
My 87 year old mother is in a retirement place but not in assisted living. She has a safe with those sorts of documents in it. Seems normal to me. As long as your mother is of sound mind, not in an Alzheimer's unit or something similar I don't see a problem

Presuming of sound mind, since is it your mother's safe, what does she want to do?

Do that.


She does not have Alzheimer's but has had 2 strokes and does get confused very easily. I'm not sure how to put it in words but as an example she can not fill out a check, has a tough time making phone calls etc.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:35 pm

CABob wrote:Would MIL be comfortable with the safe at one of her children's home?
I would not move it to the assisted living home. I forsee a number of potential problems with that. I suspect that the home might object also.
I somehow doubt that the important contents actually take up all of the space in a 4' safe, but, that might be a faulty assumption on my part. I would look into splitting the contents up into smaller more portable portions and maybe split between childrens homes, safe deposit boxes, lawyer's office, etc. A small safe would probably be acceptable at the retirement home.


I'm sure she would not have and issue if we had the safe at our home but I'm not that crazy about it myself, don't want to create any family issue unnecessarily. At this point we have a great family dynamic and would not foresee an issue but stange things happen.

I would agree that many of items may not be safe worthy
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Globalviewer58 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:54 pm

I would strongly suggest that anything of value be removed from the safe before relocating to an assisted living facility. Our local police report often contains reports of items stolen from assisted living facilities in the area. Some are reported stolen from visitors, others from residents. Although I have met some fine people working in the facilities it only takes one to cause a problem.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Rodc » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:42 pm

Jay69 wrote:
Rodc wrote:
My 87 year old mother is in a retirement place but not in assisted living. She has a safe with those sorts of documents in it. Seems normal to me. As long as your mother is of sound mind, not in an Alzheimer's unit or something similar I don't see a problem

Presuming of sound mind, since is it your mother's safe, what does she want to do?

Do that.


She does not have Alzheimer's but has had 2 strokes and does get confused very easily. I'm not sure how to put it in words but as an example she can not fill out a check, has a tough time making phone calls etc.


Given that I would say she unfortunately not of sound mind. Sorry to hear that. Tough spot to be in for all concerned.

Probably best to have the contents stored elsewhere. Is she comfortable with that conversation? Can the family together have that conversation?
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Dianne » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:22 pm

CABob wrote:Would MIL be comfortable with the safe at one of her children's home?
I would look into splitting the contents up into smaller more portable portions and maybe split between childrens homes, safe deposit boxes, lawyer's office, etc. A small safe would probably be acceptable at the retirement home.


The estate plan: I would suggest that she give her will to the person she has named as her executor, her power of attorney to the person she has named as her agent, and so on. These are the people who will need these documents at some point, and they likely have an incentive to keep track of those documents.

The coin collection: Consider having the coin collection appraised. It will probably need to be appraised before too long anyway, and getting an appraisal now will tell you whether it needs to be in a safe.

Other items: Same approaches as above. If the item has intrinsic value, get it appraised. If the item is a legal or financial document, store the original with the person who will need it next (perhaps she could keep a copy for her own reference). If the item has sentimental value, she might give it to a family member or take it to the assisted living facility. If she takes it with her, you might not feel the need to store it securely, or you might be able to fit all such items in a smaller safe.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:38 pm

Dianne wrote:The estate plan: I would suggest that she give her will to the person she has named as her executor, her power of attorney to the person she has named as her agent, and so on. These are the people who will need these documents at some point, and they likely have an incentive to keep track of those documents.

The coin collection: Consider having the coin collection appraised. It will probably need to be appraised before too long anyway, and getting an appraisal now will tell you whether it needs to be in a safe.

Other items: Same approaches as above. If the item has intrinsic value, get it appraised. If the item is a legal or financial document, store the original with the person who will need it next (perhaps she could keep a copy for her own reference). If the item has sentimental value, she might give it to a family member or take it to the assisted living facility. If she takes it with her, you might not feel the need to store it securely, or you might be able to fit all such items in a smaller safe.


This maybe what we are looking at, I'm the executor/POA, my wife has every thing, health care. So will most likely just keep the safe.

As far as the coin collection that is something that should be done, will look into that.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby CABob » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:47 pm

The coin collection: Consider having the coin collection appraised. It will probably need to be appraised before too long anyway, and getting an appraisal now will tell you whether it needs to be in a safe.

I'm not sure there is any benefit to having an appraisal at this time except to learn its value for reference. At the time of her passing an appraisal would probably have to be done as part of the estate settlement.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:03 pm

CABob wrote:
The coin collection: Consider having the coin collection appraised. It will probably need to be appraised before too long anyway, and getting an appraisal now will tell you whether it needs to be in a safe.

I'm not sure there is any benefit to having an appraisal at this time except to learn its value for reference. At the time of her passing an appraisal would probably have to be done as part of the estate settlement.


Maybe not an appraisal but an invotory I would do if we were to move it to our home + a few pictures at a minimum
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby jhd1945 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:42 pm

I would not have her keep anything of value at an assisted living facility. I believe that she/you sign a document that releives them of any responsibility for any loss. Too many people coming and going - a lot of people have a key to her apartment in order to clean, give medicines, etc. If anything comes up missing you would have no ability to determine who it might have been. Plus as one becomes older, most get paranoid and "believe" that things have been stolen when they are actually lost or never made it to the apartment.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:00 pm

jhd1945 wrote:I would not have her keep anything of value at an assisted living facility. I believe that she/you sign a document that releives them of any responsibility for any loss. Too many people coming and going - a lot of people have a key to her apartment in order to clean, give medicines, etc. If anything comes up missing you would have no ability to determine who it might have been. Plus as one becomes older, most get paranoid and "believe" that things have been stolen when they are actually lost or never made it to the apartment.


These are all good points and also true, I will need to check the contract, it may releive them of all responsibility of loss, I don't recall. We have been dealing with some of this already, claims people are stealing her stuff, had some cash go missing, its turns up in a another week or so, she just forgets where she puts it.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Dianne » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:08 pm

CABob wrote:
The coin collection: Consider having the coin collection appraised. It will probably need to be appraised before too long anyway, and getting an appraisal now will tell you whether it needs to be in a safe.

I'm not sure there is any benefit to having an appraisal at this time except to learn its value for reference. At the time of her passing an appraisal would probably have to be done as part of the estate settlement.


This is a good point -- the appraisal might have to be redone later, depending on the timing. However, if her estate isn't large enough to be required to file an estate tax return ($5.25 million for the federal estate tax, possibly less for the state return if the state has an estate tax), the appraisal would likely be done only for (a) the probate court inventory, and (b) the division of assets among the beneficiaries.

In the jurisdictions where I practice, I don't think the probate courts would object to an appraisal that's a few years old, or even older -- in uncontested cases, they don't demand a lot. And in a harmonious family, the children might well agree to use the old appraisal rather than pay for a new one, and they'll be pleased to not have to mess with getting a new one at that time. But if they have no appraisal at all, someone might insist on one, so the old appraisal is useful to have.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:21 pm

Dianne wrote:In the jurisdictions where I practice, I don't think the probate courts would object to an appraisal that's a few years old, or even older -- in uncontested cases, they don't demand a lot. And in a harmonious family, the children might well agree to use the old appraisal rather than pay for a new one, and they'll be pleased to not have to mess with getting a new one at that time. But if they have no appraisal at all, someone might insist on one, so the old appraisal is useful to have.


Thanks Dianne, next time I'm at the old place I will take a look and see what it is, for all I know its full of old fender washers :wink: The whole family plans on preparing the old place for sale in the next few week, I just want to be sure the safe it out before we start showing the place. To be honest is should have been removed over a yeat ago as the place has been empty, just to many other things to deal with on the list.
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby DiscoBunny1979 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:26 pm

I would not have a coin collection at an Assisted Living Facility mainly because if she has to apply for any Federal or State Benefits that ask about 'assets' the facility might have the right to open the box and evaluate the contents for the continuation of such benefits. Does the facility have the right to check property in the room?

Another reason for not having a safe is if the person has a memory loss of any kind, which could be the basis for benefits/medical care, the ability to remember a combination lock indicates that there still is memory and therefore exactly how bad is it if one can either remember the combination, or remember where one has put the combination on paper in order to use it?
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:35 am

DiscoBunny1979 wrote:I would not have a coin collection at an Assisted Living Facility mainly because if she has to apply for any Federal or State Benefits that ask about 'assets' the facility might have the right to open the box and evaluate the contents for the continuation of such benefits. Does the facility have the right to check property in the room?

Another reason for not having a safe is if the person has a memory loss of any kind, which could be the basis for benefits/medical care, the ability to remember a combination lock indicates that there still is memory and therefore exactly how bad is it if one can either remember the combination, or remember where one has put the combination on paper in order to use it?



Well lets hope we never have to apply for Federal or State Benefits. All I can say at this point is thank god they took out a decent Long Term Care policy. At about $42,000/year for rent/care it adds up quick. She is young at 77 and longevity is very good in the family, out of 14 kids she is the baby and they all live well into the 90's. Lets hope the insurace company does not go broke!
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Re: Move Safe to an Assisted Living Facility?

Postby jhd1945 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:04 pm

I would go through the policy with a fine tooth comb. The salespersons assurances are worthless unless specified in the policy. Example: they may say that the benefit goes up by 5% a year but it may only apply to the daily rate payable - not the stated value of the policy. For instance, if the policy has a stated value of $150,000 that is the most that they will pay out. Any percentage increase in the daily rate only pays out the benefit more quickly. Be sure to investigate the suspension of premium section to see if it applies to the facility that she is residing.
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