Suze Orman Show Summary

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Cognitive_Squeeze
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Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Cognitive_Squeeze »

Well, I did it; curiosity killed the cat.

For kicks, I listened to her last night while doing dishes, I had a DVR episode lingering. After some wishy washy 'Merican Dream pseudo-biography where she portrays herself as a hard working broke waitress with eager dreams, she is rescued by a blue prince that gives her $50,000. Then, the evil Wall Street villain takes all her money and looses it all. Seeking for justice and as a revenge, she gets a job in the same company and becomes out of thin air into a super successful broker by defeating gender roles. After realizing the injustices of Wall Street, she sues them and wins a legal battle against the system. With the proceeds from the lawsuit she is finally able to pay back her Blue Prince(s) and decides to rescue humanity with her knowledge. This bio needed to start with "Once upon a time" and end with " Lived happily ever after"

Then to the financial advice section. She prescribed 8 months savings across the board (not bad), recommended term insurance (good), and also suggested creating a living revocable trust rather than a will (good).

She diligently proceeded to sale her DVDs, books and paraphernalia, and prescribed everyone with a Roth - which may or may not be a good idea. She followed by promoting market timing and shun target retirement funds rather than using risk tolerance assessment and long term goals. Also, she continued by attacking bond funds. This last part is discussed in many other threads, I stick with bond funds.

The most notorious part of the show was to observe the people in attendance stopping all brain activity and succumbing to authority. They were all nodding in synchronized agreement as if she had just told them the meaning of life. The entire audience loved the kool aid. I bet some of the questions are staged. Some of the answers were wrong, like 11% returns to reach a million 40 years from now. This is also discussed elsewhere in Boggleheads. I found funny how she said over and over "Use a money Market Account" then, mysteriously, the 11% no risk return disclosure appears!

She is a great public speaker and knows how to make money by selling people a false sense of security by using very broad definitions and pseudo-personal advice. Good for her, I'm sure she worked extremely hard to get there.

Alright, I can finally say I watched her show.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Toons »

FYI:happy

Below are a couple of links to prior threads discussing the topic of Suze Orman .
viewtopic.php?t=156001

viewtopic.php?t=144139
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by poker27 »

I watched her shows a few times, and she annoys the heck out of me, mostly her personality. She obviously caters to an audience that is clueless, but some of the advice is just odd. I remember her mentioning that if you opened up a Roth and averaged a 12% return over 30 years you would have x$. Who the heck averages 12%?
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Cognitive_Squeeze »

+1

I was too lazy to put those links, shame on me. Here is another one.

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Individu ... _bond_fund
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I would expect that a lot of her audience believes that you pay no interest on credit card balances so long as you keep up with the minimum payment and still doesn't understand how they possibly could be overdrawn since they still have checks in their checkbook.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by BW1985 »

Her show isn't on anymore, were you watching one of her specials where she speaks to a live audience?
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by ivyhedge »

poker27 wrote:I watched her shows a few times, and she annoys the heck out of me, mostly her personality. She obviously caters to an audience that is clueless, but some of the advice is just odd. I remember her mentioning that if you opened up a Roth and averaged a 12% return over 30 years you would have x$. Who the heck averages 12%?
We saw the show a few times many years ago when she affirmed that the best cars anyone could buy were used GM cars. Over and over and over. Yes, all of the car commercials were for GMs, and they also received "special consideration" billing. Ouch.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Andyrunner »

I actually had a friend call in and ask a question. That's the only segment I watched.

He wanted to buy his girlfriend a 11k Tiffany engagement ring. Girl was obsessed with Tiffany jewelry. He was going to finance half of it and dip into his emergency fund for the other half. Smartly enough she gunned him down pretty good. He went and bought it anyway.

Oh and I saw the ring, looked no different then a generic 2k-3k engagement ring.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by dsmil »

I think it's a great show for the average person out there and one of the few shows on cable that actually helps people. My only pet peeve is that she literally doesn't let anyone buy anything if they don't have the exact emergency fund recommended, even if they have loads of non-retirement investments that they could use.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by mmmodem »

I loved the show. I watched and listened to her podcast regularly. She helped out a young man out of college at his first job. I had no idea what to do with my money and wanted to buy a new car. But she said I should Iinvest in this Roth IRA thing. I continued to drive my 10 year old Corolla. Maxed out my Roth IRA. Complained to HR that my 401k isn't set up. After 3 months HR still hadn't submitted my papers to corporate. I lived at home, maxed out 401k and a year later bought a new car with cash. Somehow got onto Bogleheads and transferred all my target date funds to index funds. I don't know why Bogleheads are so against Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey. Even among Bogleheads there are differences in investment strategies. The core statement applies, LBYM.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Cognitive_Squeeze »

BW1985 wrote:Her show isn't on anymore, were you watching one of her specials where she speaks to a live audience?
It was a live audience, and shee took "random" questions from them. I ignore the show's date, but I recall it was filmed in Washington.

I must agree with a statement above, it's one of the only "good" shows about finance. I bet if the show was in fact useful and truly informative, the ratings would tank.

Imagine if we had "Bogleheads TV" on PBS!
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by JupiterJones »

BW1985 wrote:Her show isn't on anymore, were you watching one of her specials where she speaks to a live audience?
I was thinking the same thing. The OP's description sounds more like one of her infomercial programs than her old call-in show.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by mhalley »

There are many financial gurus out there, most of them have their good and bad points. I don't think any of the ones that have a national tv show or radio show adhere to all of the Boglehead philosphy. I could list all the plusses and minuses of suze, dave, jim, ric, etc, but that is a long post. Sounds like this was one of Suzes specials which is basically an infomercial for her products. She is coming out with a new tv show soon as I recall. I did enjoy her show, (sad to say mostly for the shadenfroid).
Looks like the TV show is called Money Wars, and will be a daytime daily show.
Here is a summary of the new show:
Next up for Suze is Suze Orman’s Money Wars, a half-hour daytime show from Warner Bros. that’s not dissimilar to Judge Judy. Starting in fall 2016, if all goes to plan, Suze will dish out advice to the show’s guests twice a day, five days a week.
I don't see a premiere date yet, I think it is this fall. I will check it out.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by VictoriaF »

It's remarkable how the value of advice is influenced by the personalities of those who do advising. Suze's delivery rubs me the wrong way, and during those one or two times when I tried to listen to her, I focused on what was wrong rather than right.

In contrast, last week, I attended a session delivered by a woman whom I highly respect. In her late sixties, she got a doctorate in the field of elderly studies and she lectures about the elderly health and other issues. This time, her topic was different than usual, it was about preparation for retirement. During the first half she has provided some interesting statistics about the demographics, longevity, savings, and alike. But then she moved to financial advice, and much of it was wrong from the Bogleheads point of view. I recall that she has made strong statements that one SHOULD NOT use index funds, and that one MUST use a financial adviser. She had some nice graphs showing advantages of investing with an adviser.

Throughout the talk, I was giving the speaker the benefit of the doubt. I know that she is, generally, a force for good and provides useful information. My confirmation bias has prevented me from raising critical questions during her presentation and afterwards. I was annoyed, but shrugged it off as I knew that I would not be affected by her recommendations. However, after the lecture, a friend noted to me how great the lecture was. When I tried to impart on him some of my skepticism, he dismissed it. Not only the speaker is reputable for him based on her previous presentations, but this one also has not raised for him any red flags.

Here we have two women, Suze and the last week's speaker, and two ways to offer financial advice. My afterthought is that the credible one is probably more dangerous.

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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by stemikger »

poker27 wrote:Who the heck averages 12%?
Dave Ramsey. :oops:
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by ivyhedge »

VictoriaF wrote:My afterthought is that the credible one is probably more dangerous. Victoria
There's the twist!
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Meg77 »

Tico_75 wrote:Alright, I can finally say I watched her show.
Nope, sorry, you can't. What you saw was one of her public television specials which are designed specifically to sell her books and CDs, an aim which is not disguised. She gives some info and answers a few questions, but the format is drastically different from The Suze Orman Show which has a much faster pace and is far more interesting (whether you like her or not).
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by normaldude »

mhalley wrote:There are many financial gurus out there, most of them have their good and bad points. I don't think any of the ones that have a national tv show or radio show adhere to all of the Boglehead philosphy. I could list all the plusses and minuses of suze, dave, jim, ric, etc, but that is a long post.
Clark Howard seems to like Vanguard index funds. I don't know if he's a pure boglehead, but he's probably pretty close.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by SpringMan »

poker27 wrote:I watched her shows a few times, and she annoys the heck out of me, mostly her personality. She obviously caters to an audience that is clueless, but some of the advice is just odd. I remember her mentioning that if you opened up a Roth and averaged a 12% return over 30 years you would have x$. Who the heck averages 12%?
Who the heck averages 12%? Dave Ramsey :happy
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by PaddyMac »

Suze is FOR
- low-cost index funds and ETFs, esp. from Vanguard
- 8 month emergency fund
- living beneath your means
- living in your truth (as in, you're broke, cut up the credit card…)
- saving for retirement from a young age

She is AGAINST
- financial advisors and high fees
- variable annuities
- stupid purchases you can't afford
- being unrealistic about retiring early when you have nothing saved

You might not agree with her personality, and yes she has a lot of books to sell, but she is not a "chicken dinner" financial advisor and I applaud what she is trying to do. So long as the world is better with her than without her, I don't get why people love to come on here and complain and whine about her. Just because you don't need her help because you are an oh-so-smart boglehead with money in the bank, doesn't mean there aren't many people out there (many on the brink of bankruptcy if you actually watched her shows regularly) that find her advice very useful. She's not doing any harm, except to insurance salesmen selling high-priced annuities who must really hate her!

She's a multimillionaire selling products and fair play to her considering where she started. I often wonder if she would be better accepted if she wasn't a pushy woman? I hope she goes on to help lots of other people who are just starting to figure out how to save and stay out of financial trouble.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by mhalley »

Suze gets. A little flavor of the month occ, she has been a big dividend proponent lately, and she also hates bond funds and target date funds. So her advice can vary depending on the latest financial news. But she overall has a pretty boglehead philosophy.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by blueblock »

I heard her speak live a few years ago. She is a longtime member of the National Association of Women Business Owners, and is revered by them. She was in town during their annual conference and "dropped in unexpectedly" to deliver a 30-minute keynote. She's a terrific public speaker. You can't not hang on her every word, and the adoring audience didn't hurt either.

I think she's at her best when she's inspiring people with her "if I can do it, you can do it" message. It IS empowering, or feels that way. Otherwise, though, like on her show, she's mostly talking to the lowest common denominator, and that's boring.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by VictoriaF »

blueblock wrote:She's a terrific public speaker.
On the two occasions when I checked Suze Orman out, she came across as familiar and condescending. For me, this disqualifies her as a good public speaker.
blueblock wrote:You can't not hang on her every word, and the adoring audience didn't hurt either.
People notice presence but not absence. It's easy to notice those who like, cheer and applaud Orman; it's not easy to count those who avoid her or don't want to rock the boat.
blueblock wrote:I think she's at her best when she's inspiring people with her "if I can do it, you can do it" message. It IS empowering, or feels that way.
I distrust the notion "if I can do it, you can do it." In a large population there is always someone whose achievement far exceeds his group's average. Luck plays an enormous role in these cases.

Furthermore, Orman's success is becoming a multimillionaire, whereas her target audience's success is defined as getting their financial lives in order. What Orman has done is not what she wants her audience to do.
blueblock wrote:Otherwise, though, like on her show, she's mostly talking to the lowest common denominator, and that's boring.
Is she effective? Is there evidence that people improve their financial lives upon listening to Orman's lectures?

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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by dc81584 »

PaddyMac wrote:Suze is FOR
- low-cost index funds and ETFs, esp. from Vanguard
- 8 month emergency fund
- living beneath your means
- living in your truth (as in, you're broke, cut up the credit card…)
- saving for retirement from a young age

She is AGAINST
- financial advisors and high fees
- variable annuities
- stupid purchases you can't afford
- being unrealistic about retiring early when you have nothing saved

You might not agree with her personality, and yes she has a lot of books to sell, but she is not a "chicken dinner" financial advisor and I applaud what she is trying to do. So long as the world is better with her than without her, I don't get why people love to come on here and complain and whine about her. Just because you don't need her help because you are an oh-so-smart boglehead with money in the bank, doesn't mean there aren't many people out there (many on the brink of bankruptcy if you actually watched her shows regularly) that find her advice very useful. She's not doing any harm, except to insurance salesmen selling high-priced annuities who must really hate her!

She's a multimillionaire selling products and fair play to her considering where she started. I often wonder if she would be better accepted if she wasn't a pushy woman? I hope she goes on to help lots of other people who are just starting to figure out how to save and stay out of financial trouble.
I've watched her show several times. I don't agree with every single thing she says, but I, too, find that her advice is at least decent, if not good, in many instances. Yes, she has a fiery personality, but I agree with you that people shouldn't confuse it with the quality of her financial advice.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by midmoder »

Suze used to annoy me too, but one day I suddenly "got" her and from then on I found her style funny and somewhat endearing. She was fun (while Dave is often angry or ranting) and I was sad when her show ended. I thought the 3-part format was very good: part 1 - focus on a person or a couple and their money issues, part 2 - can I afford it, and part 3 - how am I doing -- focusing on someone not too far from retirement. I'm essentially a money voyeur, hence my presence here, and so I found the the stories interesting. I thought the "can I afford it?" segment was great. If you were a regular listener, then over time it would sink in how much money you should really have (no debt, savings for emergencies & retirement) before buying expensive toys. As a reformed spender, I use to need that reinforcement.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by GoldenFinch »

I think of Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey as financial elementary school (how to organize money, spend and save responsibly) and Bogleheads as financial grad school (using the Socratic method, of course). :happy
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by mhalley »

I was just the opposite, I always hated the can I afford it section, and mostly fast forwared through it. I would pause occ if someone was buying something truly outlandish, like a vineyard or a ferrari, or just something weird. I remember once someone was wanting to buy a trip to a Iceland for fairy school: http://www.gonomad.com/910-in-the-land- ... elf-school
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Jerry55 »

midmoder wrote:As a reformed spender, I use to need that reinforcement.
I totally agree. Like her or not Suze Orman has done a Lot to inform people of the choices laid out ...
The object is to invest in ones future, which she does rather eloquently.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by BW1985 »

Jerry55 wrote:
midmoder wrote:As a reformed spender, I use to need that reinforcement.
I totally agree. Like her or not Suze Orman has done a Lot to inform people of the choices laid out ...
The object is to invest in ones future, which she does rather eloquently.

+1. I miss the show a lot, it was entertaining enough that my fiancee would watch it with me thus changing her spending habits. I'm now filling the gap left by Suze's absence with Jill on Money's podcast which was recommended to me here.

If she got too advanced into investing theory like a William Bernstein book the show would lose it's mass appeal.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by sesq »

I liked having the option to watch on a lazy saturday night, so I miss the show. I liked the "how am I doing" and "can I afford it" segments. Though I didn't usually enjoy the "focus" segment as they were often a bit too emotional for my taste (I guess I am just the cold money counting type). I found her 8 month emergency fund mantra to be a bit heavy handed at times, though in the last couple years she seemed to accept that a hefty roth account is a fair proxy. But that's my bias, as long as I have a mortgage to pay I don't like cash.

But I'll watch or listen to anything money related including the insurance salesmen, real estate speculators or goldbugs who rent time on am radio stations. Heck, I'll even listen to the mortgage broker who rents time by me, though not for very long.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Cognitive_Squeeze »

Meg77 wrote:
Tico_75 wrote:Alright, I can finally say I watched her show.
Nope, sorry, you can't. What you saw was one of her public television specials which are designed specifically to sell her books and CDs, an aim which is not disguised. She gives some info and answers a few questions, but the format is drastically different from The Suze Orman Show which has a much faster pace and is far more interesting
I see, I thought all her shows followed that format. Well, I will set the DVR for another encounter with Mrs. Orman.
(whether you like her or not).
I will not know until I see it.

This opens a constructive question: Who would you recommend for a TV show? Are there any good YouTube channels that address this topic?

I recall Dan Solin is pushing to get his TV show started. I think that he could do well exposing others to indexing and staying the course. Personally, after reading a few of his books, I found them a little repetitive and condescending. They served me well and I appreciated the effort.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by BW1985 »

Tico_75 wrote:
Meg77 wrote:
Tico_75 wrote: I see, I thought all her shows followed that format. Well, I will set the DVR for another encounter with Mrs. Orman.
I have not seen any old episodes played on CNBC, unfortunately.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by SGM »

We watched a few of her old syndicated shows for entertainment. I was amazed at how much credit card debt and how little her guests had saved for retirement. There seemed to be quite a few lost souls on her show. The type of people who needed her help were not your typical BH. The majority of guests lived beyond their means.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by kenner »

Some of her ideas:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/ ... -medicine/

She recommends that people buy only individual bonds, including muni bonds, instead of low-cost, vastly diversified, professionally managed high-quality bond funds. I'm sure most Bogleheads are qualified to evaluate individual muni bond offerings, but not sure everyone in Suze's audience is qualified to do that, especially in light of the fact that many of them cannot seem to grasp the concept of how to manage their own personal budgets.

She says target retirement funds are misguided. And investors 60+ years old should be only in stocks - no bonds - as long as the economy and the stock market are going up. But she offers zero advice on how to make the determination of when to sell, or at least diversify, before the market heads down. Wouldn't have worked out to well for retired 60+ year-olds in 2008.

As an investor, she's a good salesman.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by protagonist »

VictoriaF wrote:
On the two occasions when I checked Suze Orman out, she came across as familiar and condescending. For me, this disqualifies her as a good public speaker.
That depends on how you define "good public speaker". "Familiar and condescending" seems to work well in advertising, and certainly gets politicians elected.

VictoriaF wrote:Is she effective? Is there evidence that people improve their financial lives upon listening to Orman's lectures?

Victoria
I never watched Orman or any of the others. But I suppose there are some who do....from reading posts above I would guess that many who seek her advice are pretty desperate and clueless. 75% good advice or even 50% good advice is better than zero. Besides, how often does anybody substantially improve their life by listening to a lecture?

(I can't believe I am actually defending a media giant).
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Johno »

protagonist wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
On the two occasions when I checked Suze Orman out, she came across as familiar and condescending. For me, this disqualifies her as a good public speaker.
That depends on how you define "good public speaker". "Familiar and condescending" seems to work well in advertising, and certainly gets politicians elected.
There's a current of American culture that says you should be presumptuously over-familiar with strangers; sometimes it's used as a way for members of the elite to pretend they are 'average people'. But it is sort of a dilemma in our society for people orders of magnitude more wealthy and influential than average: do they act as if they are, or pretend they aren't? In other societies in history there were accepted social conventions to acknowledge the reality of social strata, but in ours there's the lose-lose that gives highly successful people the choice of being seen by average people as either 'distant and arrogant' or 'familiar and condescending', though a high grade problem from the elite side of things I suppose.

I find Suze (to be overly familiar with her :D ) to be only mildly annoying. As another poster said, I've had a few minutes here and there of schadenfreud at some of the pieces of work she's had on her show, but that's not nice, and I'm glad the show isn't (or hasn't been on my cable) on lately. But as with the Ramsey guy often discussed here, who unlike Orman I've never heard at all directly, if people need to be convinced not to try to live a life they can't afford, a pandemic problem in American society, and 'charismatic' pers-fin guru's can convince them of this, I wouldn't carp too much about the pers-fin gurus' own ignorance and wrong answers on more advanced investing topics, unless really outrageous. And the fact they are in business for themselves is neither here nor there, and a hypocritical criticism IMO from anyone who does whatever they do in part for the money.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by mhalley »

I was always flabbergasted by how much people would get for a mortgage. I often would see people that made a third of my income that bought houses twice as expensive as mine. I know some parts of the country have outlandish housing costs, but these were generally not folks calling from nyc or silicon valley.
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Meg77 »

Tico_75 wrote:
Meg77 wrote:
Tico_75 wrote:Alright, I can finally say I watched her show.
Nope, sorry, you can't. What you saw was one of her public television specials which are designed specifically to sell her books and CDs, an aim which is not disguised. She gives some info and answers a few questions, but the format is drastically different from The Suze Orman Show which has a much faster pace and is far more interesting
I see, I thought all her shows followed that format. Well, I will set the DVR for another encounter with Mrs. Orman.
(whether you like her or not).
I will not know until I see it.

This opens a constructive question: Who would you recommend for a TV show? Are there any good YouTube channels that address this topic?

I recall Dan Solin is pushing to get his TV show started. I think that he could do well exposing others to indexing and staying the course. Personally, after reading a few of his books, I found them a little repetitive and condescending. They served me well and I appreciated the effort.
I wish there was more financial TV but alas there doesn't seem to be much audience for it. My husband listens to Planet Money podcasts and I'm sure there are more like it (I bet the wiki has suggestions). I used to record a 30 minute show Till Debt Do Us Part which was entertaining in the way Hoarders is entertaining when you want to feel better about the status of your housekeeping. Gail Vaz Oxlade would go to a couple's home and look at their budget, their possessions, and give them a month's worth of challenges and a strict spending diet to try to save them from bankruptcy/divorce. It's a Canadian show I haven't seen in ages and am not sure is still on the air.

I believe Suze Orman is coming out with a new TV show soon but I haven't seen a release date. I confess I've recorded her show for years and listen to it while I'm cooking dinner. I even called in once years ago for the Can I Afford it segment! Haha good times.

Her advice is much more appropriate in my view compared to most major financial personalities. Index investing, Roth IRAs and getting your 401k match, term insurance, 8 month emergency fund, be wary of "advisors" who are all actually salespeople, be extremely wary of insurance salespeople, use debt but use it carefully, etc. All the basics she gets right in general. Of course any advice appropriate for a widespread "average American" audience is not going to be terribly nuanced or always appropriate.

But I get a kick out of her "Suze smackdowns" when they are called for and also appreciate that she sometimes rightfully points out to callers that they have a relationship or emotional issue - not a financial issue. And her "How Am I Doing" segment was surprisingly in depth and unprecedented from what I know. People give her a goal (usually a retirement age goal) and she breaks down all their finances and projects over decades to see if they can afford to reach it, how much income they should have in retirement, when debts will be paid off, how much social security they can expect, how expenses might change, etc. It's entertainment first and foremost, but I have learned some things over the years as well from watching.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
stan_the_man
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by stan_the_man »

My wife and I would treat the How Am I Doing? and Can I Afford It? segments as a game and try to predict Suze Orman's response.

That made the show much more entertaining.
dc81584
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by dc81584 »

stan_the_man wrote:My wife and I would treat the How Am I Doing? and Can I Afford It? segments as a game and try to predict Suze Orman's response.

That made the show much more entertaining.
Same here, although predicting her response has become less interesting, as she tends to [rightfully] shoot the requests down.
Ybsybs
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Ybsybs »

Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey are very useful for opening discussions about finances with people who aren't in good shape and aren't (at that point) financially literate. Someone else is up there on TV having their finances discussed. You can talk about why you agree and disagree with what Suze has to say. With luck, it will help the person you are talking with get their financial life in better order.
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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Earl Lemongrab »

Some people have concerns about Suze's investment advice, and it's certainly fair to question things you think are incorrect, but really Suze's old show was not an investment show. It was not unusual, maybe even typical, for the entire show to go by without featuring any specific investment advice. She would tell people to save money and take advantage of matching in 401(k) plans and the like, certainly. Also to avoid whole life and variable annuities.

However, the vast majority of the programs dealt with personal finance. To me getting hung up on whether she liked bond funds or target funds isn't really an important factor in the overall program.

Earl
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goingup
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by goingup »

PaddyMac wrote:Suze is FOR
- low-cost index funds and ETFs, esp. from Vanguard
- 8 month emergency fund
- living beneath your means
- living in your truth (as in, you're broke, cut up the credit card…)
- saving for retirement from a young age

She is AGAINST
- financial advisors and high fees
- variable annuities
- stupid purchases you can't afford
- being unrealistic about retiring early when you have nothing saved

You might not agree with her personality, and yes she has a lot of books to sell, but she is not a "chicken dinner" financial advisor and I applaud what she is trying to do. So long as the world is better with her than without her, I don't get why people love to come on here and complain and whine about her. Just because you don't need her help because you are an oh-so-smart boglehead with money in the bank, doesn't mean there aren't many people out there (many on the brink of bankruptcy if you actually watched her shows regularly) that find her advice very useful. She's not doing any harm, except to insurance salesmen selling high-priced annuities who must really hate her!
Nicely put. I agree completely.
midmoder
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by midmoder »

Meg77 wrote:I even called in once years ago for the Can I Afford it segment! Haha good times.
So, were you approved? I'd guess yes. I'd guess also it was about a car. Do tell!
Saving$
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Saving$ »

The bogleheads are not her intended audience.

I have a distant relative who is "challenged" and gullible and a target of dishonest salespeople. There is no possible way this person would EVER comprehend 95% of what is on bogleheads.com. I tend to get too detailed, and I have a difficult time advising this person. Finally one day my relative said "I listened to Suze Orman and she said I should.... so I am wondering if you agree with that." It was the most sensible thing my relative ever said to me. I jumped on that with a hearty yes, and said listen to Suze, she is great. We are now where the relative will do it if Suze says so, and if Suze did not comment on it, the relative usually asks me. I'm thankful that some station my relative watches plays Suze reruns. Took this person about a year to understand a Roth. I'm thankful for Suze. There are many out there who need her advice and she provides it on a level they understand.
BW1985
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:12 pm

Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by BW1985 »

Meg77 wrote:
Tico_75 wrote:
Meg77 wrote:
Tico_75 wrote:Alright, I can finally say I watched her show.
Nope, sorry, you can't. What you saw was one of her public television specials which are designed specifically to sell her books and CDs, an aim which is not disguised. She gives some info and answers a few questions, but the format is drastically different from The Suze Orman Show which has a much faster pace and is far more interesting
I see, I thought all her shows followed that format. Well, I will set the DVR for another encounter with Mrs. Orman.
(whether you like her or not).
I will not know until I see it.

This opens a constructive question: Who would you recommend for a TV show? Are there any good YouTube channels that address this topic?

I recall Dan Solin is pushing to get his TV show started. I think that he could do well exposing others to indexing and staying the course. Personally, after reading a few of his books, I found them a little repetitive and condescending. They served me well and I appreciated the effort.
I wish there was more financial TV but alas there doesn't seem to be much audience for it. My husband listens to Planet Money podcasts and I'm sure there are more like it (I bet the wiki has suggestions). I used to record a 30 minute show Till Debt Do Us Part which was entertaining in the way Hoarders is entertaining when you want to feel better about the status of your housekeeping. Gail Vaz Oxlade would go to a couple's home and look at their budget, their possessions, and give them a month's worth of challenges and a strict spending diet to try to save them from bankruptcy/divorce. It's a Canadian show I haven't seen in ages and am not sure is still on the air.

I believe Suze Orman is coming out with a new TV show soon but I haven't seen a release date. I confess I've recorded her show for years and listen to it while I'm cooking dinner. I even called in once years ago for the Can I Afford it segment! Haha good times.

Her advice is much more appropriate in my view compared to most major financial personalities. Index investing, Roth IRAs and getting your 401k match, term insurance, 8 month emergency fund, be wary of "advisors" who are all actually salespeople, be extremely wary of insurance salespeople, use debt but use it carefully, etc. All the basics she gets right in general. Of course any advice appropriate for a widespread "average American" audience is not going to be terribly nuanced or always appropriate.

But I get a kick out of her "Suze smackdowns" when they are called for and also appreciate that she sometimes rightfully points out to callers that they have a relationship or emotional issue - not a financial issue. And her "How Am I Doing" segment was surprisingly in depth and unprecedented from what I know. People give her a goal (usually a retirement age goal) and she breaks down all their finances and projects over decades to see if they can afford to reach it, how much income they should have in retirement, when debts will be paid off, how much social security they can expect, how expenses might change, etc. It's entertainment first and foremost, but I have learned some things over the years as well from watching.
I agree with everything you said here, Meg. I also enjoyed Til Death do us Part but sadly it is no longer on air, alteast in the US.
Chase the good life my whole life long, look back on my life and my life gone...where did I go wrong?
LetItGrow
Posts: 18
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Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by LetItGrow »

I'm on this site because of the Suze Orman show:) Suze is a good introduction to financial literacy for the general public.
alexost
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by alexost »

Saving$ wrote:The bogleheads are not her intended audience.

I have a distant relative who is "challenged" and gullible and a target of dishonest salespeople. There is no possible way this person would EVER comprehend 95% of what is on bogleheads.com. I tend to get too detailed, and I have a difficult time advising this person. Finally one day my relative said "I listened to Suze Orman and she said I should.... so I am wondering if you agree with that." It was the most sensible thing my relative ever said to me. I jumped on that with a hearty yes, and said listen to Suze, she is great. We are now where the relative will do it if Suze says so, and if Suze did not comment on it, the relative usually asks me. I'm thankful that some station my relative watches plays Suze reruns. Took this person about a year to understand a Roth. I'm thankful for Suze. There are many out there who need her advice and she provides it on a level they understand.
For this reason my employer annoys me. They must believe most of us are sheep because they hire her on many occasions to speak to us and she's also written books for our employees only and distributed them "free" to us. They're also using her to try to reduce employee animosity towards losing our traditional health insurance next year because she is a big advocate of HSA's.
FandangoDave5010
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Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by FandangoDave5010 »

My wife and I used to be Suze fans but no more. She thinks everyone should delay collecting Social Security as long as possible because the 8% increase each year of delay is a great investment. How can it be an investment if you drop dead before collecting? Many of friends did just that...die before age 70.

I pass on Suze's death gamble plan for social security. You know...a bird in the hand is worth two....
Ybsybs
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:28 pm

Re: Suze Orman Show Summary

Post by Ybsybs »

FandangoDave5010 wrote:My wife and I used to be Suze fans but no more. She thinks everyone should delay collecting Social Security as long as possible because the 8% increase each year of delay is a great investment. How can it be an investment if you drop dead before collecting? Many of friends did just that...die before age 70.

I pass on Suze's death gamble plan for social security. You know...a bird in the hand is worth two....
There are several life expectancy calculators out there. This is one of those times where the details of your individual circumstances matter. I have every intention of taking "Suze's death gamble" myself.
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