Link: http://www.wsj.com/articles/pimcos-tota ... 1430769693Pacific Investment Management Co.’s flagship Total Return fund ceded its title as largest bond mutual fund to rival Vanguard Group, according to April data released by both companies.
Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Just read this in "The Wall Street Journal" online:
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Invest your time actively and your money passively.
- nisiprius
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
I hope this is reporter Kirsten Grind's discovery. I hope Vanguard isn't issuing press releases about this... "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Is there a taboo against merely stating facts?nisiprius wrote:I hope this is reporter Kirsten Grind's discovery. I hope Vanguard isn't issuing press releases about this... "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
My shoe size is 11 . That's a fact. If I put it in a press release people would properly think i am a moron.
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Possibly the best mutual fund out there. About time people noticed!
70% Global Stocks / 30% Bonds
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
I respectfully disagree. Press releases are free advertising to get more investors in the door. I think it would be haughty to pass up a free opportunity to decrease ERs for everyone.nisiprius wrote:I hope this is reporter Kirsten Grind's discovery. I hope Vanguard isn't issuing press releases about this... "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
About time. About time.
Here is to the future:
- may PIMCO total returns fund lose another 50% of assets, and may 100% of that end up parked at Vanguard.
Here is to the future:
- may PIMCO total returns fund lose another 50% of assets, and may 100% of that end up parked at Vanguard.
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
You just put up a press release about that.Professor Emeritus wrote:My shoe size is 11 . That's a fact. If I put it in a press release people would properly think i am a moron.
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Here is an article about this in the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-p ... story.html
Pimco's flagship fund loses status as world's largest bond fund
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
It's funny to me though that PTTRX has outperformed VBTLX the last 15 years, 10 years, 5 years, 3 years, 1 year, and YTD.
“Never ask anyone for their opinion, forecast, or recommendation. Just ask them what they have—or don’t have—in their portfolio.” -Taleb
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Its not a press release. It's a teaching example to a membership groupTradingPlaces wrote:You just put up a press release about that.Professor Emeritus wrote:My shoe size is 11 . That's a fact. If I put it in a press release people would properly think i am a moron.
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
And all but one rolling three year period for the last ten years at least.Beat The Street wrote:It's funny to me though that PTTRX has outperformed VBTLX the last 15 years, 10 years, 5 years, 3 years, 1 year, and YTD.
http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fun ... 22%3A36%7D
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Despite headline writers Vanguard is not claiming "titles:"UPDATE 2-Pimco Total Return Fund loses world's biggest bond fund title
"We do not view this as an asset gathering horse race," said John S. Woerth, spokesman at the Valley Forge, Pennsylvania-based Vanguard Group. "It is, however, representative of the popularity of low-cost, broadly diversified index funds."
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
It's not like Vanguard had much to do with it. From the WSJ:
Paul
Paul
...and then Buffy staked Edward. The end.
- nisiprius
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Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
It is, however, tempting to quote what Charles D. Ellis wrote in the influential essay, The Loser's Game. He argued in 1975 that institutional investing had become a "loser's game," not in the sense that everyone who plays it loses, but in the sense that it is a game won not by making brilliant winning plays, but by avoiding mistakes. His analogy is to tennis, when played at the amateur level, as analyzed by Simon Ramo:stratton wrote:It's not like Vanguard had much to do with it. From the WSJ:
Paul
Dr. Ramo explains that if you choose to win at tennis--as opposed to having a good time--the strategy for winning is to avoid mistakes. The way to avoid mistakes is to be conservative and keep the ball in play, letting the other fellow have plenty of room in which to blunder his way to defeat, because he, being an amateur (and probably not having read Ramo's book) will play a losing game and not know it.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Professor (striding into lecture hall): Class, I'll have you know that my shoe size is 11!Professor Emeritus wrote:Its not a press release. It's a teaching example to a membership groupTradingPlaces wrote:You just put up a press release about that.Professor Emeritus wrote:My shoe size is 11 . That's a fact. If I put it in a press release people would properly think i am a moron.
Student (looking baffled): Is that gonna be on the test?
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Yes, PTTRX has outperformed VBTLX for all periods, but after I read the prospectus for PTTRX years ago I was sure I didn't want to invest my money in that fund. Way too much risk. As it turned out all went well for PTTRX but I didn't want to take a chance. I sleep very well with VBTLX.Beat The Street wrote:It's funny to me though that PTTRX has outperformed VBTLX the last 15 years, 10 years, 5 years, 3 years, 1 year, and YTD.
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Beat The Street wrote:It's funny to me though that PTTRX has outperformed VBTLX the last 15 years, 10 years, 5 years, 3 years, 1 year, and YTD.
Isn't Vanguard Interm-Bond Index Fund the more appropriate benchmark?
Even then, PIMCO still wins, but its much closer, 5.9 v 5.6 over 10 years.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Regarding PTTRX,
No. The duration is too long. Both PIMCO and Morningstar analyst use the BarCap Agg Index as the benchmark. If you want to get closer to the average credit quality while maintaining the duration the best choice may be the BarCap Government/Credit (1-10) Index (use GVI) but you don't have data longer than five years for GVI. Also remember that the PTTRX duration is going to move around more than an index fund does.denovo wrote:Isn't Vanguard Interm-Bond Index Fund the more appropriate benchmark?
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
Doc wrote:Regarding PTTRX,No. The duration is too long. Both PIMCO and Morningstar analyst use the BarCap Agg Index as the benchmark. If you want to get closer to the average credit quality while maintaining the duration the best choice may be the BarCap Government/Credit (1-10) Index (use GVI) but you don't have data longer than five years for GVI. Also remember that the PTTRX duration is going to move around more than an index fund does.denovo wrote:Isn't Vanguard Interm-Bond Index Fund the more appropriate benchmark?
Thanks. Looking at the numbers, Gross deserves his reputation as bond king. The expense ratio on PTTRX looks to be around .6 which is significantly higher than the Vanguard Bond funds, but less than the one percent that is average.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Re: Vanguard Claims Title of World’s Largest Bond Fund
The wide use of derivatives lets a fund reduce transaction costs and therefore take advantage of well known bond trading techniques like "riding the yield curve". An index fund can't do that. Moreover any large fund that has to or wants to make large moves without affecting the market probably can't do that without using derivatives. How much of PTTRX's past performance was due to the bond king's correct guesses and how much is due to its institutional trading expertise may never be known.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.