Vanguard HealthCare Fund

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Greenie
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Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Greenie »

I have owned the Vanguard HealthCare Fund many years ago. Does anyone here add VGHAX to their three or four fund portfolio?
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whaleknives
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by whaleknives »

I have held Vanguard Health Care Fund Investor (VGHCX) as a bit of mental accounting with a class settlement, chasing returns. Based on postings, others here have also.
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toto238
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by toto238 »

Health Care fund has done great recently. But so was the Energy fund until oil plummetted in price. Could something equivalent happen in the health care industry? Maybe. I don't know.

I wouldn't allocate more than 5% of my overall allocation to it. Maybe up to 10% if you really believe in it.
TooLateSmart
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by TooLateSmart »

I'm 84 yrs old and have had CLL (leukemia) since 2002, so I spend more time than I would like at hospitals and doctors' offices. A couple of years ago all 3 of our local hospitals were building huge new additions. While taking a chemo treatment I looked around at the treatment stations (all occupied), the staff and the equipment (all in use) and said to myself, "Someone's making a bunch of money on all this!"

So I looked and Vanguard has a Health Care fund. Last March I went to my Roth and swapped my old Emerging Markets fund ($38,000) for Health Care. In June I did a $20k Roth conversion so I could go up to VGHAX ($50k minimum). That $60k last July turned into $79k this March, when I pruned it back a bit in order to retain my Boglehead certification.

5-year average yield is 22%. There is absolutely NO way that the Health Care industry as a whole is going to tank. What's not to like?

I categorize it as "Play Money" and try to keep it to 10%, same as my Int'l Stock allocation, but it's like ivy - it just keeps growing! <g>
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Kevin M
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Kevin M »

I don't, but I wish I had. It's more than just recently. According to M*, since 5/1984, $10K in VGHCX has grown to 1,542,859.75, while $10K in 500 Index (VFINX) has grown to 274,238.05. Also of note is that it held up better in 2008/2009.

But since I can't invest in the past, and can't predict the future, I'm not adding it to my portfolio. I'm working on eliminating things rather than adding things.

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Toons
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Toons »

TooLateSmart wrote:I'm 84 yrs old and have had CLL (leukemia) since 2002, so I spend more time than I would like at hospitals and doctors' offices. A couple of years ago all 3 of our local hospitals were building huge new additions. While taking a chemo treatment I looked around at the treatment stations (all occupied), the staff and the equipment (all in use) and said to myself, "Someone's making a bunch of money on all this!"

So I looked and Vanguard has a Health Care fund. Last March I went to my Roth and swapped my old Emerging Markets fund ($38,000) for Health Care. In June I did a $20k Roth conversion so I could go up to VGHAX ($50k minimum). That $60k last July turned into $79k this March, when I pruned it back a bit in order to retain my Boglehead certification.

5-year average yield is 22%. There is absolutely NO way that the Health Care industry as a whole is going to tank. What's not to like?

I categorize it as "Play Money" and try to keep it to 10%, same as my Int'l Stock allocation, but it's like ivy - it just keeps growing! <g>
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GoldenFinch
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by GoldenFinch »

Yep! When all those too much information "ask your doctor about..." drug commercials started appearing on TV years ago I thought, "Look at all these baby boomers, look at all these hospitals, look at all these pharmaceutical companies," and I invested in health care. So far, I'm not regretting it! :happy
Trader Joe
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Trader Joe »

Greenie wrote:I have owned the Vanguard HealthCare Fund many years ago. Does anyone here add VGHAX to their three or four fund portfolio?
Yes, the Vanguard Healthcare fund is a wonderful fund with fantastic returns.
island
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by island »

Do you all hold it in your tax deferred or ROTH? Is it tax effecient and suitable for a taxable account?
Last edited by island on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mlebuf
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by mlebuf »

Vanguard HealthCare was one of the first funds I bought when moving my investments to Vanguard in 1998. It has been very good to me. I kept hearing arguments that it was overpriced, the value is already priced in and it's very risky. However, it was my observation that health care is not subject to the whims of normal market forces and stayed invested. Have you ever heard of anyone shopping for the price of open-heart surgery?

HealthCare is not a tax efficient fund and best kept in tax-deferred or Roth accounts.

Years ago I read that Vanguard HealthCare had the highest average annual return of any mutual fund in the world over the past 30 years. As for the future, I learned long ago that my crystal ball is too cloudy to make predictions. But my hindsight is 20/20. :happy
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dgdevil
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by dgdevil »

TooLateSmart wrote: "Someone's making a bunch of money on all this!"
Genius! A lot of hospital time for me too - though in a good way - and I totally agree with you. Best of luck.
island wrote:Do you all hold it in your tax deferred or ROTH? Is it tax effecient and suitable for a taxable account?
According to Lipper, the only area where VGHAX (or -CX) is below average is in tax efficiency. I am at T. Rowe Price where PRHSX is merely average in that category, but a perfect 5 in everything else. I guess there is a lot of turnover and capital gains, propelled by nonstop merger activity.
island
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by island »

And why VGHCX managed fund rather than VHCIX, the health care index fund?
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by lack_ey »

island wrote:And why VGHCX managed fund rather than VHCIX, the health care index fund?
I think a lot of people don't realize the index fund exists. On top of that, the asset coverage is different (the managed fund has nontrivial international holdings), and the minimum investment is larger for the index fund at $100K, so somebody needs to either use the ETF, have a heavy concentration in the sector, and/or have two commas of assets. Furthermore, the managed fund is older and has a lot more assets, almost 10x. Certainly for the OP or others currently with a position in the managed fund, if there are tax consequences for switching, that would be a deterrent.

Also, some people like Wellington Management, if investment in Wellington and Wellesley Income funds is any indication.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by island »

lack_ey wrote:
island wrote:And why VGHCX managed fund rather than VHCIX, the health care index fund?
I think a lot of people don't realize the index fund exists. On top of that, the asset coverage is different (the managed fund has nontrivial international holdings), and the minimum investment is larger for the index fund at $100K, so somebody needs to either use the ETF, have a heavy concentration in the sector, and/or have two commas of assets. Furthermore, the managed fund is older and has a lot more assets, almost 10x. Certainly for the OP or others currently with a position in the managed fund, if there are tax consequences for switching, that would be a deterrent.

Also, some people like Wellington Management, if investment in Wellington and Wellesley Income funds is any indication.
Yikes, 100K!! I didn't realize that. Why so high, tying to control size or typical of some sector funds? Will have to investigate. :greedy
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by lack_ey »

island wrote:
lack_ey wrote:
island wrote:And why VGHCX managed fund rather than VHCIX, the health care index fund?
I think a lot of people don't realize the index fund exists. On top of that, the asset coverage is different (the managed fund has nontrivial international holdings), and the minimum investment is larger for the index fund at $100K, so somebody needs to either use the ETF, have a heavy concentration in the sector, and/or have two commas of assets. Furthermore, the managed fund is older and has a lot more assets, almost 10x. Certainly for the OP or others currently with a position in the managed fund, if there are tax consequences for switching, that would be a deterrent.

Also, some people like Wellington Management, if investment in Wellington and Wellesley Income funds is any indication.
Yikes, 100K!! I didn't realize that. Why so high, tying to control size or typical of some sector funds? Will have to investigate. :greedy
I think you're already gone investigating, but it's $100K minimums on all the sector funds. Except REIT.

I don't know of an official position why, but generally sector tilts (except REIT) are considered speculative so maybe they're trying to screen the little-guy investors out to protect them against themselves. Some of the more exotic stuff is only available with high minimums. The market neutral fund has a minimum of $250K, for example. The extended duration Treasuries (20-30 year zero-coupon bonds) fund is only available in institutional class offerings, $5M+.

Then again, for the index funds there's always the ETF share class.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by vv19 »

I am guessing this won't be a good fund to hold in your taxable?
dgdevil
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by dgdevil »

island wrote:
Yikes, 100K!! I didn't realize that. Why so high, tying to control size or typical of some sector funds? Will have to investigate. :greedy
Yikes, Squared!! A hundred grand and underperforming the sector. Guess this boosts defibrillator sales.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by mlebuf »

Post removed by author.
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island
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by island »

lack_ey wrote:
island wrote:
lack_ey wrote:
island wrote:And why VGHCX managed fund rather than VHCIX, the health care index fund?
I think a lot of people don't realize the index fund exists. On top of that, the asset coverage is different (the managed fund has nontrivial international holdings), and the minimum investment is larger for the index fund at $100K, so somebody needs to either use the ETF, have a heavy concentration in the sector, and/or have two commas of assets. Furthermore, the managed fund is older and has a lot more assets, almost 10x. Certainly for the OP or others currently with a position in the managed fund, if there are tax consequences for switching, that would be a deterrent.

Also, some people like Wellington Management, if investment in Wellington and Wellesley Income funds is any indication.
Yikes, 100K!! I didn't realize that. Why so high, tying to control size or typical of some sector funds? Will have to investigate. :greedy
I think you're already gone investigating, but it's $100K minimums on all the sector funds. Except REIT.

I don't know of an official position why, but generally sector tilts (except REIT) are considered speculative so maybe they're trying to screen the little-guy investors out to protect them against themselves. Some of the more exotic stuff is only available with high minimums. The market neutral fund has a minimum of $250K, for example. The extended duration Treasuries (20-30 year zero-coupon bonds) fund is only available in institutional class offerings, $5M+.

Then again, for the index funds there's always the ETF share class.
Thought what, no index? and searched the list of funds, but didn't look at minimums. Figured usual Admiral share cost, but noooo. Don't think I need to investigate any further. :oops:
chessmannextmove
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by chessmannextmove »

island wrote:Do you all hold it in your tax deferred or ROTH? Is it tax effecient and suitable for a taxable account?
I hold it in roth. And it is not tax efficient since it has some turn over.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by abuss368 »

We invested in the fund many years ago but sold in our attempt to consolidate funds to a more total markets focus.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Novine »

This is one of those funds that I've always talked myself out of adding because it would be a bad combination of chasing a hot sector and relying on past performance to justify the purchase. I tell myself every time that one of these days, it's going to blow up. I'm still waiting for that to happen.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Petrocelli »

I have been advocating buying VGHCX for as long as this forum has been around and, before that, in the old Diehards forum.

The general consensus of most posters here is that you shouldn't hold it because it's a sector bet.

Go figure.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by investor »

Petrocelli wrote:I have been advocating buying VGHCX for as long as this forum has been around and, before that, in the old Diehards forum.

The general consensus of most posters here is that you shouldn't hold it because it's a sector bet.

Go figure.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by investor »

island wrote:And why VGHCX managed fund rather than VHCIX, the health care index fund?
a quick check at Morningstar for 10 year growth of $10K gives

VGHCX $37076...Wellington capital managemenet
VHCIX. $32018... index fund

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Mrs.Feeley
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Mrs.Feeley »

jay22 wrote:I am guessing this won't be a good fund to hold in your taxable?
Last year the fund threw off capital gains of approx. 9 percent of one's holdings in the fund.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by prudent »

Mrs.Feeley wrote:
jay22 wrote:I am guessing this won't be a good fund to hold in your taxable?
Last year the fund threw off capital gains of approx. 9 percent of one's holdings in the fund.
Whoa, that's pretty big.
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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

Almost 15% of VTSMX is health care, that's enough for me.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by midareff »

I hold the fund at 10%. With an aging worldwide population, emerging market constructions of hospitals and clinics, continual development of new drugs to treat things that were untreatable previously and the push of Obamacare adding subscribers and patients in the US, I have conviction. I also don't know of any sector that has performed in a like manner over the last thirty years, offers international exposure (close to 25% at the moment) and is widely diversified within it's sector. VGHAX holds insurers, biotech, pharma, equipment makers and more. As an added plus healthcare seems to hold up better than most stock indexes in a crash. See 2007-8 @ M*. I hold it and REIT's in my IRA and have been well rewarded for that.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by midareff »

Petrocelli wrote:I have been advocating buying VGHCX for as long as this forum has been around and, before that, in the old Diehards forum.

The general consensus of most posters here is that you shouldn't hold it because it's a sector bet.

Go figure.

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LiveSimple
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by LiveSimple »

midareff wrote:
Petrocelli wrote:I have been advocating buying VGHCX for as long as this forum has been around and, before that, in the old Diehards forum.

The general consensus of most posters here is that you shouldn't hold it because it's a sector bet.

Go figure.

Sometimes you can lead the horse to water but they just won't drink.
Moved / designed to a Four Fund Equity Portfolio, with the plan to rebalance sporadically, for the next 10 / 20 years.
25 % Total Stock Index
25 % Total International Stock Index
25 % Extended Market Index for small / mid caps
25% in sectors mostly VHCIX + BioTech

Let me see what happens in 2030 - 2035.

Yes, it is partially performance chasing, but an opportunity to rebalance if one one goes up / down.
Anyway do need to get some performance / bet some sectors / atleast have some activity to watch.

Convinced myself this is the "best" portfolio for us, for all the readings / answers around simplicity, slice and dice, sectors, Small / Mid cap tilt, value tilt ? etc.
One day will coach DW, how to manage :happy

This post was very supportive of my thoughts. The lines such as "hospitals are growing", "who is looking for a best price for medical treatments" made me comfortable on my decision. Who knows :?
Last edited by LiveSimple on Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:25 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by ZumZabo »

I mentioned in another post, I have held Healthcare since the early 90's and couldn't be happier with it. I am primarily taxable and formerly held the managed fund. The managed fund spun off a lot of capital gains. I now use the index (vht) and the performance is acceptability similar and much more tax efficient. It is 10% of holdings now and has been much higher. I can't see ever eliminating it. There seems to be an endless and increasing demand for the product and the providers have incredible pricing power.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

I kind of feel dumb for not investing in this. But if I did it would probably underperform the next 30 years.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by gd »

TooLateSmart wrote: What's not to like?
LTCG. Bought it taxable decades ago before I cared much, and it blows out my low-cash-flow-low-tax-bracket planning every year. It's a good problem to have, but a problem.

To me, "sector" means mostly an investment area that ebbs and flows with economic conditions. The only thing I see materially affecting the health care industry is politics, and you'll have to go elsewhere to discuss that.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by ZumZabo »

zaboomafoozarg wrote:I kind of feel dumb for not investing in this. But if I did it would probably underperform the next 30 years.
Interesting, I'm afraid to sell it because I know if I do, it will outperform for the next 30 years. looks like on average we will both be correct. :happy
What makes me think I could start clean slated? The hardest to learn was the least complicated: Emily Saliers / And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know: Kerry Livgren
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by sharpjm »

With baby boomers, obamacare, etc, it seems like the fund is poised to continue strong into the future. I hold it in roth.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

midareff wrote:
Petrocelli wrote:I have been advocating buying VGHCX for as long as this forum has been around and, before that, in the old Diehards forum.

The general consensus of most posters here is that you shouldn't hold it because it's a sector bet.

Go figure.
Sometimes you can lead the horse to water but they just won't drink.
If I followed everyone who has tried to lead me to water, I'd have died of exhaustion by now. So many different ways to go, and they're all the obvious right way to the people following them.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by ResearchMed »

zaboomafoozarg wrote:I kind of feel dumb for not investing in this. But if I did it would probably underperform the next 30 years.
Thank you for not investing in healthcare :twisted:

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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by midareff »

zaboomafoozarg wrote:
midareff wrote:
Petrocelli wrote:I have been advocating buying VGHCX for as long as this forum has been around and, before that, in the old Diehards forum.

The general consensus of most posters here is that you shouldn't hold it because it's a sector bet.

Go figure.
Sometimes you can lead the horse to water but they just won't drink.
If I followed everyone who has tried to lead me to water, I'd have died of exhaustion by now. So many different ways to go, and they're all the obvious right way to the people following them.
Based on your stated conviction your buying would result in 30 years of under performance please stay awY LOL.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by UncleBen »

I put $25k of my ROTH in Vanguard HealthCare in 2005, added $5k in 2006 before I ever heard of Bogleheads or 3 or 4 fund portfolios. Never touched it again. Vanguard kindly moved me into the Admiral shares in 2012 when it went to $53k. Today it's worth $109k. I'm very happy with that and will let it stay.
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Kevin M »

Although envious of its past performance, my only justification for adding it to my portfolio now would be ... past performance. This would simply be succumbing to hindsight bias. The only reasons I've seen here for justifying over-weighting healthcare seem to be based on the belief in some special insight that for some reason "the market" has overlooked. I just don't believe that I can possibly have better insight than the professional, institutional investors I'm competing against (The Loser's Game).

Although I've read quite a bit about theoretical and empirical justifications for over-weighting small cap and value stocks, I've never seen any research that justifies over-weighting any particular sector over the long term. And I'm not even going to try and defend over-weighting small cap or value, so let's not go there.

Last time I looked at this, I was indeed surprised to find that a regression on either the 3-factor or 4-factor model shows close to 0 loading on small or value, relatively low loading on market (about 0.75), and very high alpha (about 7%/year). Betting on alpha makes me very nervous.

Why not Apple stock? Growth of $10K in AAPL over last 10 years is $221K, vs. a measley $37K for VGHCX. I actually owned a little AAPL during part of that time (as a separate holding--not what I own within my mutual funds), but unfortunately it was too tiny a portion of my portfolio to make much difference.

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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

ResearchMed wrote:Thank you for not investing in healthcare :twisted:
midareff wrote:Based on your stated conviction your buying would result in 30 years of under performance please stay awY LOL.
Well... we're going to see! :D

All the regret was killing me, so I did what any good stay-the-course Boglehead wouldn't do - said heck with my ISP and exchanged $3,000 of VTSAX for VGHCX.

Image

This is a one-time purchase known as "the zaboomafoozarg watch fund". It is less than 1% of my holdings. No additional contributions will be made and dividends/cap gains will be reinvested.

In a little under 30 years when I can make withdrawals from my IRA, I will use this money to buy a nice watch and post about it in the watch thread. Hopefully the returns will be as magnificent as everyone here predicts so that I can buy a magnificent watch. Also, hopefully my 15-year old $10 Acqua lasts me until then.

I have created a Google Calendar reminder 10 years from today, on 2025-03-25, to bump this thread and see how VGHCX's return has fared against VTSAX.

And if VGHCX tanks or lags the market, you can officially blame me :twisted:
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Kevin M »

^Thank you! Now that we know it will drop in value, I vow to also invest a small part of my portfolio in VGHCX or the HC index ETF--but only after a significant decline; I'm thinking -30% or so. Or maybe just lag VTSMX by 30% between now and ... Someone please bump this thread when that happens. ;-)

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ResearchMed
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by ResearchMed »

zaboomafoozarg wrote:
ResearchMed wrote:Thank you for not investing in healthcare :twisted:
midareff wrote:Based on your stated conviction your buying would result in 30 years of under performance please stay awY LOL.
Well... we're going to see! :D

All the regret was killing me, so I did what any good stay-the-course Boglehead wouldn't do - said heck with my ISP and exchanged $3,000 of VTSAX for VGHCX.

Image

This is a one-time purchase known as "the zaboomafoozarg watch fund". It is less than 1% of my holdings. No additional contributions will be made and dividends/cap gains will be reinvested.

In a little under 30 years when I can make withdrawals from my IRA, I will use this money to buy a nice watch and post about it in the watch thread. Hopefully the returns will be as magnificent as everyone here predicts so that I can buy a magnificent watch. Also, hopefully my 15-year old $10 Acqua lasts me until then.

I have created a Google Calendar reminder 10 years from today, on 2025-03-25, to bump this thread and see how VGHCX's return has fared against VTSAX.

And if VGHCX tanks or lags the market, you can officially blame me :twisted:
OMG!

SELL! SELL!!! SELL!!!

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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by hoops777 »

Maybe it really is as simple as the increasing aging population is guaranteed to need more healthcare.That is a fact,not an opinion or a hopeful projection.Now should that translate into a market beating return going forward?
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
Aish
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Aish »

hoops777 wrote:Maybe it really is as simple as the increasing aging population is guaranteed to need more healthcare.That is a fact,not an opinion or a hopeful projection.Now should that translate into a market beating return going forward?
Maybe it shouldn't, since investors are already aware of this information and would be priced into the securities.
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Kevin M
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by Kevin M »

It seems that high growth expectations are priced in--at least to some extent. P/E ratio is 37.4, vs. P/E of 21.4 for Total Stock. Earnings growth rate is only 3.5% vs. 13.9% for Total Stock. Source: Stock Fund Attributes

Kevin
If I make a calculation error, #Cruncher probably will let me know.
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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

ResearchMed wrote:OMG!

SELL! SELL!!! SELL!!!

RM
The order doesn't go through until tonight, so you have 1 day!
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ResearchMed
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by ResearchMed »

zaboomafoozarg wrote:
ResearchMed wrote:OMG!

SELL! SELL!!! SELL!!!

RM
The order doesn't go through until tonight, so you have 1 day!
OK, but is this frontrunning of sorts?

(Meh, who would ever know, right?)

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
dickyboy
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Re: Vanguard HealthCare Fund

Post by dickyboy »

I've had the Vanguard Health Care fund for many years and it's done very well. I just can't see how it will ever do poorly over the long haul given the number of baby boomers getting older and sicker. I'm keeping mine.
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