Interesting new Motif Investing product

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ryk1861
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:41 pm

Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by ryk1861 »

There is a new Motif product that should be just up the Bogleheads alley. They now offer nine set etf portfolios with varying weighting of Vanguard (and other) stock, bond, real estate, and commodity asset classes, depending on risk and time horizon. They trade and rebalance for free. These seem like they would be great for IRA/Roth IRA.

https://www.motifinvesting.com/horizon

Disclosure: I have built and invested in a handful of Motifs for personal use but no position in Horizon products and no overall business interest in Motif Investing.
steve_14
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Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:05 am

Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by steve_14 »

Motifs let you own up to 30 stocks based on ideas you come up with every day, from the latest economic, industrial and political swings to the most popular investing strategies -- all for one low price.


https://www.motifinvesting.com/about/mission

What could possibly go wrong? These investing websites seem to popping up daily. Bogleheads who keep it simple don't need them.
harmony
Posts: 574
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by harmony »

OP, do you have link that says motifinvesting's Horizon product trades and rebalances for free? If true, that would make it different from other cost information I have read about motifinvesting, i.e. $4.95 to buy or sell an individual security and $9.95 to rebalance.
Topic Author
ryk1861
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by ryk1861 »

harmony wrote:OP, do you have link that says motifinvesting's Horizon product trades and rebalances for free? If true, that would make it different from other cost information I have read about motifinvesting, i.e. $4.95 to buy or sell an individual security and $9.95 to rebalance.
The linked page says, "Commission-Free" in large letters at the top of the page. The email I received from Motif indicated that buying these Horizon Motifs and rebalancing them was free of charge. This seems like a viable, boglehead-ish option for someone looking for these allocations.

Edit: Here's another link with a detailed description and terms:

http://sparkline.motifinvesting.com/com ... otifs/6118
Last edited by ryk1861 on Fri May 16, 2014 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
ryk1861
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by ryk1861 »

steve_14 wrote:
Motifs let you own up to 30 stocks based on ideas you come up with every day, from the latest economic, industrial and political swings to the most popular investing strategies -- all for one low price.


https://www.motifinvesting.com/about/mission

What could possibly go wrong? These investing websites seem to popping up daily. Bogleheads who keep it simple don't need them.
I have used them for purchasing baskets of index ETFs. It's nice paying $9.95 for a custom basket (of up to 30, but realistically, most do not need more than 6-10) that I have created, rather than $7.95 per ETF per transaction. No doubt, some indexers could find this to be useful.
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RyeWhiskey
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Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by RyeWhiskey »

ryk1861 wrote:
harmony wrote:OP, do you have link that says motifinvesting's Horizon product trades and rebalances for free? If true, that would make it different from other cost information I have read about motifinvesting, i.e. $4.95 to buy or sell an individual security and $9.95 to rebalance.
The linked page says, "Commission-Free" in large letters at the top of the page. The email I received from Motif indicated that buying these Horizon Motifs and rebalancing them was free of charge. This seems like a viable, boglehead-ish option for someone looking for these allocations.

Edit: Here's another link with a detailed description and terms:

http://sparkline.motifinvesting.com/com ... otifs/6118
Here's the fine print:
$0.00 commission for trades (buys, sells, following rebalances) for the benchmark versions of the nine Motif-created Asset Allocation Horizon motifs. Commissions for any Horizon motifs that are customized in any way – adjust weighting, add or remove securities, choose not to following rebalance event, will include a $9.95 total commission per motif transaction or pay $4.95 per stock for individual stock/ETF transactions. Regular commissions apply for other Motif-created benchmark motifs and customer-created customized motifs ($9.95 total commission per motif transaction or $4.95 per stock for individual stock/ETF transactions. Other fees may apply. Motif reserves the right to review and amend the commission pricing structure at any time in the future and will notify you in writing of any intended changes. For details on fees and commissions for non-Horizon motifs, please click here.
This post was brought to you by Vanguard Total World Stock Index (VTWSX/VT).
harmony
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Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by harmony »

Yes, there it is "commission free" and I read a whole white paper looking for the information. I wonder if this a "loss leader" strategy, since ETFs typically don't have 12b1 fees. Some online discount brokers offer free trades for some of their mutual funds because they know they will get paid via the 12b1 fees. This does look interesting for those who don't have access to free trades elsewhere. Since Vanguard ETFs also trade without commision, what would be other advantages that you can see for using the Horizon motifs?

I'm curious, OP, what your experience has been like otherwise with motifinvesting. In late April there was a thread on here about someone whose wife wanted to do only SRI investing. Finally someone pointed out motifinvesting. We also do SRI investing and have been looking for a way to increase a certain sector without buying the whole sector ETF. Motifinvesting would allow us to do this.
Waba
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Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by Waba »

I like the concept, sort of a DIY ETF kit. Might extend the tax season a bit.
Tanelorn
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 9:35 pm

Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by Tanelorn »

Waba wrote:I like the concept, sort of a DIY ETF kit. Might extend the tax season a bit.
This is true of the whole Motif concept in general. They have motifs to mimick the Permanent Portfolio, the Lazy portfolio, etc. They even have an "Index Fans" motif with a reasonable mix of vanguard stock and bond efts, although many might quibble with the 10% allocation to gold.

https://www.motifinvesting.com/motifs/i ... #/overview

There is no reason you couldn't make your own version of any of these unless you want the free commissions/rebalancing feature of these Horizon ones. I would worry about a taxable account with monthly rebalancing and lots of fractional shares that this could be a headache. In an IRA that wouldn't matter.
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Random Musings
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Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by Random Musings »

Instead of performance chasing, perhaps one can indulge in motif chasing.

The index motif, referencing Bogle's name, has about 10% gold.

I'll pass.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
mhalley
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Re: Interesting new Motif Investing product

Post by mhalley »

I loved some of the names for the different motifs. Gotta get me some seven deadly sins! Maybe I should pull the "150 Portfolios better than yours" blog post over at White Coat Investor and put them in to get the Royalty Program commission!
https://www.motifinvesting.com/why-it-w ... ty-program
Mike
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