Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

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Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby RNJ » Tue May 07, 2013 11:34 am

Go to your M* portfolio -> x-ray -> x-ray details -> scroll down.


Average Mutual Fund Expense Ratio = 0.15% :happy
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby red5 » Tue May 07, 2013 12:49 pm

0.10%
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby InvestorNewb » Tue May 07, 2013 12:53 pm

0.105% 8-)

What's funny is that if I didn't happen to "stumble" across these message boards, I would likely be paying 10, 15, possibly even 20 times the expense ratio. Thankfully I arrived here at a relatively young age and have been absorbing the wisdom of all of the great folks on here. :beer
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby jeff1949 » Tue May 07, 2013 1:02 pm

I don't have access to the X-Ray......they want $$ from me. :(

Okay, found a way around that thanks to G-Money: 0.11%
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby G-Money » Tue May 07, 2013 1:04 pm

jeff1949 wrote:I don't have access to the X-Ray......they want $$ from me. :(

No they don't: http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport ... Entry.aspx
Don't assume I know what I'm talking about.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby G-Money » Tue May 07, 2013 1:05 pm

0.15%*

* Includes funds held in 401(k), but does not include additional administrative expenses charged to 401(k) participants.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby krannerd » Tue May 07, 2013 2:06 pm

0.20 Have a few funds in the 401k at 0.27 and 0.40 that are holding me back. Working to reallocate the 0.40 somewhere else.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby bottomfisher » Tue May 07, 2013 2:33 pm

0.20% A bit higher than earlier posters as a result of a significant portion invested through Simple IRA which doesn't allow upgrade to Admiral share class and a few sector funds.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Blues » Tue May 07, 2013 2:36 pm

According to Vanguard's website, my overall expense ratio is .07 due to the inclusion of TSP funds which are at .027 last I checked.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby sperry8 » Tue May 07, 2013 2:38 pm

.29%... and I agree, I'd be paying more if it wasn't for this board. So thanks!
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby EmergDoc » Tue May 07, 2013 2:40 pm

0.16%....BRSIX kills me. :) I'm not counting non-ER 401K and DBP fees.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby mhc » Tue May 07, 2013 2:48 pm

My holdings at Vanguard are 0.11%. Half my portfolio is in CIT's in work related accounts which average around 0.05%.

So roughly, my average is 0.08%.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby leod » Tue May 07, 2013 3:03 pm

0.21 for me last time i checked
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Hashy » Tue May 07, 2013 3:38 pm

0.10% for me - thanks to everyone for the help
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby John Z » Tue May 07, 2013 3:40 pm

0.12% with Coffeehouse portfolio plus some Wellsley Adm for lump sum pension.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby jasc15 » Tue May 07, 2013 3:42 pm

.07 This is IRA and taxable only, which is about 70% of my total portfolio. My 401k funds have no ticker symbols, but are very low expense also at ~0.01-0.10, and most of my $$ are in the S&P fund at 0.01%.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby tetractys » Tue May 07, 2013 4:02 pm

A couple of funds kill me, so from my spreadsheet E/R 0.21%. -- Tet
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby NightOwl » Tue May 07, 2013 4:08 pm

.11%, and that's with a healthy small value tilt in my Roth and half of my international in small (VSS). I have both Vanguard and Fidelity funds.

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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby lwfitzge » Tue May 07, 2013 4:12 pm

0.13% 8-) includes a healthy dose of SV/MV tilt and a few actively managed bond funds..
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Dale_G » Tue May 07, 2013 4:24 pm

.085% - and that includes a couple of pricey international bond funds from other vendors. Vanguard's international bond ETFs won't be cheap when they finally come out, but it might drive down my overall expense ratio by another .001%.

Every little bit helps :D

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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby ruralavalon » Tue May 07, 2013 4:30 pm

Average mutual fund expense ratio per M* and per Vanguard Portfolio Watch = 0.11%

For actual total portfolio, including individual bonds, just under 0.09%
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Random Musings » Tue May 07, 2013 4:40 pm

tetractys wrote:A couple of funds kill me, so from my spreadsheet E/R 0.21%. -- Tet


Same deal here - my 401K plan, which is about 10% of total assets, is the primary driver that brings it up to 0.20%. Take that out, my slight small-value load portfolio would have an ER of 0.15%.

Costs do matter. I am sympathetic towards individuals who are stuck with very poor (or even medicore) 401K plans where that is the primary investing vehicle for their retirement.

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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby gkaplan » Tue May 07, 2013 5:00 pm

Why do I need to go to Morningstar to get my average mutual fund expense ratio when I can figure it out myself?
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby chaz » Tue May 07, 2013 5:06 pm

0.10%.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby red5 » Tue May 07, 2013 5:21 pm

gkaplan wrote:Why do I need to go to Morningstar to get my average mutual fund expense ratio when I can figure it out myself?


Really?
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby RNJ » Tue May 07, 2013 5:49 pm

gkaplan wrote:Why do I need to go to Morningstar to get my average mutual fund expense ratio when I can figure it out myself?



Excellent point! So . . . ?
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby RNJ » Tue May 07, 2013 5:58 pm

As others have posted, my fees have gone down DRAMATICALLY since I began lurking on this board about a year ago. I am very, very grateful to have found the board.


My only actively managed fund is Vanguard's Inflation Protected Securities, Admiral shares (VAIPX, ER .1%). My most expensive fund is iShares EAFE Value (EFV) at .4%. My least expensive is Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI), at .05%.

BTW, I didn't mean to be a M* snob - sorry if I offended anyone.

Best,
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby z3r0c00l » Tue May 07, 2013 9:48 pm

.11% mostly because I am stuck with .2 in the intermediate term tax exempt since I cant afford admiral yet. Pretty darn happy with that number overall - 35% is total stock market works wonders.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby zaboomafoozarg » Tue May 07, 2013 9:58 pm

.16%. I could get it down to .13 or .14% if I moved some assets entirely to my Roth IRA, but .16% is good enough for me.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby bayview » Tue May 07, 2013 9:59 pm

Average Mutual Fund Expense Ratio (%) 0.10
Expense Ratio of Similarly Weighted Hypothetical Portfolio (%) 1.08
Estimated Mutual Fund Expenses ($) 139.50
Total Sales Charges Paid ($) 0.00

It's actually lower than that, because I had to use Vanguard funds as proxies for my TSP funds.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Tortoise » Tue May 07, 2013 10:11 pm

0.12%. Only bonds available in my 401(k) are Pimco with 0.45% and 0.46% ERs.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Duckie » Tue May 07, 2013 10:18 pm

0.09%
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby CyberBob » Tue May 07, 2013 11:39 pm

0.1050%
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby xram » Tue May 07, 2013 11:45 pm

0.1041%
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Aptenodytes » Wed May 08, 2013 8:02 am

I don't quite see the point of this exercise. Unless you are making a gross error in fund choice your aggregate expense ratio is going to be driven by what fraction of your portfolio is in fixed income (and within that fraction how much is in zero-cost options such as individual TIPS); by the degree to which you tilt; and by your international exposure.

The question is kind of like asking how much someone weighs without also asking how tall they are. E.g. I could get my expense ratio to zero by putting everything in cash. If all I told you was that my ER was extremely low you'd get the wrong impression about how savvy I was.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Aptenodytes » Wed May 08, 2013 8:10 am

I should have added to my list of ER drivers the constraints imposed by your employer. But that's just another source of incomparability.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Default User BR » Wed May 08, 2013 12:55 pm

Aptenodytes wrote:I don't quite see the point of this exercise.

I agree, as is so often in the case of these data-collection exercises. Average ER doesn't tell you much. You could a poor one that is as good as you can do. Conversely, you could have a good one with areas for improvement. The only ER examination that's useful is looking at each fund.


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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby feh » Wed May 08, 2013 1:20 pm

.17

Little higher than average because half my bond holdings are PTTRX.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Phineas J. Whoopee » Wed May 08, 2013 1:25 pm

Aptenodytes wrote:I should have added to my list of ER drivers the constraints imposed by your employer. But that's just another source of incomparability.

Great Point, Great Penguin [= L. genus Gr. Aptenodytes].

I benefited from a 401(k) fee change adopted in the wake of the full disclosure law (although the fees had been fully disclosed all along). Others, sadly, were harmed.

The fee used to be based on actual expenses plus a defined percentage for our 401(k) administrator, charged on assets under management, and typically ran around 8 basis points; although it was charged quarterly by selling shares which meant one had to fire up the ol' numeracy brain box to calculate its true effect.

The quarterly fee is still based on cost +, but now it's charged per account. Given my above-average tenure and long-time commitment to maxing contributions, for me it works out to approximately 2 basis points. I don't think the administrator has greatly reduced costs, so relative to the old structure we wealthy are being subsidized by those less so.

For my 4-account retirement portfolio the total today is 10 basis points. Prior to 401(k) changes in the past three four years (those included making lower-cost share classes available) it was 20+.

PJW
[Edited the number of years, which I note I seem to wish to remember as fewer than they were.]
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby donaldfair71 » Wed May 08, 2013 1:29 pm

.06...

But it will go up a few base points as I continue to blend VXUS and VNQ into my portfolio.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby TimesAWastin » Wed May 08, 2013 2:00 pm

G-Money wrote:
jeff1949 wrote:I don't have access to the X-Ray......they want $$ from me. :(

No they don't: http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport ... Entry.aspx


Or http://www.troweprice.com/, you can create a free online account without actually opening a TRP banking/investment account, and it gives you full access to portfolio management w/ x-ray detail.

0.20% here. That'll drop substantially in a few days. :-)
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Jake46 » Wed May 08, 2013 2:14 pm

.14% now.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Red-y » Thu May 09, 2013 12:22 am

.14 after making some changes earlier this year in accordance with helpful guidance from this forum.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby bearwolf » Thu May 09, 2013 5:57 am

.11% Combo of Fidelity Spartan funds, vanguard index funds, BND and TIP.

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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Rob54keep » Thu May 09, 2013 6:16 am

It's 0.11...but its still a good amount of $$ per year.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby empb » Thu May 09, 2013 6:19 am

If this isn't a weighted average, it's not particularly useful, no? In any case, my spreadsheet does it for me. 0.34% for a heavily SV tilted, 85% equity portfolio.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby nisiprius » Thu May 09, 2013 6:51 am

I don't feel like calculating, but all the mutual funds I hold are Vanguard funds, and the one with the highest ER among them is Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securities, VIPSX, 0.20%, so my average is less than 0.20%. I think that's about as much as I need to know.

Morningstar usually starts to call expense ratios "low" long before you get down to 0.50% (they don't use a cutoff, they use some kind of percentile criterion for each fund category). Most of the horror-story stuff about the fund company taking a third of your earnings applies to "average" expense ratios in the 1.0-1.5% range. Similarly, although I've seen results that show that expense ratios are the only reliable predictors of performance, what those results show--can't find the actual numbers now--are that the really high expenses, like 1.5% or more, reliably predict underperformance; not that funds with 0.10% expenses reliably outperform those with 0.20% expenses. (There is one important exception to that, of course--in Vanguard's fund family, Admiral shares do reliably outperform Investor shares by just about the amount you'd calculate, given the ER difference).

I don't approve of expense-ratio absolutism. Do the math. Of course you will be richer if you pick up pennies from the sidewalk than if you don't, but what counts is differences in expense ratios, not multiples. A fund with 0.20% expenses may be costing you "twice as much" as one with 0.10% expense, but on a $10,000 investment it is the difference between $20 and $10 and it is ten bucks. I feel that once you get down to 0.25% or lower, it gets to be more about bragging rights and "the principle of the thing" than it is about dollars.

I did have my Aha! moment, though, and it happened in this forum. I had been hanging on to Pax World Balanced Fund, a rather small holding--more than a token, but not a big percentage of my portfolio. It is an actively managed fund, and at that time, it had an expense ratio of about 1%. I justified it by noting that its past performance had been slightly higher than Vanguard Balanced Index, although it was obvious from its holdings why that was--more risk. Nothing extreme or unreasonable, good stuff, international, weighted toward midcaps. But some mischievous poster suggested calculating the absolute dollar number of expenses for each fund we held, and when I did, I was surprised to find that this small holding was costing me more total dollars than all of my Vanguard fund combined. I didn't do anything about it right away, but it ate at me, and eventually I dumped it.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Johm221122 » Thu May 09, 2013 9:54 am

.58 I have been trying to lower it but my 401 is terrible and I pay .8 for 500 index :annoyed
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby Bradley » Thu May 09, 2013 10:11 am

.19 which includes 3 relatively high er's of 3 DFA funds which make up 20.5% of portfoilo
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Re: Show us your M* Average MFund Exp Ratio %

Postby SpringMan » Thu May 09, 2013 10:17 am

Vanguard reports our as .2%, but it is less. Vanguard has higher incorrect expense ratios for several funds we hold. Vanguard does not include reductions Fidelity applies to many Spartan funds. Also Vanguard has Pimco's Income Fund, PIMIX, which we hold as .61% where M* says it .4%. M* has our overall ER as .18. Either way I am okay with that. I honestly feel many folks here place too much emphasis on ER.
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