Any formal statement from US bonds?

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Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby jbyoun1990 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:48 pm

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Last edited by jbyoun1990 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby hollowcave2 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:55 pm

You won't get any statement for the I-bonds until your redeem them. No taxes are owed on savings bonds until you redeem or they mature, normally after 30 years.

If you own TIPS or other Treasury notes, then you will have a statement for those. The majority of people would hold those in Treasury Direct and the statements are in electronic form there.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby sscritic » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:58 pm

For a divorce, if you have the paper bonds, you have the owner's name(s) on them, you have the dates, you have the face values, and you each can use a calculator to find the current values. For any other legal proceeding, you have a copy machine. If you have accounts at TD, there is only one owner. What do you see when you look at your account? Do you have a printer connected to your computer?

I guess I am not quite sure what you want.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby livesoft » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:07 pm

I haven't logged into Treasury Direct since I bought an I-bond a few years ago. I don't even know where I put about the account number, so without an extended search in my home, I will not be able to ask them to reset my login credentials. The web site doesn't give you any help if you have forgotten all your info.

I wonder if the account will escheat to the state government if there is no activity? I hope that happens as that would make it easier to get the money than to get help from Treasury Direct directly.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby jbyoun1990 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:19 pm

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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby sscritic » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:43 pm

TD doesn't have coowners. They have "with"s, aka primaries and secondaries. Only the primary counts, as the primary can remove the secondary, but the secondary can't remove the primary.
Forms of registration for individuals. The forms of registration available for individuals for purchases of securities made through your TreasuryDirect account are single owner, owner with beneficiary, and primary owner with secondary owner, unless the forms of registration available for a security are specifically limited by the subpart governing that security.
(1) Single owner. (i) A single owner is the individual named in the registration of a book-entry security or a converted savings bond without a beneficiary, secondary owner, or coowner.
(ii) A single owner may add a beneficiary or secondary owner.
...
Primary owner with secondary owner. (i) The purchaser must be named in the registration as the primary owner with another individual as secondary owner.
(ii) The primary owner holds the securities in his or her account and may view or conduct permitted online transactions in the securities.
(iii) The primary owner may remove the secondary owner without the consent of the secondary owner.
(iv) The secondary owner has no rights to view or conduct transactions in any security unless the primary owner gives the secondary owner these rights.
...
(vii) The primary owner may revoke any rights previously given to the secondary owner at any time.
...
(xi) Registration example: ‘‘John Doe, SSN 123–45–6789 with Joseph Doe, SSN 987–65–4321.’’
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/forms/savpart363.pdf

You aren't much of an owner if someone else can remove you without your consent. The primary owner has rights; the secondary has none, unless granted by the primary owner.

Note that a bond registered as primary with secondary is in the account of the primary. There is no joint account. A person can have both individually owned bonds and primary with secondary bonds in their account, but the secondary has no "secondary" bonds in his account.
A TreasuryDirect account is an online account maintained by us solely in your name in which you may hold and conduct transactions in eligible book-entry Treasury securities.
(a) Primary account. The primary account is the account that you establish when initially opening your TreasuryDirect account. The primary account may contain the following Treasury securities:
(1) Individual. A primary account for an individual may contain Treasury securities purchased initially as book-entry securities that are your personal holdings registered in single owner, owner with beneficiary, and primary owner with secondary owner forms of registration; gifts of savings bonds that have not yet been delivered; and converted savings bonds that were transferred from the conversion linked account.


You have an account; it is not a joint account. You can hold bonds in your sole name in your account, and you can hold bonds with yourself as primary in your account, but no one else can hold bonds in your account. Nor can you hold bonds in someone else's account. And now my usual disclaimer: at least that's the way I read. You can read the regs for yourself using the link above.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby sscritic » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:24 pm

Added: What you think of as official may not be as official as you think. When you redeem a bond, they don't send you a 1099. The put the image of a 1099 on the web and let you print it on your printer. But you say that's not official, so even then you don't get anything official.

If you redeem electronic bonds in your TreasuryDirect account, your 1099-INT will be available through your account.

Log in to TreasuryDirect and go to ManageDirect. Form 1099-INT is one of the links on the ManageDirect page.


For your convenience, we provide the printable IRS Form 1099 on or before January 31 of the selected tax year. This form complies with all Internal Revenue Service regulations. It includes entries, when applicable, that are reportable on Forms 1099-INT, 1099-B, and 1099-OID. We display our (the Payer's) Federal Identification Number. We also display the name and address of Account Holder, TreasuryDirect Account Number, and Taxpayer Identification Number. Any partial or full redemptions and/or transfers and interest/maturity payments are listed as reportable tax events for the selected tax year.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby jeffyscott » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:00 am

While I much prefer the convenience of the online TD account over paper bonds, I do think the Federal government should send an annual account statement.

Do they do anything, ever? Do they mail a notice if bonds have matured or stopped paying interest, do they get notified by SS that a person has died so they can check if the deceased had an account and they can find the heirs? If no one has logged on to an account in 10 years, will they look into it to see if the account was forgotten or the owner is dead?
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby sscritic » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:06 am

I am shocked, totally shocked. The world has gone paperless. The IRS wants you to e-file. They don't want paper. There is another running thread about a guy who just wants a paper bill from his cable company. 95% of the responses here told him to meet the 21st century and go paperless. What part of TD is paperless is hard to understand?

Of course, don't try and change your bank. Then TD wants six forms in triplicate signed in blood and testified to with the blood of four bankers, but not just any bankers, bankers on the list of TD approved blood donors.

Where was I? Oh, yes, it's a paperless world.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby HueyLD » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:25 am

I am shocked, totally shocked. The world has gone paperless. The IRS wants you to e-file. They don't want paper.......Where was I? Oh, yes, it's a paperless world.

The paperless society has been predicted for decades, and we seem to be finally moving toward that direction. I think eventually we all have to pay additional cost just to have the privilege of receiving paper confirmations, notices, statements, etc.

PenFed already charges anyone for paper anything. However, it also passes along savings to members in better rates for deposits and loans. So, we don't hear complaints about PenFed's charges for sending paper statements. I think the TD's paperless policy also allows it to pay more to savings bond holders. For those who insist on receiving paper, they can certain refuse to conduct business with companies that won't provide paper statements and/or charge additional fees for sending paper statements. As they say, it's a free country.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby Saving$ » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:58 pm

This thread makes me wonder how an executor of an estate would discover and recover such assets. I'm particularly wondering as I am the executor of an estate; the decedent did not even have a computer, and I did not find anything in the personal effects to indicate bonds, but that may not mean much. I was sort of counting on yearly statements mailed to the house. Since it took the family over a year to clear out the house and move on, mail was received there and retrieved by a trusted neighbor for over a year; then I had the mail forwarded to a PO Box, which the PO would only do for 12 months. I figured by that time I had recovered all the assets. Maybe not. How do I even start looking for this?
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby caroljm36 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:04 pm

livesoft wrote:I haven't logged into Treasury Direct since I bought an I-bond a few years ago. I don't even know where I put about the account number, so without an extended search in my home, I will not be able to ask them to reset my login credentials. The web site doesn't give you any help if you have forgotten all your info.

I wonder if the account will escheat to the state government if there is no activity? I hope that happens as that would make it easier to get the money than to get help from Treasury Direct directly.


I just went through this same thing last week...sent a frantic email to their technical support and they called back in 5-10 minutes. They ask a bunch of security questions then give you your account number. ( I did know it started with a letter, and I had just tried the letters of the alphabet it would have popped up anyway and I could have done the rest.)
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby sscritic » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:10 pm

I have one of those password programs on my computer for storing the user id and password for each of my accounts, but especially for those I only use once every two years. The older I get and the more the dementia sets in, the more I need it. I am worried about getting locked out though, so I am thinking of getting another password program to store the password for the program that contains all my passwords.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby Phineas J. Whoopee » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:52 pm

livesoft wrote:I haven't logged into Treasury Direct since I bought an I-bond a few years ago. I don't even know where I put about the account number, so without an extended search in my home, I will not be able to ask them to reset my login credentials. The web site doesn't give you any help if you have forgotten all your info.

I wonder if the account will escheat to the state government if there is no activity? I hope that happens as that would make it easier to get the money than to get help from Treasury Direct directly.

Hi livesoft,

Usually you're right but not this time.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/RS/UN-Forgot.do

Not to pick on you but I simply don't understand the abuse heaped on treasurydirect.gov on these fora. The most vicious was back before public opinion forced them to worsen security.

PJW
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby Rainier » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:58 pm

What do I need to do if I need a statement for applying for a mortgage, for example? Just print a screen grab?
- Bill
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby livesoft » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:06 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:Usually you're right but not this time.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/RS/UN-Forgot.do

Not to pick on you but I simply don't understand the abuse heaped on treasurydirect.gov on these fora. The most vicious was back before public opinion forced them to worsen security.

PJW

Thanks, but ...
I tried that screen a couple weeks ago. Have you tried it? Once you click on "Continue" you have to answer at least 3 security questions correctly as well. I tried various answers and could not get past those security questions.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby dkturner » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:17 pm

sscritic wrote:I have one of those password programs on my computer for storing the user id and password for each of my accounts, but especially for those I only use once every two years. The older I get and the more the dementia sets in, the more I need it. I am worried about getting locked out though, so I am thinking of getting another password program to store the password for the program that contains all my passwords.


Why not pick a master password, like "BoblovesMary", and spray paint it on as many walls as you can find. Easy for you to find, but tough for the average Internet hacker to trace to your computer. :idea:
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby Phineas J. Whoopee » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:31 pm

livesoft wrote:
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:Usually you're right but not this time.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/RS/UN-Forgot.do

Not to pick on you but I simply don't understand the abuse heaped on treasurydirect.gov on these fora. The most vicious was back before public opinion forced them to worsen security.

PJW

Thanks, but ...
I tried that screen a couple weeks ago. Have you tried it? Once you click on "Continue" you have to answer at least 3 security questions correctly as well. I tried various answers and could not get past those security questions.

Fair enough livesoft.

If you don't remember your security question answers it's no worse than any similar situation on vanguard.com.

Perhaps you might ask TD yourself:

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/WF/WebFeedback?site=td01&subject=tdlogprob

There's a field for account number but I just tried a phony message and the form accepted it without my filling that part in.

Now, granted, they say specifically to email them or write to them rather than phoning them regarding savings bonds:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/call.htm

Their physical address is here:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/write.htm

Also granted, you originally said
livesoft wrote:The web site doesn't give you any help if you have forgotten all your info.

Perhaps that means I was too harsh, supposing you remembered any of your info. You seem at least to remember you purchased I Bonds there. It ought to be enough to start with.

I don't mean to defend treasurydirect.gov, or US Treasury securities, or our entire financial system. But I think you'll find you can recover access to your account. If necessary I'll find a way for me or somebody else to help you. PM me.

PJW
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby caroljm36 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:02 pm

livesoft wrote:
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:Usually you're right but not this time.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/RS/UN-Forgot.do

Not to pick on you but I simply don't understand the abuse heaped on treasurydirect.gov on these fora. The most vicious was back before public opinion forced them to worsen security.

PJW

Thanks, but ...
I tried that screen a couple weeks ago. Have you tried it? Once you click on "Continue" you have to answer at least 3 security questions correctly as well. I tried various answers and could not get past those security questions.


I was exactly in the same position you're in. I was beside myself.... SEND them an email note via their contact link. They called me back in 10 minutes, and I hadn't even given them my phone number. In fact they called the home number on my acct and my husband had them call me at work. I muffed one security question partially, but we got it squared away and I had my statement in minutes.

I'd say that was some pretty fair customer support for an entity as big as that.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby livesoft » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:00 pm

Thanks, I did send them an e-mail note, but when I sent it, it was not during banking hours. I have not gotten any response, but perhaps they did call. We don't answer our phone and don't listen to messages on the answering machine, so I wouldn't know if they did call. :)

When I get 'round to it, I will call them sometime. Y'all can figure out that this is not exactly a high priority in my life.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby Phineas J. Whoopee » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:07 pm

livesoft wrote:Thanks, I did send them an e-mail note, but when I sent it, it was not during banking hours. I have not gotten any response, but perhaps they did call. We don't answer our phone and don't listen to messages on the answering machine, so I wouldn't know if they did call. :)

When I get 'round to it, I will call them sometime. Y'all can figure out that this is not exactly a high priority in my life.

Indeed.

Nor are the instructions evidently.

They say specifically to email or write physically. If not following the instructions doesn't work will you be back with a new complaint for us to respond to?

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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby investnoob13 » Wed May 01, 2013 8:32 pm

Rainier wrote:What do I need to do if I need a statement for applying for a mortgage, for example? Just print a screen grab?


Sorry about resurrected this old thread. How do I show the lender that I own i-bond? Does anyone has such experience?

thanks in advance,
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby Mel Lindauer » Wed May 01, 2013 9:52 pm

investnoob13 wrote:
Rainier wrote:What do I need to do if I need a statement for applying for a mortgage, for example? Just print a screen grab?


Sorry about resurrected this old thread. How do I show the lender that I own i-bond? Does anyone has such experience?

thanks in advance,


Since Savings Bonds can't legally be used/pledged as collateral, I don't understand what good showing the lender a statement would do. Even if you failed to pay your mortgage, they can't seize your Savings Bonds without going through the legal process and getting a court order. In the meantime, after you got the mortgage, you could have redeemed the Savings Bonds and spent the money, so in that case, they're not even available for a court order. Perhaps your mortgage lender simply doesn't know the law.
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby investnoob13 » Wed May 01, 2013 10:44 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
investnoob13 wrote:
Rainier wrote:What do I need to do if I need a statement for applying for a mortgage, for example? Just print a screen grab?


Sorry about resurrected this old thread. How do I show the lender that I own i-bond? Does anyone has such experience?

thanks in advance,


Since Savings Bonds can't legally be used/pledged as collateral, I don't understand what good showing the lender a statement would do. Even if you failed to pay your mortgage, they can't seize your Savings Bonds without going through the legal process and getting a court order. In the meantime, after you got the mortgage, you could have redeemed the Savings Bonds and spent the money, so in that case, they're not even available for a court order. Perhaps your mortgage lender simply doesn't know the law.


Thanks Mel. I was curious about this since I was asked to show all our assets/accounts when applying for a refinance/mortgage. I am using iBond as a part of my fixed income strategy in our AA. I was wondering if someone has similar experience to share.

Thanks,
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby Mel Lindauer » Wed May 01, 2013 11:18 pm

investnoob13 wrote:
Mel Lindauer wrote:
investnoob13 wrote:
Rainier wrote:What do I need to do if I need a statement for applying for a mortgage, for example? Just print a screen grab?


Sorry about resurrected this old thread. How do I show the lender that I own i-bond? Does anyone has such experience?

thanks in advance,


Since Savings Bonds can't legally be used/pledged as collateral, I don't understand what good showing the lender a statement would do. Even if you failed to pay your mortgage, they can't seize your Savings Bonds without going through the legal process and getting a court order. In the meantime, after you got the mortgage, you could have redeemed the Savings Bonds and spent the money, so in that case, they're not even available for a court order. Perhaps your mortgage lender simply doesn't know the law.


Thanks Mel. I was curious about this since I was asked to show all our assets/accounts when applying for a refinance/mortgage. I am using iBond as a part of my fixed income strategy in our AA. I was wondering if someone has similar experience to share.

Thanks,


Even though Savings Bonds can't be used/pledged as collateral, since you said they wanted to see all of your assets/accounts, apparently they just want to see your overall financial situation as opposed to using them as collateral. Or perhaps they don't know any better and expect to use your Savings Bonds as collateral?
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Re: Any formal statement from US bonds?

Postby jeffyscott » Thu May 02, 2013 6:29 pm

The collateral for a mortgage is the property that is mortgaged.

I guess maybe I'd just print the current holdings summary page and account information page and let them tell me what else they want, if that was somehow inadequate documentation. Both of those pages have the account number, so that would seem to me to demonstrate that you own them.
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