buying a gold coin from individual

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LH
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buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/clt/2895613079.html

Listing off craigs list for an american gold eagle coin.

I have a gold coin tester from www.goldcoinbalance.com

Now, he wants 1700 cash, so how does one make the trade, in a public place or something?

I am thinking of waiting maybe another year or so, then maybe buy a single gold coin. This price seems pretty good compared to apmex, which I assume adds in shipping cost as well.

http://www.apmex.com/Category/290/Gold_ ... Prior.aspx

I am assuming this is a standard US american eagle?

Also the local gold coin shop charges spot + 100 dollars for a gold coin, so this would be 100 dollars cheaper.

Any suggestions, thoughts, mechanistic info about a transaction like this would be appreciated.

Thanks,

LH
Johm221122
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Johm221122 »

No way I would do it! Buy only from real dealer,it is not worth the risk.If he is selling it this way,how are you going to sell it?
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

buy and hold : )

To sell, could go to a dealer, or do it off craigslist or whatever.
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prudent
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by prudent »

No way would I buy gold coins from a craigslist ad, and I have decades of experience with coins.
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norookie
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by norookie »

:moneybag
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by nisiprius »

I would not do it.

Why isn't this seller selling it at the local coin shop?
Last edited by nisiprius on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rob5TCP
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Rob5TCP »

A real gold coin can be taken to almost any dealer and get a few % of what he would on Craigslist. Why would he
sell there. The buy/sell spread of most good dealers is a few % points on either side. I would not risk it so
save a few dollars. Some might consider the risk if they are expert at this. I wouldn't take the chance on getting
a gold plated fake.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Khanmots »

nisiprius wrote:I would not do it.

Why isn't this seller selling it at the local coin shop?
I'd guess that, if the coin exists (you're not getting setup to be mugged), and if it's valid, then the coin is hot.
111
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by 111 »

I've sold gold to people via craigslist before. I just arranged to meet at my bank so it's a public place with a little extra security. Plus, that way I could immediately deposit the cash & didn't have to be as worried about getting mugged immediately afterward.
Snowjob
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Snowjob »

I'm so glad my doomsday plan doesnt involve gold, look at the hassle involved in a single gold coin when times are normal
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by hazlitt777 »

Johm221122 wrote:No way I would do it! Buy only from real dealer,it is not worth the risk.If he is selling it this way,how are you going to sell it?
If it is a standard one ounce modern bullion piece, any gold firm will buy it from you, whether you bought from them or not.

Look at this site to get a sense of what one should pay for a bullion piece:

http://www.golddealer.com/

Just click on the upper left hand link, and scroll down to see their buy/sell prices to determine the right price. If you have held a bullion piece and listened to how it sounds on a wood table, you will be able to tell if it is real.
Last edited by hazlitt777 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by hazlitt777 »

nisiprius wrote:I would not do it.

Why isn't this seller selling it at the local coin shop?
Because it is much better to take the middle man out of the transaction. But I would want to know the person, or at least some knowledge of who the seller is. And just like going and looking at a used car, you don't have to commit to buying anything till you saw it and held it.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Johm221122 »

hazlitt777 wrote:
Johm221122 wrote:No way I would do it! Buy only from real dealer,it is not worth the risk.If he is selling it this way,how are you going to sell it?
If it is a standard one ounce modern bullion piece, any gold firm will buy it from you, whether you bought from them or not.

Look at this site to get a sense of what one should pay for a bullion piece:

http://www.golddealer.com/

Just click on the upper left hand link, and scroll down to see their buy/sell prices to determine the right price. If you have held a bullion piece and listened to how it sounds on a wood table, you will be able to tell if it is real.
Risk= reward 5 or 10 % not worth getting mugged,shot, or caught with stolen property.Is this even a serious post,are you crazy,life is too short and strangers are not to be trusted.Not me not in a million years.Just buy it from dealer
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Rob5TCP
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Rob5TCP »

At the site just listed, the buy/sell spread seems to be 3%. If the coin is stolen, he could still sell to a dealer. How would the dealer know if it were stolen or not. I doubt there are any indications whether this is a stolen coin or serial numbers that give it away. It seems fishy that he would sell it on Craigslist rather than a dealer.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by hazlitt777 »

Johm221122 wrote:
hazlitt777 wrote:
Johm221122 wrote:No way I would do it! Buy only from real dealer,it is not worth the risk.If he is selling it this way,how are you going to sell it?
If it is a standard one ounce modern bullion piece, any gold firm will buy it from you, whether you bought from them or not.

Look at this site to get a sense of what one should pay for a bullion piece:

http://www.golddealer.com/

Just click on the upper left hand link, and scroll down to see their buy/sell prices to determine the right price. If you have held a bullion piece and listened to how it sounds on a wood table, you will be able to tell if it is real.
Risk= reward 5 or 10 % not worth getting mugged,shot, or caught with stolen property.Is this even a serious post,are you crazy,life is too short and strangers are not to be trusted.Not me not in a million years.Just buy it from dealer
It intrigues me how we can come up with ways to meet and discuss and sell just about anything....but when it comes to gold, there is all this mystery and intrigue and fear. Gold is so foreign to our generation that our reactions to handling it is like the reaction of the Aztecas when they first saw the horse. Handling, buying, selling and trading gold bullion coins is far easier than art work, diamonds, homes, real estate etc, because....gold bullion is gold bullion almost in the same way that a 100 dollar bill is a 100 dollar bill. This is true if you stick with one ounce modern bullion pieces, and with a few caveats, also true of other bullion pieces.

Don't be afraid to hold or touch it. It won't bite like a horse, and it can diversify and protect your portfolio like nothing else. LH, have fun with your meeting. Ask him why he bought it, wants to sell it, where he got it. Just like you would of somebody selling a piece of art or a car. Tell me how the meeting goes. I would like to know how it goes. I've done it myself, and I am still alive!
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by pjstack »

Earlier in these postings the OP said that a dealer wanted to sell a coin at "spot = $100.
That's outrageous unless it was a "numismatic" version, such as a proof coin, etc.

The OP should check out the links already given above to get an idea of competitive sales prices for bullion coins. Then he should check out local dealer's web sites.

Buy from a dealer. There are counterfiets out there.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Johm221122 »

I have no problem with someone choosing gold as an asset class they want to hold.I would not buy it from stranger.Have you ever heard in poker if you don't know who the sucker at the table is its you.I was not stating I would not own gold( but I probably will never)
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

Snowjob wrote:I'm so glad my doomsday plan doesnt involve gold, look at the hassle involved in a single gold coin when times are normal
: )

It is interesting isn't it?
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

111 wrote:I've sold gold to people via craigslist before. I just arranged to meet at my bank so it's a public place with a little extra security. Plus, that way I could immediately deposit the cash & didn't have to be as worried about getting mugged immediately afterward.
Ah, thanks. I was considering in front of police station or at a mall or something, but that makes even more sense.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by SPG8 »

LH wrote:
111 wrote:I've sold gold to people via craigslist before. I just arranged to meet at my bank so it's a public place with a little extra security. Plus, that way I could immediately deposit the cash & didn't have to be as worried about getting mugged immediately afterward.
Ah, thanks. I was considering in front of police station or at a mall or something, but that makes even more sense.
Right, because the criminal mastermind that would design this particular robbery would never follow you home.

Of course, all the driving tips from the Rockford Files make that moot.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Stonebr »

Johm221122 wrote:No way I would do it! Buy only from real dealer,it is not worth the risk.If he is selling it this way,how are you going to sell it?
Not sure I understand your concerns. From 2000 to 2006 I bought about 60 gold eagles. Only a few of them from dealers -- most over ebay from private sellers. I've had no problem re-selling the eagles to dealers in the last year or two. A gold eagle is a gold eagle. As long as you have a way of verifying that it's not a fake, you should be okay.

To the OP, I'd suggest you meet in the lobby of your bank for the transaction. Then immediately deposit the cash.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

http://www.goldcoinbalance.com/

For those with concerns about fake gold coins should read that page.

There are reportedly new tungsten fakes that may be able to pass the above tests?

http://www.fisch.co.za/faq.htm
Metals with a density comparable to gold that could be used to make a fake coin correct in both weight and size are the platinum group metals and tungsten. The price of the platinum group metals precludes their use. Tungsten is an extremely hard, yet brittle metal that would be very difficult to work into a passable fake coin. The talk of tungsten fake bullion coins and small 1oz. bars has been around for at least 30 years now. But none have ever surfaced
The fisch is a more expensive gold coin detector.

Some have said they would think the tungstens would feel or ring different, such as when tapped and such on table. I do not know. What little I have read, seems to have some mythologic qualities to it. The reports of fake tungsten bars (now bars would be easier to fake) are often coupled with a mention of how fort knox has a bunch of fakes in it.....

The thing also with buying US American Eagles, is that fraud would bring in the secret service. So even if the tungsten fakes exist, and would pass the test, you would be dealing with severe penalties bringing them into the US.

Basically these detectors are quick and simple.

Diameter of coin, thickness, weight of coin.

Its just physically hard to fake a gold coin that passes these measurements. All the metals that are as dense as gold, are either more expensive, platinum, or hard to work with, tungsten. Tungsten cannot be stamped, too brittle.

http://www.goldcoinbalance.com/http:/ww ... -gold-coin

There is another link that goes into it.

His take on possible tungsten fakes is that the gold coin detector would fail to detect it, but that none exist as far as he knows.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

Stonebr wrote:
Johm221122 wrote:No way I would do it! Buy only from real dealer,it is not worth the risk.If he is selling it this way,how are you going to sell it?
Not sure I understand your concerns. From 2000 to 2006 I bought about 60 gold eagles. Only a few of them from dealers -- most over ebay from private sellers. I've had no problem re-selling the eagles to dealers in the last year or two. A gold eagle is a gold eagle. As long as you have a way of verifying that it's not a fake, you should be okay.

To the OP, I'd suggest you meet in the lobby of your bank for the transaction. Then immediately deposit the cash.
How did you do it over ebay? They just mail you the coin?
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

SPG8 wrote:
LH wrote:
111 wrote:I've sold gold to people via craigslist before. I just arranged to meet at my bank so it's a public place with a little extra security. Plus, that way I could immediately deposit the cash & didn't have to be as worried about getting mugged immediately afterward.
Ah, thanks. I was considering in front of police station or at a mall or something, but that makes even more sense.
Right, because the criminal mastermind that would design this particular robbery would never follow you home.

Of course, all the driving tips from the Rockford Files make that moot.
I feel for you at the local atm, and assume you do not have an expensive watch, nor you or your wife have a diamond ring, as being followed home is easy, even with rockford files driving tips I agree : )
Last edited by LH on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by YDNAL »

LH wrote:http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/clt/2895613079.html

Listing off craigs list for an american gold eagle coin.

I have a gold coin tester from http://www.goldcoinbalance.com

Now, he wants 1700 cash, so how does one make the trade, in a public place or something?

I am thinking of waiting maybe another year or so, then maybe buy a single gold coin. This price seems pretty good compared to apmex, which I assume adds in shipping cost as well.

http://www.apmex.com/Category/290/Gold_ ... Prior.aspx

I am assuming this is a standard US american eagle?

Also the local gold coin shop charges spot + 100 dollars for a gold coin, so this would be 100 dollars cheaper.

Any suggestions, thoughts, mechanistic info about a transaction like this would be appreciated.

Thanks,

LH
Effort+Risk/Reward, LH. You want to save $100 (or whatever) at the risk of:
1. Buying a fake coin (possible, you know),
2. Or getting hit on the head with a 2x4, lose $1700 and the coin, and end in the Hospital having to cover health insurance deductibles.

Neither scenario makes sense!
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

YDNAL wrote: Effort+Risk/Reward, LH. You want to save $100 (or whatever) at the risk of:
1. Buying a fake coin (possible, you know),
2. Or getting hit on the head with a 2x4, lose $1700 and the coin, and end in the Hospital having to cover health insurance deductibles.

Neither scenario makes sense!
yeah, I can see that.

I think the gold coin detector, pretty much handles the fake aspect.
1)No fake tungsten coins known to exist
2)US secret service in the case of american eagles
3)gold coin detector easily verifies other fakes as a simple matter of science.
It is possible.

In terms of the hit on head with 2x4, I think meeting at a local bank, pretty well handles that. I mean my wife for instance, walks around with many times the worth of one gold coin on her left hand daily, some gold to boot,gold likely even more than the gold in the one coin I will buy between the watch and ring, and somehow survives on a daily basis so far.....

I mean actually, she walks around daily, displaying 10 times the amount of a single gold coin on her left wrist in all sorts of places. Yet I am supposed to fear a meeting at a bank, at 1/10th the amount, that only one person (or his one gang) knows I have, as I am not openly displaying it? security cameras and such? bank security?

I mean if one looks at it in perspective to simple daily life. I just do not see high relative risk (I think I have sealed my fate if I do buy a gold coin now though hehehheh)

Gold is an interesting thing to talk about : )
Last edited by LH on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by 6miths »

Have to be admit that I would be a bit nervous on this transaction. Back in the days before eBay went all commercial I bought many silver bullion coins and it was just a matter of a mail exchange of a money order or cheque and the coins but at only 10 or 20 ounces at a time it was only one or two hundred dollars, the coins came in mint sealed wrapping strips and at 5 bucks each it really wasn't worth counterfeiting them. Also, the eBay feedback system was quite effective. The benefit was definitely cutting out the middleman and sometimes tax as well. Never had a problem with any transactions. I agree with the problems mentioned above with a single high value item and a local meeting. Craigslist is great for some things but there are definitely concerns. Foremost in my mind is the worry that the item might be stolen (ethics) and the person you might be dealing with is less than reputable (personal safety). I think I would stick with dealing with the bank or other high volume bullion dealer.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by SPG8 »

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Last edited by SPG8 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Watty
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Watty »

LH wrote:
Snowjob wrote:I'm so glad my doomsday plan doesnt involve gold, look at the hassle involved in a single gold coin when times are normal
: )

It is interesting isn't it?
More like bizarre.

Over the years I have probably bought or sold a dozen used cars for cash for at least that amount and sometimes for several times that amount. I usually just met the other person at the bank and I have never had a problem.

Being cautious about getting a fake coin is worth considering but in all likelihood the seller is not selling the coin at a coin shop in order to dodge paying the capital gains taxes that a coin shop paper trail might trigger.

That does bring up the point about how the original poster will document their cost basis to calculate their gain or loss when they eventually sell the coin or if they ever have to file an insurance claim.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by FafnerMorell »

Well, when you ask for advice on the Internet, what's given tends to be extremely cautious/prepare for worst-case/scams, etc - since few folks want to just say "Well, 99 times out of 100, just wing it and you'll be fine" just in case it turns out to be the 1 in 100 time.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by YDNAL »

LH wrote:
YDNAL wrote: Effort+Risk/Reward, LH. You want to save $100 (or whatever) at the risk of:
1. Buying a fake coin (possible, you know),
2. Or getting hit on the head with a 2x4, lose $1700 and the coin, and end in the Hospital having to cover health insurance deductibles.

Neither scenario makes sense!
yeah, I can see that.

I think the gold coin detector, pretty much handles the fake aspect.....

In terms of the hit on head with 2x4, I think meeting at a local bank, pretty well handles that.
See, the analogy to your wife "walking around" with much more gold would apply IF someone is out to get her while she walks around.

In the case of the Craigslist gold trader*, being out to get you is not that far-fetched.

* that just sounds cheesy and underworld ganster-like. :D
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by fareastwarriors »

Arrange to meet in the lobby of the local police station?

Seriously, it seems highly risky.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Lumpr »

Heads up - one popular scam involving physically small but expensive items over the internet:

You meet with the seller in a public place and they produce the item (laptop, diamond ring, gold coin, baseball card, etc.) from some sort of box/case/bag/etc.

You examine the item, determine it is authentic and agree to purchase the item.

You then reach for your wallet/purse/pocket to get your cash (they want you to pay in cash right?).

While your attention is diverted reaching for/counting your cash; they appear to put the item back in the case . . . but it is the old switch-a-roo.

You give them the cash, they hustle out and a few minutes later you are one sad puppy.

I’ve seen undercover videos of this con, and you’d be surprised how adept people can be at pulling this off.

Don’t know if this is what the seller intends, but beware.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by kingair157 »

I agree with going to the bank for the transaction. I have bought and sold hundreds of things via Craigslist. Never a problem.
The seller may not want to pay the commission.
I was in a pawn shop recently, another customer was selling 7 Eagles, the dealer offered him 90% of the spot price for gold on that day. That's a pretty hefty commission if you ask me.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by The Wizard »

I'm just glad there's no SALES TAX on purchases of gold...
Attempted new signature...
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by hazlitt777 »

kingair157 wrote:I agree with going to the bank for the transaction. I have bought and sold hundreds of things via Craigslist. Never a problem.
The seller may not want to pay the commission.
I was in a pawn shop recently, another customer was selling 7 Eagles, the dealer offered him 90% of the spot price for gold on that day. That's a pretty hefty commission if you ask me.
People who are made such poor offers, should show them www.golddealer.com, and if they can't match or come close to their offer, just walk out, go to your local post office, and ship it off to CNI. The shipping and insurance will cost you 35 dollars, more than offset by such a poor offer.

(All you have to do is call them ahead of time, tell them what you will be shipping, and they will lock in their offer right over the phone, based on the spot price while you speak.)
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LH
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

Lumpr wrote:Heads up - one popular scam involving physically small but expensive items over the internet:

You meet with the seller in a public place and they produce the item (laptop, diamond ring, gold coin, baseball card, etc.) from some sort of box/case/bag/etc.

You examine the item, determine it is authentic and agree to purchase the item.

You then reach for your wallet/purse/pocket to get your cash (they want you to pay in cash right?).

While your attention is diverted reaching for/counting your cash; they appear to put the item back in the case . . . but it is the old switch-a-roo.

You give them the cash, they hustle out and a few minutes later you are one sad puppy.

I’ve seen undercover videos of this con, and you’d be surprised how adept people can be at pulling this off.

Don’t know if this is what the seller intends, but beware.
can you post a link to the video?
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by hazlitt777 »

The Wizard wrote:I'm just glad there's no SALES TAX on purchases of gold...
There is none if you buy from out of state. But if I, for example, try to buy in Wisconsin, where I live, then I have to pay tax. It is unfortunate because it hurts local business. Different states may have different laws, but my understanding is that buying out of state is the way to go all around. There may be exceptions.

It's all about watching costs.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by tadamsmar »

nisiprius wrote:I would not do it.

Why isn't this seller selling it at the local coin shop?
I sold a gold coin on Craig's list for my MIL. I did it because the price was better than a coin shop, and a bit better than AMPEX.

An old story, save by cutting out the middle man.

If you weigh and measure the dimensions of the coin then there is very little risk of counterfeit.

We met at a bagel store to make the exchange. (But a bank sounds better)

We used AMPEX to price the coin based on their their buy and sell price.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by DJB »

I've actually sold a gold American Eagle on craigslist. We met in a bank lobby and made the transaction. Nice and public, security nearby.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by prudent »

Selling allows you to control the risk much better. It's a very different situation than buying.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by LH »

thanks for all replies
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Khanmots »

LH wrote:I have a gold coin tester from http://www.goldcoinbalance.com
I'd be hesitant to trust that that tester would ID a coin with a tungsten core (don't have to worry about stamping if you're willing to use significant real gold to "wrap" it so you have something to take the stamp easily). It'd ID lead ones, but tungsten has almost identical density as gold and this would find that problematic to differentiate.

Personally I wouldn't invest in gold, but if I were to I wouldn't take the risk to save a couple bucks.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by TroutMD »

I bought a 2.5 carat diamond off of Craigslist...

I would suggested going for it, but demand to meet at a coin shop. Be there 10 mins early, tell the coin shop owner you are meeting someone where to buy a coin. Tell him you will give him 10-20 bucks to authenicate it to the best of his ability. I am certain he will be happy to.

Thats how I did my diamond. We went to a jewler, they confirmed it, then I walked with the guy to a second place who confirmed it. And then I laid down the money. Got a heck of a deal...
linenfort
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by linenfort »

Khanmots wrote:
LH wrote:I have a gold coin tester from http://www.goldcoinbalance.com
I'd be hesitant to trust that that tester would ID a coin with a tungsten core (don't have to worry about stamping if you're willing to use significant real gold to "wrap" it so you have something to take the stamp easily). It'd ID lead ones, but tungsten has almost identical density as gold and this would find that problematic to differentiate.
Tungsten-core bars have emerged, but tungsten coins? Do they even exist?
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tadamsmar
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by tadamsmar »

Fake tungsten coins are advertised, but I am not sure anyone has managed to buy one:

http://www.silverdoctors.com/sd-reader- ... en-online/

It's kind of odd, maybe they are advertised just to create a buzz, but not sold because it would lead to legal troubles.
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prudent
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by prudent »

TroutMD wrote:I bought a 2.5 carat diamond off of Craigslist...

I would suggested going for it, but demand to meet at a coin shop. Be there 10 mins early, tell the coin shop owner you are meeting someone where to buy a coin. Tell him you will give him 10-20 bucks to authenicate it to the best of his ability. I am certain he will be happy to.Thats how I did my diamond. We went to a jeweler, they confirmed it, then I walked with the guy to a second place who confirmed it. And then I laid down the money. Got a heck of a deal...
Perhaps jewelers are OK with that but I would definitely not show up at a coin shop unannounced and try this. I think there's a better than average chance the shop owner would politely decline to participate both in the authentication and in allowing the shop to be the venue for the sale.
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tadamsmar
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by tadamsmar »

tadamsmar wrote:Fake tungsten coins are advertised, but I am not sure anyone has managed to buy one:

http://www.silverdoctors.com/sd-reader- ... en-online/

It's kind of odd, maybe they are advertised just to create a buzz, but not sold because it would lead to legal troubles.
There are sites that claim that tungsten is too brittle to be used as the core of a stamped coin:

http://www.goldcoinbalance.com/http:/ww ... gold-coins
wesleymouch
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by wesleymouch »

The markups on Canadian maples is usually lower than for Eagles and might rival the markup you are paying
If I were to buy one from an individual I would
#1 check with magnet
#2 Have accurate scale
3. Measure dimensions
You can get measurements and weights from onlygold.com. I guess I would want a significant discount since you are taking risk.
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Re: buying a gold coin from individual

Post by Alex Frakt »

LH,

Why restart a year-old thread without any update or even a mention that whatever happened was completed a year ago?
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