What does a $1M portfolio look like?

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pcm2a
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What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by pcm2a »

I've been thinking lately about when to reallocate funds. For example if you start out with 10 funds at $10k each and they all appreciate to $15k should you reallocate to 15 funds at $10k each? If so do you ever move up to $20k, $50k or $100k in one single fund? Hence my question of what does a $1M portfolio look like
123
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by 123 »

A $1M portfolio is ideally suited to a basic 3 fund portfolio, Total US Stock, Total Bond, and Total International, in whatever proportions match your asset allocation.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Gill »

Nothing magic about a million. It could look just like a $100,000 portfolio or a ten million portfolio.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by randomguy »

pcm2a wrote:I've been thinking lately about when to reallocate funds. For example if you start out with 10 funds at $10k each and they all appreciate to $15k should you reallocate to 15 funds at $10k each? If so do you ever move up to $20k, $50k or $100k in one single fund? Hence my question of what does a $1M portfolio look like
Why would you buy more funds? Having 200k+ in one fund isn't a big deal.
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kenyan
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by kenyan »

Once you get to the realm where fund minimums aren't an issue, there doesn't have to be any real difference. What benefit do you think there is in having more funds? More funds is not the same thing as better diversification.

I'd bet there are people on these forums who have more than $1 million allocated to a single fund.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by fanmail »

kenyan wrote:More funds is not the same thing as better diversification.
I'm guessing that is the issue here.
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fetch5482
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by fetch5482 »

1 million, nothing changes for me.
50 million - I might set aside a part of cash for investment rentals, and invest remaining in the same way as my 100k or 1mm portfolio.
(AGE minus 23%) Bonds | 5% REITs | Balance 80% US (75/25 TSM/SCV) + 20% International (80/20 Developed/Emerging)
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pcm2a
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by pcm2a »

I think "More funds is not the same thing as better diversification." is my issue. For example I sure wouldn't want all of my money in any single Vanguard fund. I tried to select ones that invest in different things with different strategies for a good diversity. How do you achieve better diversity with less funds?
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by cherijoh »

pcm2a wrote:I think "More funds is not the same thing as better diversification." is my issue. For example I sure wouldn't want all of my money in any single Vanguard fund. I tried to select ones that invest in different things with different strategies for a good diversity. How do you achieve better diversity with less funds?
By investing in broadly diversified index funds.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by lack_ey »

pcm2a wrote:I think "More funds is not the same thing as better diversification." is my issue. For example I sure wouldn't want all of my money in any single Vanguard fund. I tried to select ones that invest in different things with different strategies for a good diversity. How do you achieve better diversity with less funds?
What does this really mean? For example, Vanguard has over 45 U.S. stock funds. They all contain a subset of the total market index fund, including some stocks but not others, weighting some more heavily than others compared to the market cap weightings.* Using something else is less diversified, more concentrated in some meaningful way. Combinations of more funds leads to different levels of concentrations in some areas.

In some cases, having more types of (financial) assets doesn't offer a real benefit. If you have more money, do you want to invest in private equity? Orange juice futures? Farmland? Market neutral long/short equity mutual funds? Actually, for some alternatives, many people do like going outside of Vanguard to tap some of these asset classes, but that's not most investors here.

On a practical matter, if you own lots of funds investing in different things and different strategies within a certain category (say all within stocks and/or bonds), your performance in the aggregate is more and more likely to look like the plain index fund as the lumps of concentrations start balancing each other out. I guess the concept is not that far from the central limit theorem in statistics, if you have that background (summing lots of random variables gets you closer to the normal distribution under conditions yadda yadda yadda, many of which can be relaxed in the real world for most practical purposes. warning: I mean this in a very loose way; don't take the analogy too seriously). You end up with a portfolio that looks like the broad indexes, except you're dealing with the higher fund complexity, paying more in fund fees, and losing money inside the funds to transaction costs.

*Let's ignore some trivial amounts of international stocks in some of these, like the active ones. Also that some very small stocks might not be tracked by the total market index yet could be owned by one of the others.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by KlangFool »

pcm2a wrote:I think "More funds is not the same thing as better diversification." is my issue. For example I sure wouldn't want all of my money in any single Vanguard fund. I tried to select ones that invest in different things with different strategies for a good diversity. How do you achieve better diversity with less funds?
pcm2a,

What make you think that more funds mean more diversity?? It does not. If you invest total stock market fund, you are investing on the WHOLE US STOCK MARKET, so how could any combination of US stock funds give you more diversity?

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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by stemikger »

Jack Bogle was asked how many index funds does a person need and his answer was one. A person can do very well holding the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund. I agree. If you feel you need interternational, that may not work, but for me it is fine. This would apply whether you have $10K or one million. More funds does not mean more diversification.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by FrugalInvestor »

You don't need a lot of funds to be well diversified, just a few well diversified funds.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by toto238 »

stemikger wrote:Jack Bogle was asked how many index funds does a person need and his answer was one. A person can do very well holding the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund. I agree. If you feel you need interternational, that may not work, but for me it is fine. This would apply whether you have $10K or one million. More funds does not mean more diversification.
+1. Seriously. If you put 100% into the balanced index fund from cradle to grave, never anything else, you'll do just as well or better than any other plan you see here. It is absolutely fine. You don't really NEED anything but that.

Sure some international stocks may provide some additional diversification. But not having that is not going to hurt your portfolio immensely.

100% into Balanced Index fund for your whole life and you'll be just fine.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by 2b2 »

OP,

Save, read, and invest.
Before you know it, you can tell us what your $1M portfolio looks like.

2b2
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Toons
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Toons »

As others have mentioned VBIAX-Vanguard Balanced Index Admiral :happy
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by inbox788 »

pcm2a wrote:I think "More funds is not the same thing as better diversification." is my issue. For example I sure wouldn't want all of my money in any single Vanguard fund. I tried to select ones that invest in different things with different strategies for a good diversity. How do you achieve better diversity with less funds?
If you're unhappy with just one fund, you can start with VFINX and when that gets too large, add to VFIAX, VOO, and then FUSEX (Fidelity) and SWPPX (Schwab). Now if you want diversity, then turn in all 5 funds into VTSMX, and that's how you achieve "better diversity with less funds". Or you might even go so far as VT.

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by nisiprius »

My own portfolio has gradually grown, yet is has had fewer and fewer mutual funds over time. Not cause and effect, but that's what's happened.

For a small portfolio, say $10,000, fund minimums may limit the number of funds you can invest in, but that does not mean that you keep adding funds as the portfolio grows. Even the relatively sophisticated "slice-and-dice" or "factor-based" portfolios, such as the Coffeehouse portfolio, or the portfolios created by roboadvisors like Wealthfront etc. typically have no more than seven, eight, nine mutual funds.

It's propaganda, but it's good propaganda: Vanguard's Matt Brancato's blog post, The simplicity of a sunset, countering the propaganda that gives the impression that a simple portfolio is somehow insufficiently diversified:
Image
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Wagnerjb »

123 wrote:A $1M portfolio is ideally suited to a basic 3 fund portfolio, Total US Stock, Total Bond, and Total International, in whatever proportions match your asset allocation.
If the individual also has a higher (earned) income, I suspect an intelligent $1 million portfolio looks a lot more tax-managed that a simple one. But it is just as well diversified and low-cost and passive.

Best wishes.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by The Wizard »

It's true that one might generally start out with one or two funds based on the $3K minimum in Vanguard for many of them.
And then when you get above $10K each in total stock and total bond, perhaps you open an account in total international stock.
Then later on, perhaps you put 5% or 10% of your total into the REIT fund.

So as you get up to a few hundred $K or more, you have more opportunity to slice & dice your holdings, if that's what makes sense to you...
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by IPer »

read the wiki
Read the Wiki Wiki !
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artthomp
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by artthomp »

As a retired person, I like the allocation used by the Target Retirement Income Fund for a million dollar portfolio.

Ranking by Percentage Fund Percentage
1 Vanguard Total Bond Market II Index Fund Investor Shares* 39.5%
2 Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Investor Shares 20.6%
3 Vanguard Short-Term Inflation-Protected Securities Index Fund Investor Shares 16.9%
4 Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund Investor Shares 14.1%
5 Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares 8.9%
Total — 100.0%
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

As little as 1 fund or 6 funds if you prefer to slice and dice.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Tamahome »

A $1M portfolio looks like this:

8% Large Dividend
8% 500 index
8% Mid Cap
8% Mid Value
8% Small Cap
8% Small Value

8% Europe
8% Pacific
8% Emerging Markets
8% International Small

10% TIPS
10% Total Bond

Another will be 3 fund.

If you are looking to slice and dice because you feel like you need to get an edge on the 3 fund, you will want to read two books.
The Only Guide to a Winning Investment Strategy You'll Ever Need by Larry Swedroe
All About Asset Allocation by Rick Ferri

They have similar philosophies, but their advice differs a bit on some issues. Find what works best for you. Keep your costs low.
I'm not a financial professional. Post is info only & not legal advice. No attorney-client relationship exists with reader. Scrutinize my ideas as if you spoke with a guy at a bar. I may be wrong.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by ShiftF5 »

123 wrote:A $1M portfolio is ideally suited to a basic 3 fund portfolio, Total US Stock, Total Bond, and Total International, in whatever proportions match your asset allocation.
Well said. $100,000 or $1MM or $10MM The 3 or 4 fund portfolio scales beautifully.

Many years ago I used to think Millionaires must have these elaborate intricate investments.

I've learned (Thank You Bogleheads) that Simplicity is key and IT WORKS very well.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by IPer »

artthomp wrote:As a retired person, I like the allocation used by the Target Retirement Income Fund for a million dollar portfolio.

Ranking by Percentage Fund Percentage
1 Vanguard Total Bond Market II Index Fund Investor Shares* 39.5%
2 Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Investor Shares 20.6%
3 Vanguard Short-Term Inflation-Protected Securities Index Fund Investor Shares 16.9%
4 Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund Investor Shares 14.1%
5 Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares 8.9%
Total — 100.0%
I think it is better suited for the 5 Million Dollar Portfolio!
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Toons »

7940 shares of Apple :happy
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by knpstr »

19120.459 shares of vtsax is how mine would look
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by IPer »

knpstr wrote:19120.459 shares of vtsax is how mine would look
I was offended at first but the more I think about it...
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I have over a million and it's in 3 funds. Total US market, total US bond and total international. Why would I want anything else?
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by sometimesinvestor »

There are a very small number of persons with a 1 million dollar tax sheltered portfolio that's not a Keogh. Therefore a million dollar portfolio is likely to include taxable funds . I can imagine a 6 fund portfolio (2 total stock(one tax sheltered 1 not) , total bond , muni fund and/or perhaps a state muni fund with an international fund also in a taxable account (the foreign tax credit) though I would guess that the number of million dollar portfolios with none of any of TIPS or , Short term bonds . or sector fund (most likely health care utility or real estate) and even a few individual stocks would be small even for people on this site.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Fixmen »

ShiftF5 wrote:
123 wrote: Many years ago I used to think Millionaires must have these elaborate intricate investments.

I've learned (Thank You Bogleheads) that Simplicity is key and IT WORKS very well.
What Vanguard has done with investments is similar to what Coke has done to the soda. Whether you have a $5 or $500 dollars to spend on a soda you still get the same Coke. Money cannot buy you a better Coke. This isn't true in all industries (e.g. cars) and hasn't always been true in the investment industry, but is true today.
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The Three Fund Portfolio

Post by Taylor Larimore »

pcm2a wrote:I've been thinking lately about when to reallocate funds. For example if you start out with 10 funds at $10k each and they all appreciate to $15k should you reallocate to 15 funds at $10k each? If so do you ever move up to $20k, $50k or $100k in one single fund? Hence my question of what does a $1M portfolio look like
pcm2a:

If I had $1M, $5M, $10M or $20M I would probably choose this portfolio with its many advantages:

The Three Fund Portfolio

Best wishes
Taylor
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

sometimesinvestor wrote:There are a very small number of persons with a 1 million dollar tax sheltered portfolio that's not a Keogh. Therefore a million dollar portfolio is likely to include taxable funds . I can imagine a 6 fund portfolio (2 total stock(one tax sheltered 1 not) , total bond , muni fund and/or perhaps a state muni fund with an international fund also in a taxable account (the foreign tax credit) though I would guess that the number of million dollar portfolios with none of any of TIPS or , Short term bonds . or sector fund (most likely health care utility or real estate) and even a few individual stocks would be small even for people on this site.

Note the post above you is a tax advantaged rollover IRA. I happen to use Fidelity but am firmly in the 3 fund camp.

I honestly don't know what a Keogh is.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by abuss368 »

I would have the same exact funds!

Keep investing simple and avoid fund overlap and additional complexity.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by madbrain »

nisiprius wrote: It's propaganda, but it's good propaganda: Vanguard's Matt Brancato's blog post, The simplicity of a sunset, countering the propaganda that gives the impression that a simple portfolio is somehow insufficiently diversified:
Image
It's still insufficiently diversified, IMO - it's missing the entire junk bond asset class, which has a place in my $1M portfolio. But YMMV, obviously.
EDIT: and it's missing muni bonds, too.

OTOH, I don't own international bonds.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Watty »

One difference is that as you get a larger portfolio a better case can be made to buy individual government bonds instead of a bond mutual fund.

If TIPS rates get high again I can picture a scenario where I would buy a ladder to individual TIPS bonds in my retirement account.

With a smaller account all this would be less practical.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by The Wizard »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:I have over a million and it's in 3 funds. Total US market, total US bond and total international. Why would I want anything else?
Did you forget international bond?
Check and see if it's outperforming domestic bond...
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by A-Commoner »

I wish I started out with a 3 fund portfolio. Now I have a collection of about 15 actively managed and index funds (albeit all Vanguard) that would be too expensive to simplify into a 3 fund portfolio, what with the capital gains taxes I would incur selling the active funds in taxable accounts. This collection started in the 1990s as mostly active funds. Then as the 2000s came about, index funds were added and now constitute 60% of the total portfolio. Still the amounts in the active funds are sizable. The Capital Opportunity fund alone has grown to a size enough to pay for a house in cash in suburban Chicago. So, I agree that a $1m portfolio should look no different than a 100K or a $10 million portfolio. But the problem is, my portfolio has grown to a size that simplification to a 3 fund portfolio won't be so simple or cheap.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by beyou »

The only difference between a large and small portfolio, is the benefit of buying a series of Admiral or ETF funds
to reduce expenses. For a small portfolio I would recommend a target date fund, a single portfolio with exceptional
diversification. It's main failing is the higher fees that the average retail investor must pay in these funds (not high,
just higher). With a large balance, you can buy each component of a Target Date fund at lower cost per component,
and have EXACTLY THE SAME diversification regardless of the number of funds on your statement.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by abuss368 »

blevine wrote:The only difference between a large and small portfolio, is the benefit of buying a series of Admiral or ETF funds
to reduce expenses. For a small portfolio I would recommend a target date fund, a single portfolio with exceptional
diversification. It's main failing is the higher fees that the average retail investor must pay in these funds (not high,
just higher). With a large balance, you can buy each component of a Target Date fund at lower cost per component,
and have EXACTLY THE SAME diversification regardless of the number of funds on your statement.
Exactly. Unfortunately the Target funds are not available in Admiral shares. That may be material to large portfolios.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by stemikger »

A-Commoner wrote:I wish I started out with a 3 fund portfolio. Now I have a collection of about 15 actively managed and index funds (albeit all Vanguard) that would be too expensive to simplify into a 3 fund portfolio, what with the capital gains taxes I would incur selling the active funds in taxable accounts. This collection started in the 1990s as mostly active funds. Then as the 2000s came about, index funds were added and now constitute 60% of the total portfolio. Still the amounts in the active funds are sizable. The Capital Opportunity fund alone has grown to a size enough to pay for a house in cash in suburban Chicago. So, I agree that a $1m portfolio should look no different than a 100K or a $10 million portfolio. But the problem is, my portfolio has grown to a size that simplification to a 3 fund portfolio won't be so simple or cheap.
Well, as far as problems go, it's a good one to have. :beer
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stemikger
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by stemikger »

toto238 wrote:
stemikger wrote:Jack Bogle was asked how many index funds does a person need and his answer was one. A person can do very well holding the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund. I agree. If you feel you need interternational, that may not work, but for me it is fine. This would apply whether you have $10K or one million. More funds does not mean more diversification.
+1. Seriously. If you put 100% into the balanced index fund from cradle to grave, never anything else, you'll do just as well or better than any other plan you see here. It is absolutely fine. You don't really NEED anything but that.

Sure some international stocks may provide some additional diversification. But not having that is not going to hurt your portfolio immensely.

100% into Balanced Index fund for your whole life and you'll be just fine.
Yes, this is something that Jack has said numerous times, most recently in an interview with Motley Fool. He has a lot of money in that fund and even puts it in the Balanced Index for his grandchildren who I'm sure are not little kids any longer but adults.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by abuss368 »

Hi stemikger,

You are back on the forum!
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by leonard »

pcm2a wrote:I've been thinking lately about when to reallocate funds. For example if you start out with 10 funds at $10k each and they all appreciate to $15k should you reallocate to 15 funds at $10k each? If so do you ever move up to $20k, $50k or $100k in one single fund? Hence my question of what does a $1M portfolio look like
Asset allocation and the math to implement the asset allocation works at $10k, $100k, $1M, and $10m+.
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by ps56k »

A few years ago I was comparing my various mutual funds - which I thought were diversified -
and started actually looking into their holdings - I just looked at the VG Balanced fund mentioned above... VBIAX
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... IntExt=INT

It became apparent, that even though my fund was a Growth or Value labelled fund -
the first couple of stock holdings were always the same..... Apple, Exxon, etc -

SO - it didn't matter what the fund type was, or their strategy -
they were all holding the same stocks - for different reasons.

Month-end ten largest holdings - VBIAX -
(8.6% of total net assets) as of 02/28/2015
1 Apple Inc.
2 Exxon Mobil Corp.
3 Microsoft Corp.
4 Google Inc.
5 Johnson & Johnson
6 Wells Fargo & Co.
7 Berkshire Hathaway Inc.
8 General Electric Co.
9 Procter & Gamble Co.
10 JPMorgan Chase & Co.
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Cosmo
Posts: 1385
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:46 pm

Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by Cosmo »

123 wrote:A $1M portfolio is ideally suited to a basic 3 fund portfolio, Total US Stock, Total Bond, and Total International, in whatever proportions match your asset allocation.
What he said. ^ And it's easy as 1 2 3. :D In reality, this isn't always possible, especially if there is a his and her 401(k) so it may very well be as many as 10 different funds or more.
Cosmo
jebmke
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by jebmke »

Sounds like you are holding only large-cap blends. What do your international holdings show for top stocks?
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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stemikger
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by stemikger »

abuss368 wrote:Hi stemikger,

You are back on the forum!
Thanks Tony, t was a very slow night at work, I couldn't resist.

Steve
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!
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baw703916
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:10 pm
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Re: What does a $1M portfolio look like?

Post by baw703916 »

Every million dollar portfolio has two commas. ;)
Most of my posts assume no behavioral errors.
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