Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net Worth
Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net Worth
Subject says it all.
What would top financial advisors - and Bogleheads - recommend for maximum income growth combined with reasonable growth in future net worth for 58-year old US investor?
What would reasonable performance of portfolio look like over the next 20 - 30 years?
What would top financial advisors - and Bogleheads - recommend for maximum income growth combined with reasonable growth in future net worth for 58-year old US investor?
What would reasonable performance of portfolio look like over the next 20 - 30 years?
Last edited by kenner on Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
You leave a few key points out - is the net worth liquid now, or illiquid?
What are the income needs of said investor?
What is the current and expected tax rates of the investor?
Come on! You know the drill on Asking Portfolio Questions, why should this exercise be any different? For someone with 1935 posts - the subject heading doesn't say much at all.
What are the income needs of said investor?
What is the current and expected tax rates of the investor?
Come on! You know the drill on Asking Portfolio Questions, why should this exercise be any different? For someone with 1935 posts - the subject heading doesn't say much at all.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Thanks for reply, Grt2bOutdoors. I have always valued your input.Grt2bOutdoors wrote:You leave a few key points out - is the net worth liquid now, or illiquid?
What are the income needs of said investor?
What is the current and expected tax rates of the investor?
Come on! You know the drill on Asking Portfolio Questions, why should this exercise be any different? For someone with 1935 posts - the subject heading doesn't say much at all.
I am asking for thoughts not for myself, but for a friend who recently sold his business, is now worth the above stated amount and who is crying poor-mouth because his business income has vanished.
Net worth is 65% liquid.
Income needs $375K per year.
Top US income tax rate.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
This might or might not turn into a 40 post thread, but regardless there's absolutely no way to give any meaningful advice given the information. There are a dozen questions to ask, which could result in dozens of pieces of advice that together form a reasonable plan. If I posted a question on webMD saying a friend is 65 years old, what medical advice do you have, I'd get a lot of meaningless advice because there's no background data. Your friend has built his wealth so presumably he's smart enough to seek out informed opinions from people who will take the necessary time to understand his full situation.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
The same portfolio that would be appropriate for a 58 yr old investor with 2 million dollars and income needs of 37.5k per year. Its just an extra 0 in my opinion.
30% Total US Stock market
20% Total International
40% Muni Bond Index
10% Cash
That would be a reasonable starting point IMHO. No need to get overly complicated. I would assess risk tolerance; the investor can afford to be very conservative if they wish.
30% Total US Stock market
20% Total International
40% Muni Bond Index
10% Cash
That would be a reasonable starting point IMHO. No need to get overly complicated. I would assess risk tolerance; the investor can afford to be very conservative if they wish.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
With $20M, is there any allocation that would not work? Lifestyle would be the big question.
Go crazy and be 10% stocks, 90% bonds. An $18M bond portfolio should return enough to live on. ($630k @ 3.5%)
Get wild and be 90% stocks and 10% bonds. A $2M bond portfolio would be just fine with me.
Go crazy and be 10% stocks, 90% bonds. An $18M bond portfolio should return enough to live on. ($630k @ 3.5%)
Get wild and be 90% stocks and 10% bonds. A $2M bond portfolio would be just fine with me.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Thanks, BigRed,bigred77 wrote:The same portfolio that would be appropriate for a 58 yr old investor with 2 million dollars and income needs of 37.5k per year. Its just an extra 0 in my opinion.
30% Total US Stock market
20% Total International
40% Muni Bond Index
10% Cash
That would be a reasonable starting point IMHO. No need to get overly complicated. I would assess risk tolerance; the investor can afford to be very conservative if they wish.
That is pretty much what I was thinking. Sincerely appreciate your input.
Any thoughts on an expected average annual percentage total return of such a portfolio over the next 20+years.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
He didn't build his wealth, his extremely eldery father did. He's so unknowledgeable about investing that he could easily lose half his wealth to financial advisors. That's why I'm hoping to assess this the Boglehead's way.MN Finance wrote:This might or might not turn into a 40 post thread, but regardless there's absolutely no way to give any meaningful advice given the information. There are a dozen questions to ask, which could result in dozens of pieces of advice that together form a reasonable plan. If I posted a question on webMD saying a friend is 65 years old, what medical advice do you have, I'd get a lot of meaningless advice because there's no background data.
Your friend has built his wealth so presumably he's smart enough to seek out informed opinions from people who will take the necessary time to understand his full situation.
Last edited by kenner on Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
4-5% nominal. Figure 6-8% for the stocks. 1-3% for the bonds/cash. But 20+ years is a long time. Bonds could definitely bounce back to 5-6% over that time frame.kenner wrote:Thanks, BigRed,bigred77 wrote:The same portfolio that would be appropriate for a 58 yr old investor with 2 million dollars and income needs of 37.5k per year. Its just an extra 0 in my opinion.
30% Total US Stock market
20% Total International
40% Muni Bond Index
10% Cash
That would be a reasonable starting point IMHO. No need to get overly complicated. I would assess risk tolerance; the investor can afford to be very conservative if they wish.
That is pretty much what I was thinking. Sincerely appreciate your input.
Any thoughts on an expected average annual percentage total return of such a portfolio over the next 20+years.
Personally 50/50 is way to conservative for me with that income need. I would go 70/30. You don't need to take that risk but you are more than able to. With 20+ year time frames, sticking money in stocks tends to pay off.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
One last question, $375K net or gross income?
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Gross.Grt2bOutdoors wrote:One last question, $375K net or gross income?
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
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Last edited by HueyLD on Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
I agree, up until we get to the part of cash - 2 years worth of cash + $6.125M in Intermediate Tax Exempt + $1.3M in Total International Stock Index + $3.7M in Total Stock Market Index. All Flagship, of course. You said the key word - "prudent", so no need to worry about shooting out the lights here. That portfolio, re-balanced once per year or using Larry's 5/25 rule should be enough to keep going into his last years and if not, we all have much bigger problems to worry about.bigred77 wrote:The same portfolio that would be appropriate for a 58 yr old investor with 2 million dollars and income needs of 37.5k per year. Its just an extra 0 in my opinion.
30% Total US Stock market
20% Total International
40% Muni Bond Index
10% Cash
That would be a reasonable starting point IMHO. No need to get overly complicated. I would assess risk tolerance; the investor can afford to be very conservative if they wish.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
As I understand, you cannot get sued for giving financial advice, provided you are not charging for it.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Call Vanguard. They would be happy to advise him at no cost and since they don't have expensive funds, there is little chance of being taken to the cleaners.
No need to be aggressive with that much, just a small % of equity to help keep up with inflation.
No need to be aggressive with that much, just a small % of equity to help keep up with inflation.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
I think it would be wise to steer this friend to the new Vanguard Advisory Service which will manage the money for .3% if I understand correctly. That would be a small price to pay to not get fleeced.kenner wrote:He didn't build his wealth, his extremely eldery father did. He's so unknowledgeable about investing that he could easily lose half his wealth to financial advisors. That's why I'm hoping to assess this the Boglehead's way.
While I certainly agree with the idea that a 3 fund type portfolio is perfectly adequate for $20 million, the picture you paint is that this friend is probably not going to be a good money manager. There's probably a reason you are asking the question instead of him asking the question - he doesn't want to learn or thinks he can't do it. Some people just need a financial advisor - it's important that they get the right kind.
Link to Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Addressed elsewhere in this thread.MN Finance wrote:This might or might not turn into a 40 post thread, but regardless there's absolutely no way to give any meaningful advice given the information. There are a dozen questions to ask, which could result in dozens of pieces of advice that together form a reasonable plan.
I'll answer any and all questions as best I can.
If I posted a question on webMD saying a friend is 65 years old, what medical advice do you have, I'd get a lot of meaningless advice because there's no background data.
As someone who has more than "a knodding acquaintance" with the medical field, I'd hope you'd get no advice based on the history you stated. Seems to me that investing principles are somewhat different from the principles governing acceptable medical practice.
Your friend has built his wealth so presumably he's smart enough to seek out informed opinions from people who will take the necessary time to understand his full situation.
Last edited by kenner on Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
I would point your friend to this website and/or to Vanguard or maybe to Rick Ferri and not give any specific advice. Even if he can't legally sue you, he can make a mistake, misinterpret you or even get it all right and have (what he views)) bad results (such as a '73-'74 bear market where stocks AND bonds crashed) and you will be the villain.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Thanks Leesbro63,Leesbro63 wrote:I would point your friend to this website and/or to Vanguard or maybe to Rick Ferri and not give any specific advice. Even if he can't legally sue you, he can make a mistake, misinterpret you or even get it all right and have (what he views)) bad results (such as a '73-'74 bear market where stocks AND bonds crashed) and you will be the villain.
Good points that I will heed.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
I think 65-35 is reasonable, but certainly an educational conversation/tutorial about risk, tolerance, and return would be in order first.
VTI: 45 (1.83% yield)
VXUS: 20 (2.83% yield)
Munis: 35 (VWIUX has 1.63% SEC yield, 3.03% distribution yield). If he's a CA resident, consider VCADX.)
The SEC yield on this portfolio would be about 2% pre-tax ($400,000) and around 1.7% after-tax, or $340,000.
I would also suggest scaling into full investment: perhaps $8 million on Day 1 and then $1 million per month for next 12 months.
At this level of wealth, he is capable of doing some interesting things with other asset classes, notably residential real estate. (i.e. buy a $5 million portfolio of rental properties that have property management, but it may not be worth the additional potential effort/work/limit-on-liquidity. But then again, at a 1.6% yield on munis, the price for being 100% liquid is fairly high.)
VTI: 45 (1.83% yield)
VXUS: 20 (2.83% yield)
Munis: 35 (VWIUX has 1.63% SEC yield, 3.03% distribution yield). If he's a CA resident, consider VCADX.)
The SEC yield on this portfolio would be about 2% pre-tax ($400,000) and around 1.7% after-tax, or $340,000.
I would also suggest scaling into full investment: perhaps $8 million on Day 1 and then $1 million per month for next 12 months.
At this level of wealth, he is capable of doing some interesting things with other asset classes, notably residential real estate. (i.e. buy a $5 million portfolio of rental properties that have property management, but it may not be worth the additional potential effort/work/limit-on-liquidity. But then again, at a 1.6% yield on munis, the price for being 100% liquid is fairly high.)
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Well, he is in great shape, because what he has should easily be able to produce his income needs, plus grow.
If he put $8MM into a bond portfolio that was 10 years or so he could probably generate 2.5% plus on that. So thats 200k of pre-tax income. If the remaining 12MM is invested in stocks with an average yield of 2.25%, that will get him divided income of 270k annually, with the dividend tax preference. The stock side of things is likely to generate more than a 2.25% annual rate of return on average, so figure maybe another 2.5- 3.0% in appreciation over time, on average, which gives him unrealized gains annually of 300-360k, for a total income of 770k, of which 300+ will not be taxed until taken, and then at capital gains rates, and 270 or so will be taxed at the 20% rate.
I think he should be fine. The key is his income needs are low relative to his capital position. That's what makes it easy for him in this market. If he's not comfortable with the equity allocation, he can reduce it and it won't hurt his current income much, but will expose him on a long run basis to erosion from inflation. In the meantime, it would insulate him from market shocks.
If he put $8MM into a bond portfolio that was 10 years or so he could probably generate 2.5% plus on that. So thats 200k of pre-tax income. If the remaining 12MM is invested in stocks with an average yield of 2.25%, that will get him divided income of 270k annually, with the dividend tax preference. The stock side of things is likely to generate more than a 2.25% annual rate of return on average, so figure maybe another 2.5- 3.0% in appreciation over time, on average, which gives him unrealized gains annually of 300-360k, for a total income of 770k, of which 300+ will not be taxed until taken, and then at capital gains rates, and 270 or so will be taxed at the 20% rate.
I think he should be fine. The key is his income needs are low relative to his capital position. That's what makes it easy for him in this market. If he's not comfortable with the equity allocation, he can reduce it and it won't hurt his current income much, but will expose him on a long run basis to erosion from inflation. In the meantime, it would insulate him from market shocks.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
No one read the rest of the thread - the OP's friend has $13 Million in Portfolio Assets, the remainder is illiquid (not accessible for living expenses).Boglegrappler wrote:Well, he is in great shape, because what he has should easily be able to produce his income needs, plus grow.
If he put $8MM into a bond portfolio that was 10 years or so he could probably generate 2.5% plus on that. So thats 200k of pre-tax income. If the remaining 12MM is invested in stocks with an average yield of 2.25%, that will get him divided income of 270k annually, with the dividend tax preference. The stock side of things is likely to generate more than a 2.25% annual rate of return on average, so figure maybe another 2.5- 3.0% in appreciation over time, on average, which gives him unrealized gains annually of 300-360k, for a total income of 770k, of which 300+ will not be taxed until taken, and then at capital gains rates, and 270 or so will be taxed at the 20% rate.
I think he should be fine. The key is his income needs are low relative to his capital position. That's what makes it easy for him in this market. If he's not comfortable with the equity allocation, he can reduce it and it won't hurt his current income much, but will expose him on a long run basis to erosion from inflation. In the meantime, it would insulate him from market shocks.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
So he doesn't understand that wealth does not produce income but can be spent.kenner wrote: I am asking for thoughts not for myself, but for a friend who recently sold his business, is now worth the above stated amount and who is crying poor-mouth because his business income has vanished.
Net worth is 65% liquid.
Income needs $375K per year.
Top US income tax rate.
The ways this can not work are:
1. He tries to spend too much, but $375K gross out of 65% of $20MM (note discussion of MM vs m, etc.) is not too much unless were talking 50 years or something.
2. He doesn't hold enough in stocks, such as 30%-40% or perhaps fails to manage longevity risk by annuitizing some of the income need.
3. He pays out too much of the income in investment expenses. That $375K is about 3% of liquid assets, which is pretty safe as a gross withdrawal, but if he loses 2% to investment expenses, then his net income is only $125K and he still has to finance taxes on $375K. It looks like the biggest single danger is right here. He needs to be sure to get expenses down to negligible, like .2%. So what does it cost to hire an advisor on a $12MM portfolio?
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
OK,
Well,even with only $13 million, if he needs to produce $375K of pretax income, that's only a 2.9% return, which can be accomplished a number of ways. And, if he needs 375K after taxes, and assuming an average effective tax rate of 35%, he'll need to make 4.4% overall. That's a little more challenging, but if he weights more heavily towards equities that should happen over the long run.
I'm not sure if the business is sold why 35% of net worth is illiquid. If its because that is the value of his real estate, it seems to me that that is too much real estate relative to net worth. If you're well off, in retirement, I'd think its necessary to have more than two-three times the value of your houses in investable assets.
Well,even with only $13 million, if he needs to produce $375K of pretax income, that's only a 2.9% return, which can be accomplished a number of ways. And, if he needs 375K after taxes, and assuming an average effective tax rate of 35%, he'll need to make 4.4% overall. That's a little more challenging, but if he weights more heavily towards equities that should happen over the long run.
I'm not sure if the business is sold why 35% of net worth is illiquid. If its because that is the value of his real estate, it seems to me that that is too much real estate relative to net worth. If you're well off, in retirement, I'd think its necessary to have more than two-three times the value of your houses in investable assets.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Boglegrappler wrote:OK,
Well,even with only $13 million, if he needs to produce $375K of pretax income, that's only a 2.9% return, which can be accomplished a number of ways. And, if he needs 375K after taxes, and assuming an average effective tax rate of 35%, he'll need to make 4.4% overall. That's a little more challenging, but if he weights more heavily towards equities that should happen over the long run.
That is a misunderstanding of what was meant. What was meant is that in the face of variable returns 2.9% rate of withdrawal increased by inflation can be safely supported in the worst case. This is obtained from taking return combined with selling assets if needed. In many cases that ends up with lots of excess money in the bank. 4.4% is more dicey. There are significant chances that failure of returns to materialize early on will result in fatal depletion of the portfolio. On the other hand, you can't support a withdrawal of 2.9% real from assets that have no variability because guaranteed real interest rates from instruments such as TIPS are much less than that right now. An option, perhaps not yet but at a little greater age might be an SPIA. There is an issue there in finding one that is inflation indexed. A fixed SPIA at age 58 can still deliver almost 5% but without inflation increases. The needed income can be gotten from part of the assets. These are not recommendations but explanations.
I'm not sure if the business is sold why 35% of net worth is illiquid. If its because that is the value of his real estate, it seems to me that that is too much real estate relative to net worth. If you're well off, in retirement, I'd think its necessary to have more than two-three times the value of your houses in investable assets.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
I'm not sure I'm following some of the parsing here.
If he's 58, he could easily live another 35 years. Plus, at that level of assets, forgive me, but I don't look at things the same way as for most people. Most people are attempting to "ration" their assets over their remaining lifetimes so that they can run out of money the day they die. This guy doesn't have to do that, and can live comfortably off the income from his portfolio, without taking much undue risk, and leave an inheritance for his kids (minus the matching gift program that is the estate tax).
If he follows the investment configuration used by people who are afraid of running out of assets, he'll expose himself to the risk of purchasing power devaluation over time. Annuities and bonds have been bad deals in the past, and they may turn out to be bad deals again. Im more in in favor of at least a 50% equities allocation. At only 58, I think I'd go above that to maybe 70% or so, but he has the "luxury" of being able to shift around between classes and not have a lot of near term effect on his lifestyle.
The comment about investment expense is spot on. Get into a situation where you're paying 2% fees on the whole thing, and you are literally sacrificing more than 50% of what your likely foreseeable returns are going to be. Whatever you do, don't do that.
If he's 58, he could easily live another 35 years. Plus, at that level of assets, forgive me, but I don't look at things the same way as for most people. Most people are attempting to "ration" their assets over their remaining lifetimes so that they can run out of money the day they die. This guy doesn't have to do that, and can live comfortably off the income from his portfolio, without taking much undue risk, and leave an inheritance for his kids (minus the matching gift program that is the estate tax).
If he follows the investment configuration used by people who are afraid of running out of assets, he'll expose himself to the risk of purchasing power devaluation over time. Annuities and bonds have been bad deals in the past, and they may turn out to be bad deals again. Im more in in favor of at least a 50% equities allocation. At only 58, I think I'd go above that to maybe 70% or so, but he has the "luxury" of being able to shift around between classes and not have a lot of near term effect on his lifestyle.
The comment about investment expense is spot on. Get into a situation where you're paying 2% fees on the whole thing, and you are literally sacrificing more than 50% of what your likely foreseeable returns are going to be. Whatever you do, don't do that.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Any asset allocation would work in this situation.
A person can't spend all $20 mm ($12 mm liquid) with $375k in annual withdrawals assuming 2% income from all bonds or all stocks. There would be over $5 mm liquid left even after 35 years assuming no growth, plus the illiquid amount.
0% in stocks to 100% in stocks is the right answer. It depends on how much volatility a person decides to live with and how much he wants to leave to his heirs.
The way to look at this question is a divided asset allocation. What amount and AA is needed for the investor's longevity and what leftover amount and AA is chosen for the heirs? The two are put together to form an overall AA.
Rick Ferri
A person can't spend all $20 mm ($12 mm liquid) with $375k in annual withdrawals assuming 2% income from all bonds or all stocks. There would be over $5 mm liquid left even after 35 years assuming no growth, plus the illiquid amount.
0% in stocks to 100% in stocks is the right answer. It depends on how much volatility a person decides to live with and how much he wants to leave to his heirs.
The way to look at this question is a divided asset allocation. What amount and AA is needed for the investor's longevity and what leftover amount and AA is chosen for the heirs? The two are put together to form an overall AA.
Rick Ferri
The Education of an Index Investor: born in darkness, finds indexing enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Rick, would you agree that this person can (objectively) accept more volatility than most ... so in other words may be more inclined to hold more stocks (more than the needed 0% anyway) even if their bequest motive is not huge, simply because there's no real risk in so doing? ("objectively" meaning that they have the fortitude to avoid panic in downturns, etc., so you wouldn't be recommending a less volatile portfolio for behavioral reasons).Rick Ferri wrote:Any asset allocation would work in this situation.
A person can't spend all $20 mm ($12 mm liquid) with $375k in annual withdrawals assuming 2% income from all bonds or all stocks. There would be over $5 mm liquid left even after 35 years assuming no growth, plus the illiquid amount.
0% in stocks to 100% in stocks is the right answer. It depends on how much volatility a person decides to live with and how much he wants to leave to his heirs.
The way to look at this question is a divided asset allocation. What amount and AA is needed for the investor's longevity and what leftover amount and AA is chosen for the heirs? The two are put together to form an overall AA.
Rick Ferri
Is one reason to feel that way an implicit assumption of some downside flexibility on spending in the worst case? Or would you give the same advice to someone with $2M in net worth ($1.2M liquid) and $37.5K in annual spending needs (where that would be seen as a minimum needed to pay for basic needs)?
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Both assume some restraint in annual spending and perhaps downside flexibility, yet both can splurge once in a while relative to their net worth.
We don't live forever and we can't take it with us!
Rick Ferri
We don't live forever and we can't take it with us!
Rick Ferri
The Education of an Index Investor: born in darkness, finds indexing enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Great suggestion. The extra 0! I love it.bigred77 wrote:The same portfolio that would be appropriate for a 58 yr old investor with 2 million dollars and income needs of 37.5k per year. Its just an extra 0 in my opinion.
30% Total US Stock market
20% Total International
40% Muni Bond Index
10% Cash
That would be a reasonable starting point IMHO. No need to get overly complicated. I would assess risk tolerance; the investor can afford to be very conservative if they wish.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Sorry, I made a miss-statement. At 0% real interest rate TIPS could support a 3.3% withdrawal of real dollars with the portfolio exhausted at the end of thirty years.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
...and:kenner wrote:He didn't build his wealth, his extremely eldery father did. He's so unknowledgeable about investing that he could easily lose half his wealth to financial advisors. That's why I'm hoping to assess this the Boglehead's way.
Ignorance and a big pile of money make a dangerous combination. Your friend needs to educate himself before the financial jackals find him. He can live comfortably on what he has, provided it isn’t purloined by shysters.I am asking for thoughts not for myself, but for a friend who recently sold his business, is now worth the above stated amount and who is crying poor-mouth because his business income has vanished.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
And if he doesn't spend it all on hookers, blow and Italian sports carsRegal 56 wrote:...Ignorance and a big pile of money make a dangerous combination. Your friend needs to educate himself before the financial jackals find him. He can live comfortably on what he has, provided it isn’t purloined by shysters.
Agree with others, refer him to Vanguard or to one of the advisers on this forum.
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Thanks to all who posted.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
I am reminded of the quote from George Best, a British soccer star of the 60's, when it came out that he had burned through the huge amount of money he had made during his career: "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds, and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."Raymond wrote:And if he doesn't spend it all on hookers, blow and Italian sports cars.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Aside from the standard BH advice, I'll throw in the fact that he should incorporate his estate plans into his investment allocation. At $20mm, he is well above the estate tax exemption threshold of ~$10MM (assuming he is married), and a 40% tax on anything above that threshold is more of a fee than any 'reasonable' investment management fees he'll encounter. Specific advise is obviously beyond the scope of this thread, but there are various strategies that can significantly reduce the estate tax burden in the future that need to be executed sooner rather than later, and may require a shift in asset allocation. The prudent strategy is to interview some HNW estate attorneys in the near future and see how their suggestions impact the investment allocation/strategy.
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Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
How true indeed!Rick Ferri wrote: We don't live forever and we can't take it with us!
Rick Ferri
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
The most valuable advice or assistance you can give him is to direct him toward an ethical advisor. Vanguard, Rick Ferri, or others who post here come to mind. Any will work and would help get him invested in a way that makes sense for him. The portfolio suggestions here are all great but even if he starts that way he will become convinced of another course quickly when he talks with another friend or his banker turns him over to their investing department. Best to get him into the hands of someone who can work with him to help him avoid making bad mistakes in the future.
Laura
Laura
The views presented are my own and not necessarily those of the Department of State or the U.S. Government.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
+1Laura wrote:The most valuable advice or assistance you can give him is to direct him toward an ethical advisor. Vanguard, Rick Ferri, or others who post here come to mind. Any will work and would help get him invested in a way that makes sense for him. The portfolio suggestions here are all great but even if he starts that way he will become convinced of another course quickly when he talks with another friend or his banker turns him over to their investing department. Best to get him into the hands of someone who can work with him to help him avoid making bad mistakes in the future.
Laura
A shark will eat him (or a huge bite) eventually. I cannot stress this enough, he needs an ethical fiduciary RIA type as soon as possible. He also needs a CPA tax account(not investments) & good family planning attorney, if he doesn't have those.
As a friend --- best thing you can share is a fact: there is no "magic" in the investments marketplace, there are stocks and bonds, and perhaps real estate. Nothing else. Everything else is a mask or or parsing of those assets, or perhaps mortality credits insurance products. There is no magic whatsoever a retail investor can cost-effectively exploit.
He should realize people will approach him to invest in businesses and products that have very poor risk-reward ratios, if they are not outright fraud or borderline unethical. They will appeal to his ego, he is special or has a "special place" in their "system". He should realize these people will befriend him and may in fact be fun to have a golf games with. The problem is always when you stop evaluating business/investment decisions based on risk-reward & academic based knowledge.
You should also realize that some of the people he will meet are manipulative, and borderline sociopathic with no empathy for others. Some just nice salespeople trying to sell products that may be overpriced and inferior, but are not truly wretched. There will be a spectrum between those two types of salespeople he will likely see. One cannot tell the difference in many cases until is too late, so hire a fiduciary financial advisor.
If you explain the difference between brokers and fiduciaries, and hope he listens, you have been a good friend. In my experience stories of second-generation wealth do not always turn out well. Perhaps more because of behaviors, than investing -- as if you have enough money even crappy products don't kill your lifestyle as they cater to your ego.
Re: Prudent Investment Portfolio for 58-year Old w/20M Net W
Thanks again to all who posted. The knowledge, wisdom and sharing of the members of this forum is appreciated.