Quicken Transaction History

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Topic Author
sdvan
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:52 pm

Quicken Transaction History

Post by sdvan »

I've searched and posted questions on the Quicken blog sites without getting anywhere. So, I'm turning to the wisdom of the bogleheads.

I recently created a Trust. Vanguard required me to create a new account for the Trust and then move all of my holdings into the new account. (Frustrating, as Fidelity simply let me change the name on my existing account). Anyway, the problem this creates is accounting for the prior transaction history for the assets moved into my new Trust account at Vanguard. When I buy/sell in the future in the Trust account, Vanguard will only keep track of my basis/transaction history from the day I moved the money into the new Vanguard Trust account.

So, my question is whether there is a way in Quicken or otherwise to keep the old account transaction history in the new Trust account? I know Quicken will keep the transactions from the old account in the old account. But, that doesn't help me if I'm selling/donating in the new Trust account. For example, let's say I sell a stock in the future or donate some shares to a charity. I'd like to be able to tell Quicken to take those sold/donated shares from a specific lot. But, so far, I can't figure out if that is possible. Vanguard and Quicken seem to just take those shares from the "lot" that was transferred to the new Trust account recently. That doesn't help me as my real basis is in the now old account.

I hate to resort to printing out an old transaction list and keeping track of this by hand.

Any help would be much appreciated!
Longdog
Posts: 2173
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:56 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by Longdog »

Sure. After the assets are transferred to the new account, do one final sync with Vanguard. Then, unlink the current account from Vanguard. Then link it to the new trust account and sync. Then, manually delete the transfer of asset (I.e., delete and add) transactions. Quicken will retain the history, and will treat it as the same account, just linked to a different online account.
Steve
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Crystal Ball
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:30 pm

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by Crystal Ball »

You didn't specify what version on Quicken you are using. I did some experiments in Quicken 2013 Deluxe.
If you downloaded data from Vanguard, it may be useful or not. I don't use Vanguard anymore as I prefer Fidelity's service. After keeping careful note of the contents for the downloaded transactions you can delete them if you wish and do it manually. However, you may be able to get it fixed just by editing the downloaded transactions.
Also, if you have already downloaded from Vanguard, you may see a "Placeholder Transaction" in the new account. You can edit this transaction to provide the basis information for Quicken to track going forward.

Manual Method:
Quicken can do the basis tracking for you. It can either be done using:
1) a Transfer Shares transaction and you select Specify Lots and the destination account
In this case, the specified shares should appear in the destination account with the original purchase date and cost info.
2) Use two separate transactions Shares Removed and Shares Added
In this case, use Remove Shares and the shares simply disappear from the original account. Again, you will have to Specify Lots
Then in the destination account, use Add Shares. The shares will magically appear. In the Edit window, you can enter price, commission, and date from your original purchase to get the correct basis assigned to these shares.
If using this two-transaction method, make sure to add the memo cross-referencing these two transactions.

To check your work, close Quicken. Then reopen it and check each account carefully to make sure the transactions are correct and that your overall share balances are correct.
Do not delete the old account! If the balance is zero, it can be hidden from view using the Account menu.

Caveats: I have no knowledge of the tax status of transferring shares to a trust. If it is not a taxable event and the basis does carry over, either of the two methods should do the job. Pick the one you prefer.
I have used each of these methods and they have worked for me.

Crystal
He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature. | Socrates
Topic Author
sdvan
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by sdvan »

SteveM wrote:Sure. After the assets are transferred to the new account, do one final sync with Vanguard. Then, unlink the current account from Vanguard. Then link it to the new trust account and sync. Then, manually delete the transfer of asset (I.e., delete and add) transactions. Quicken will retain the history, and will treat it as the same account, just linked to a different online account.

Thanks very much for the response. Can you give me a little more detail on this method? Right now, I synced my accounts right before Vanguard made the change. Honestly, I've been a little afraid to sync again. So, you would:

1. Sync again to show the new account and the transfers.
2. Unlink the old account from Vanguard. I assume this means just tell Vanguard not to update the old account?
3. Then, link "it" to the new trust account and sync. This is where I don't totally understand your directions. What am I linking to the new trust account and how do I link them?
4. Manually delete the transfer of assets. Just delete the original transfers done by Vanguard to move everything into the new account?
Topic Author
sdvan
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by sdvan »

Crystal Ball wrote:You didn't specify what version on Quicken you are using. I did some experiments in Quicken 2013 Deluxe.
If you downloaded data from Vanguard, it may be useful or not. I don't use Vanguard anymore as I prefer Fidelity's service. After keeping careful note of the contents for the downloaded transactions you can delete them if you wish and do it manually. However, you may be able to get it fixed just by editing the downloaded transactions.
Also, if you have already downloaded from Vanguard, you may see a "Placeholder Transaction" in the new account. You can edit this transaction to provide the basis information for Quicken to track going forward.

Manual Method:
Quicken can do the basis tracking for you. It can either be done using:
1) a Transfer Shares transaction and you select Specify Lots and the destination account
In this case, the specified shares should appear in the destination account with the original purchase date and cost info.
2) Use two separate transactions Shares Removed and Shares Added
In this case, use Remove Shares and the shares simply disappear from the original account. Again, you will have to Specify Lots
Then in the destination account, use Add Shares. The shares will magically appear. In the Edit window, you can enter price, commission, and date from your original purchase to get the correct basis assigned to these shares.
If using this two-transaction method, make sure to add the memo cross-referencing these two transactions.

To check your work, close Quicken. Then reopen it and check each account carefully to make sure the transactions are correct and that your overall share balances are correct.
Do not delete the old account! If the balance is zero, it can be hidden from view using the Account menu.

Caveats: I have no knowledge of the tax status of transferring shares to a trust. If it is not a taxable event and the basis does carry over, either of the two methods should do the job. Pick the one you prefer.
I have used each of these methods and they have worked for me.

Crystal
Thanks. If I do the transfer shares option, do I do it first before I sync the new account? That seems like a fairly easy option. I have a good back up of the present set up. I'll play around with Quicken and see if I can get it to work. Thanks again.
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Crystal Ball
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:30 pm

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by Crystal Ball »

You should go ahead and run the Quicken update daily (I think this is what you mean by sync). BUT you can review the downloaded transactions without accepting them, which updates your transaction history. With this type of transaction, the way Vanguard downloads it may or may not match your preferred way of handling the records. For example, I just set up a Fidelity Charitable account and transferred appreciated shares. My preference and yours wrt basis tracking will probably be different. My understanding from reading the forum over the years is that different brokers handle the downloads differently. My working method is to download daily and inspect the downloaded transactions until the dust settles. But I don't accept them until I have a quiet Saturday morning to work on it and double-check everything. I sometimes delete (without accepting) the downloaded transaction and manually create one with the information I need. Downloading is handy on checking accounts but not necessarily for brokerage transactions.

Some things to consider:
Using a "transfer" transaction matches the way you think of your transactions. It seems easier. But the transfer straddles two accounts. So you can never delete the other account from Quicken until you are sure that you don't need any transfer information. It's a little neater down the road to have two separate transactions.
If you have a lot of lots, it is easier to do as a transfer. You can select the lots for the shares transferred and the data migrates with them. If you do separate, then you may need a shares in transaction for each lot to track the purchase dates and cost. OTOH, if Vanguard download/Quicken update has created a "placeholder transaction", it is sitting there waiting for you to enter your basis data - I haven't done this is a good while so can't tell you exactly how that works.

In any case, remember that if things get all balled up, you can delete the involved transactions and enter everything manually. I had to do this in a case when a parent's IRA was transferred to the survivor. Automation can not be all things for all people. So I suggest you play a bit. Why not make a copy of your whole database, call it Sandbox. Then you have a place to play at will and see what method you are most comfortable with. My mantra: Life is a series of tradeoffs. A little work now, should pay off in the future with having nice records.

Crystal
He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature. | Socrates
Longdog
Posts: 2173
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:56 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by Longdog »

sdvan wrote:
SteveM wrote:Sure. After the assets are transferred to the new account, do one final sync with Vanguard. Then, unlink the current account from Vanguard. Then link it to the new trust account and sync. Then, manually delete the transfer of asset (I.e., delete and add) transactions. Quicken will retain the history, and will treat it as the same account, just linked to a different online account.

Thanks very much for the response. Can you give me a little more detail on this method? Right now, I synced my accounts right before Vanguard made the change. Honestly, I've been a little afraid to sync again. So, you would:

1. Sync again to show the new account and the transfers.
2. Unlink the old account from Vanguard. I assume this means just tell Vanguard not to update the old account?
3. Then, link "it" to the new trust account and sync. This is where I don't totally understand your directions. What am I linking to the new trust account and how do I link them?
4. Manually delete the transfer of assets. Just delete the original transfers done by Vanguard to move everything into the new account?
First of all, everything is within Quicken - no need to contact Vanguard or go to the Vanguard website.

1. Yes, only if you know there are additional items that haven't yet been sync'd with Quicken.
2. From within Quicken, go into "Edit Account Details" for the account in question, then go to the Online Services tab, and click Deactivate.
3. Once the account was deactivated within Quicken, go again to the Online Services tab (really, you never have to leave it) and activate the account, following the instructions presented. When presented the list of accounts, select the new trust account, and link the Quicken account to that account.
4. This is really just a housekeeping step, to unclutter your account register. You should have an equal number of "Remove" and "Add" transactions that cancel each other out. You can keep them if you want, or you can delete each pair.
Steve
Topic Author
sdvan
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by sdvan »

I want to thank the bogelheads for helping me solve this problem. I should have asked here first.

What I ended up doing (for the benefit of anyone searching this issue in the future) was to simply transfer the shares from my old joint account into my new Trust account. I clicked the box that said to include specific lots. It was as simple as that. When I synced with Vanguard, Vanguard added its own transfer transactions and I simply deleted the Vanguard transactions.

Very simple and very easy to do. Thank you again. I even double checked that a later transaction in the Trust account came through correctly and all seems perfect.

The only problem this creates for me is a dilemma. :happy I didn't know this trick back when Vanguard changed my shares in a few funds from investor to admiral. As a result, I've had years of not having the true basis for the admiral shares in Quicken when I sell any of the admiral shares. I suspect that the fact that we aren't talking about exactly the same thing could be a problem if I tried the transfer trick. Any thoughts on how to manually insert (or transfer if that would work) investor shares transactions in the admiral shares history? I recognize this is a different topic and can start a new thread if folks think that is better.

Thanks again.
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TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17100
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Quicken Transaction History

Post by TomatoTomahto »

I think this will do it:
How do I enter a share class conversion for a mutual fund?
Updated: 1/14/2014 | Article ID: GEN82564

Open the account you want to use.
Click Enter Transactions.
In the Enter Transaction list, select Mutual Fund Conversion.
Complete the form using the following information:
Existing Fund - enter your original share class.
New Mutual Fund - enter your new share class.
Shares in new Fund per held share - enter the number of new share class shares received for each original share class share. If you're unsure of the number to enter here, contact your mutual fund company or broker for the correct number to enter.
Price per share of new Mutual Fund - enter the closing price of the new share class on the date of conversion.
Click Enter/Done.
Always do a backup and, if the thing doesn't work, recover and try something else. I think the above is what i did.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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