Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

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kajol922
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:14 am

Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Been lurking on this site daily for the last 5 years and have learned so much for you all and reading everything I can get my hands on! I realize this is a SUPER long post, so thank you in advance for reading and your help! We certainly appreciate it!

For some background - I have completed Ob/Gyn residency and have started full-time academic practice. My salary is now 220k. I work for a government entity so am participating in the OPERS plan. My husband started urology residency (6 yrs) this year as well. His salary will go from a 20k stipend school to 50k.

Because of the increase in income, new jobs, moving states, and a new calendar year, etc we figured it was a good time to get a "check-up" on our current investment strategy and make sure that we are moving forward in the smartest way possible.

Emergency funds: Three months of expenses
Debt:
--100k @ 6.8% in student loans - paid off as of 6/13 through a generous gift from my parents
--300k mortgage on our home @ 3.5% (we had put 50k as a down payment)
--15k for car #1 @ 0.9%
--20k for car #2 @ 0.9%
--5k for furniture @ 0.0%
--credit cards, etc - none
Tax Filing Status: Married Filing Jointly
Tax Rate: 33% Federal 4% State
State of Residence: OH
Age: 28 (me) 30 (husband)
Desired Asset allocation: 70% stocks / 30% bonds.

Yes, I realize the asset allocation is a bit conservative for our age. However, we have both put a lot of thought into this and are fairly risk-averse people and this helps us sleep best at night. We figure with a dual-physician income, we can afford to be a little conservative and still have a comfortable retirement.

Total portfolio - $84k (not including emergency fund or short-term savings)

Current retirement assets

Her Roth IRA at Vanguard
9% Vanguard Total Bond Market Index (VBMFX) (ER = 0.22)
4% Vanguard Inflation-Protected Sec Inv(VIPSX) (ER = 0.20)
4% Vanguard REIT Index (VGSIX) (ER = 0.24)
6% Vanguard Total Stock Market Index (VTSMX) (ER = 0.18)
8% Vanguard Total International Stock Index (VGTSX) (ER = 0.22)

His Roth IRA at Fidelity
15% Spartan US Bond Investor Index (FBIDX) (ER = 0.22)
16% Spartan Total Market Index (FSTMX) (ER = 0.06)

Her 457B (roll-over from residency 401K) at Ohio Deferred Compensation
18% Vanguard Total Bond Market Index (VBMFX) (ER = 0.22)

Her 457B (new investment) at Ohio Deferred Compensation
1% Vanguard Total International Stock Index (VGTSX) (ER = 0.22)

Her OPERS (mandatory payroll deduction of a fixed amount)
12% set in the OPERS total stock market index (no symbol) (ER = 0.03)

His 403b at Fidelity
3% Vanguard Total International Stock Index (VGTSX) (ER = 0.22)

Taxable at Vanguard
4% Vanguard Emerging Markets Stock Index (VEIEX)(ticker symbol) (ER 0.33)

New annual Contributions
Max to (backdoor? - see below) Roths
Max to 403b/457
Current savings rate of 57%

Insurance:
Home/Auto/Umbrella (1M)
Disability - I have a personal policy. Husband has a policy through residency
GVUL - through my employer. 250k coverage.


Questions:
1. Overall portfolio -
Our goal is 25% total bond index, 4% TIPS, 1% REIT, 45% stock, 20% international, 5% emerging. We have some asset allocation work to do to meet this, but we have just increased our 403b/457 amounts to the maximum starting 1/1/14. We waited for the latter half of last year to get a better sense of our new expenses, budget, etc before we went full speed ahead. Since both 403b/457s are geared towards stocks and not bonds, this will help automatically correct our overweight towards bonds currently.

However, any thoughts on this allocation, fund choices, overall portfolio would be much appreciated!!

2. Backdoor Roth -
Given that this is a transition year with new jobs, I am going to wait to get our W-2s before we contribute to our Roths for FY2013. My calculation is that we will be below the income limit this year of $173,000 for a full contribution. But I wanted to wait and have the final numbers in my hand before I contributed the traditional way. If the W-2 is larger than I calculated, I will open tIRAs for both of us and then convert. I should be able to do this either way up until the April 2014 cutoff for FY13 right?

3. Debt payoff -
Would you recommend paying off the mortgage @ 3.5% early? We save 57% of our monthly income (including max Roth, 457/403B, etc), so feel we would be able to pay off our mortgage early if desired quite easily. However, we are unsure whether that money would be better served in our investment portfolio in a taxable account. We were going to hold out on paying more than the monthly payments for the 2 cars given the 0.9% interest rate. The furniture was bought at 0.0% interest for 12 months, so of course, we will pay that off before the interest escalates.

4. Umbrella Insurance
We have medical, dental, vision, home, car x 2 insurance, and an umbrella policy for 1 million. Do we need more umbrella coverage? If so, how much?

5. Disability Insurance
I have personal policy bought after the help of this forum/whitecoatinvestor (thanks!). My husband's is the standard housestaff policy through his hospital. We were going to hold on purchasing disability insurance for my husband for 2 years (when we are planning on having a child) because we can survive on my disability income + his income if something happens to me OR my income alone if something happens to him. Thoughts?

6. Life Insurance
Again, was going to hold off purchasing life insurance for both of us for 2 years until a child comes into the picture. Thoughts?

7. Tax efficiency
Any thoughts on improving this? We are going to start having money to add to our taxable accounts and I am going to keep taxable accounts in equities for maximum tax efficiency. Any other tax-saving vehicles other than those (Roth, 457, 403b) we are already using that way may be eligible for?

Thanks for reading! And thank you SO much for your help!
Laura
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by Laura »

Things look very good but I do have a few questions.

Is the rollover 457b held separately from the new 457b? You have it shown that way but is there a reason?

I would be tempted to move your husband's roth from Fidelity to Vanguard. You can reach higher levels of service more rapidly by holding your assets together at Vanguard. The same goes for his 403b at Fidelity. You are also going to end up with a ton of different accounts to be tracking if you keep going like this. If these accounts are no longer active you may want to go ahead and convert them to the roth despite your high income bracket just to minimize the number of accounts you need to track for the next 60 years. Simplicity has a value to me.

Holding 1% of REITs probably isn't worth it. Even if it has a fabulous year and gains 100% it really won't make much difference in your total return because it will represent such a small amount of your portfolio. Anything under 10% of the total probably isn't worth it.

I too added emerging markets to a taxable account several years ago. Looking back I wish I hadn't. I would just switch that now to Total Intl Stock Market and leave it alone. It is a pain to track a separate emerging markets holding year after year. In taxable, rebalancing is much more difficult because you can't just move money from account to account. I would stick to Total Market type funds in your taxable account even though you will be adding large sums to the taxable accounts quickly.

I wouldn't pay off the mortgage early given the low cost and the fact that you may not stay in that area permanently. For now I would build up your investment portfolio. In a few years you will be focusing on things like education funding for kids in addition to retirement funding so take advantage of that now.

Holding off on life insurance makes sense as does holding off on his disability insurance until he actually has much more income to protect. Umbrella is probably sufficient for now.

You are in great shape and on the right path. I suspect that you will have a much stronger financial position than most of your colleagues.

Laura
The views presented are my own and not necessarily those of the Department of State or the U.S. Government.
medt
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by medt »

I think you have a good plan altogether. I agree with Laura's suggestions regarding REITs and Emerging Market.

I also don't see any reason for 4% TIPS. I would go 10-15% and 20-15% TBM.

I would not keep any bonds, just equities in Roth IRAs as it is account you will tap the last and without any tax consequences. Let it grow. Keep bonds in 403b.

I would not pay off mortgage in your situation.

1 million umbrella is Ok for now, but I would increase it to $2 mil after your husband finishes residency. Also wait for his disability and life insurance after residency is over or children in picture.

Other options for tax deferred accounts are 529 accounts and HSA if you choose high deductible health insurance plan. Don't forget cafeteria plans as well. And maybe Munis if giving a good yield.

You are doing great. Stay the course.
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ram
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by ram »

- You are doing great.
- No need for the 1% REITS
-I do not like TIPS for young people. Others here may disagree with me.
-Emerging markets- I over weigh them but haven't found it very useful. Things may change.
- Umbrella. OK for now. Increase it later. I keep it at 1.5 times my net worth.
Ram
Topic Author
kajol922
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Thanks everyone for your responses and help!

To answer some questions:

1.) Rollover 457b is in a separate account than new 457B but the log-in, etc is the same. The company (Ohio Deferred Compensation) said that was their policy. Unsure why, but given I only need one log-in and can see both accounts, I figure it doesn't really matter.

2.) Re: moving accounts to Vanguard. Having all our money in one place makes us a bit nervous. I know its silly and Vanguard is solid, but hey, diversification can't hurt, right? Our plan was to have all that was "mine" at Vanguard, all that was "his" at Fidelity, and taxable at Vanguard. Unfortunately, working for the government has added an extra layer of complexity in our plan with OPERS plus Ohio Deferred Comp as the required choices. For now, logging into 4 accounts is manageable, if we add to the pile, though, I think we will have to take your advice and consolidate. Thank you!

3.) Seems like there is consensus re: eliminating REITs/Emerging markets and perhaps moving towards a 4-fund portfolio with TIPS being at least 10%. So 20% total bond index, 10% TIPS, 45% stock, and 25% international. Does that seem reasonable?

4.) Thanks for the advice re: holding onto the mortgage, waiting for his disability, our life insurance, and increasing umbrella later.

5.) Tax efficiency: Bonds in 403bs/457s, Equities in Roth IRAs, and Equities in taxable? Did I understand that correctly? If so, will I have to worry about any taxes as I shift things around? Is there a proper way to do this, or just do it all at once?

6.) Tax deferred. Thanks for the suggestions. I have to wait for a 529 until we have kids, right? Or can I start one now in anticipation? My husband is lucky enough that his/my/our future kids health/dental/vision insurance is totally free through his hospital. So an HSA wouldn't make sense for us. Finally, I am not sure I completely understand what a cafeteria plan is, but I think its the benefits package at work. If so, I can increase my life insurance pre-tax instead of just taking the bare minimum which is free right now - but is that worth the expense now, or should I wait until children come into the picture? And is a work plan or an individual plan better? We have an FSA which is pretty low balance given we are two (thankfully) healthy people without large foreseeable medical expenses. But I may be missing something that is included in a cafeteria plan. . .Will have to look into munis after FY2014 (1st full year at this salary, maxing out other tax-deferred spaces, etc). Thanks for the pointer!

Thanks again!
Topic Author
kajol922
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Just wanted to make sure I understood everyone's feedback correctly:

1.) New asset allocation: 20% total bond index, 10% TIPS, 45% stock, and 25% international. Does that seem reasonable?

2.) Tax efficiency: Bonds in 403bs/457s, Equities in Roth IRAs, and Equities in taxable? Did I understand that correctly? If so, will I have to worry about any taxes as I shift things around? Is there a proper way to do this, or just do it all at once?

3.)Tax deferred. Thanks for the suggestions. I have to wait for a 529 until we have kids, right? Or can I start one now in anticipation? My husband is lucky enough that his/my/our future kids health/dental/vision insurance is totally free through his hospital. So an HSA wouldn't make sense for us. Finally, I am not sure I completely understand what a cafeteria plan is, but I think its the benefits package at work. If so, I can increase my life insurance pre-tax instead of just taking the bare minimum which is free right now - but is that worth the expense now, or should I wait until children come into the picture? And is a work plan or an individual plan better? We have an FSA which is pretty low balance given we are two (thankfully) healthy people without large foreseeable medical expenses. But I may be missing something that is included in a cafeteria plan. . .Will have to look into munis after FY2014 (1st full year at this salary, maxing out other tax-deferred spaces, etc). Thanks for the pointer!


Thanks again for all your help!
buckstar
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by buckstar »

You can start contributing to a 529 plan in your name now, and when you have a child you simply transfer the beneficiary to his/her SSN.
letsgobobby
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by letsgobobby »

HSA especially makes sense for you since your health care is free.
Topic Author
kajol922
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Thanks for the info re: 529s.

I was under the belief that HSAs can only be used if you have a high-deductible health plan (which we do not). We pay no premium for our health/dental/vision insurance, no copay/fees for preventative services, $35 copay for specialists, approx $20/month in prescriptions, approx $400/year in contacts/glasses between the two of us, and will pay only $50 total for all maternity care (when that happens). Not sure if our plan qualifies, but if I am mistaken, I would love to learn more!

Also, I am very interested in switching to this new allocation in a tax-efficient manner as suggested (Bonds in 403bs/457s, Equities in Roth IRAs, and Equities in taxable). Do I just do it in 1 fell swoop? Or is there a manner to do it that is smart, tax-friendly, etc?

Thanks!
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jimb_fromATL
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by jimb_fromATL »

kajol922 wrote: Emergency funds: Three months of expenses


IMO that's not enough. In this economy, no job is really safe, including health care and public safety. I'd want at least 6 months to a year in relatively liquid assets.
3. Debt payoff -
Would you recommend paying off the mortgage @ 3.5% early? We save 57% of our monthly income (including max Roth, 457/403B, etc), so feel we would be able to pay off our mortgage early if desired quite easily. However, we are unsure whether that money would be better served in our investment portfolio in a taxable account.
In the end it doesn't matter wheher increases in your net worth come from earning it in investments, or from avoiding paying it out as interest on debts.

So ... assuming you're maxing all your tax-deferred and tax-advantage opportunities for investing, and since your other debts are such low rates ... you can't beat the equivalent return for paying down the mortgage as part of your long term plan. The equivalent rate of return is better than the mortgage rate itself, and it is absolutely guaranteed with no risk to the principal. And it's better than you can get in any other vehicle that is guaranteed. For example:
  • If you owe $300,000 at 3.5% with perhaps 324 months (27. years) left, the payment for P&I is about $1433 per month. With top tax brackets of 33% federal and 4.% state, paying $500 per month extra will pay it off in 207. months. It gives you exactly the same net result as investing the $500 in a series of CDs or a money market account that give you a guaranteed average annual rate return of 5.503% for 207. months, which would be just enough to pay the taxes and pay off the mortgage at the same point in time. Or it would be equivalent to an after-tax account earning a guaranteed average APY of 4.148% after paying tax on dividends yearly with 15% fed caps gain tax and 4.% state income tax on the yearly earnings and the long-term gain in value.
The main drawback is that it the money is really tied up. You could think of it as somewhat like a series of CDs that have a much higher than normal yield, but which cannot be touched without a huge hassle and cost until they mature. So it's vital to have plenty of other savings and investments to fall back on to insure that you'll always be able to make the payments even if you suffer a inancial set-back like a job loss -- before you tie up extra money in the house.

Since paying down the mortgage IS a guaranteed return in the long run, you could also consider the extra amount you put into that as part of your stable value no-risk investment allocation, and put more of your retirement funds into more risky but potentially higher return equities. And since you'd essentialy be investing in real estate, but it's something that has no risk and is completely under your control, you could drop the REIT.

Incidentally, in case of a [shudder] lawsuit and/or judgment, your home and your retirement accounts are usually protected. All the more reason to max all retirement accounts and pay off the house instead of having too much in liquid assets -- other than your emergency funds.

jimb
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jimb_fromATL
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by jimb_fromATL »

Laura wrote: I wouldn't pay off the mortgage early given the low cost and the fact that you may not stay in that area permanently. For now I would build up your investment portfolio.
Laura
Definitely max the tax-avantaged retirement investment opportunities first.

The fact that they may be moving is not a problem. It is increasing their net worth in the form of reducing their debt liability. And even at that low rate, paying down the mortgage still gives them an absolutely guranteed rate of return comparable to CDs or a money-market account that would have to be paying around 5.5% ... or an after-tax investment giving a guaranteed rate of better than 4%.

jimb
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kajol922
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Thanks for the info re: paying off mortgage earlier. I'll have to look into it further and think through the tax implications

Would love to get an answer on how to change asset allocations and where each component is held. To recap, it was suggested I do Bonds in 403bs/457s, Equities in Roth IRAs, and Equities in taxable. Do I just do it in 1 fell swoop? Or is there a manner to do it that is smart, tax-friendly, etc?

Thanks!
letsgobobby
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by letsgobobby »

kajol922 wrote:Thanks for the info re: paying off mortgage earlier. I'll have to look into it further and think through the tax implications

Would love to get an answer on how to change asset allocations and where each component is held. To recap, it was suggested I do Bonds in 403bs/457s, Equities in Roth IRAs, and Equities in taxable. Do I just do it in 1 fell swoop? Or is there a manner to do it that is smart, tax-friendly, etc?

Thanks!
That's exactly what I have. No reason to wait - do it now.

re: the HSA - if you do not have a HDHP then you are not eligible for an HSA. However if you have an HDHP, you're a good candidate for the HSA because you don't actually have to pay a lot for your health care, and you get to avoid both payroll and income taxes on contributions.

When I was a resident we had something similar. All health care received at UCLA was free. Perfect set up for an HSA.
mrod245
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by mrod245 »

Regarding your husband in residency, make sure you get disability insurance while he is still a resident and/or fellow, you can delay it now since he is starting, but most disability insurance companies offer bigger discounts to a trainee compared to when he is an attending.
Topic Author
kajol922
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Great - thanks everyone! Really appreciate all the wisdom :)
Topic Author
kajol922
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Thanks everyone for your help!

A new wrinkle - my hospital now has partnered with our local VA for gynecology services (influx of female Veterans needing care) and thus, I will be spending some time at the VA. I will officially be a part-time VA employee but still a full-time county hospital employee (though my salary will be prorated so my current employer's contribution into OPERs will decrease).

I have run the numbers in terms of OPERS vs OPERS + FERS and should come out slightly ahead.

My question is in regards to the TSP program for federal employees. Can I still contribute the max of 17,500 to my current employer's 457b (no match) and the TSP would be in addition? Or do I have to reduce my current contributions to the 457b to total 17,5k between both?

Thank you so much!
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Duckie
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by Duckie »

kajol922 wrote:Can I still contribute the max of 17,500 to my current employer's 457b (no match) and the TSP would be in addition? Or do I have to reduce my current contributions to the 457b to total 17,5k between both?
It is my understanding that the 401k / 403b / TSP plans are all "qualified" plans and share the $17.5K max total employee contribution among all three of them. However, since the 457b plan is not a "qualified" plan its contributions are in addition. So with both a 457b and a TSP you can contribute up to $17.5K to each totaling $35K. Put as much as you can into the TSP.
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kajol922
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by kajol922 »

Thank you! Will do!
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PoeticalDeportment
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by PoeticalDeportment »

Your husband should definitely get long term disability insurance while he is still a resident (sooner the better). Between now, and when he finishes residency, he may no longer be insurable. The usual course is to get a small policy with a future increase option that is based on proof of higher future income alone (does not require additional medical underwriting). He is only one needle stick away from not being insurable - and how often do surgeons get needle sticks? For those outside of medicine I will also provide the answer: ALL THE TIME

Don't be cheap when buying an umbrella policy. You aren't just protecting your assets. You are protecting your future earnings - and as a dual physician couple, you have a lot to lose. I think you should have at least $3M of umbrella, maybe more. This will probably only cost you a couple hundred extra dollars per year. Don't get cheap in this area.

Buy the term life insurance before conception, not just "when a child comes into the picture."

Stick to TSM/TISM in taxable. Use your Roth IRAs for whatever tilt your need-to-tinker desires (REIT or emerging markets).

A pet peeve of mine: car loans at 0.9% or 0% or whatever is low enough to make people feel like they have a "good" loan. If you are paying less than market rate for borrowed money, the only logical conclusion is - you guessed it, you paid too much for the car. A car salesman is fine giving you a good price on a car, if (s)he can gouge you on the loan. Conversely, they are fine giving you a great rate on a loan, if they can get you to overpay for the car. They will always get their pound of flesh, however, complexity (car price + loan) generally favors the seller. Simplicity generally favors the buyer.
placeholder
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by placeholder »

PoeticalDeportment wrote:A pet peeve of mine: car loans at 0.9% or 0% or whatever is low enough to make people feel like they have a "good" loan. If you are paying less than market rate for borrowed money, the only logical conclusion is - you guessed it, you paid too much for the car.
That's not necessarily true as sometimes the programs are from the manufacturer and doesn't come out what the dealer gets for the car so people have reported getting the loans after reaching a price on the car.
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ogd
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Re: Attending/Resident Physician Couple - Porfolio Review

Post by ogd »

Excellent advice above, but I too would not pay down a 3.5% mortgage.
jimb_fromATL wrote:The fact that they may be moving is not a problem. It is increasing their net worth in the form of reducing their debt liability. And even at that low rate, paying down the mortgage still gives them an absolutely guranteed rate of return comparable to CDs or a money-market account that would have to be paying around 5.5% ... or an after-tax investment giving a guaranteed rate of better than 4%.
I think the tax math is wrong here. The mortgage does come with a deduction. So if I look at the marginal dollar of payment, a 30 year taxable bond at 3.5% pays for the interest saved on that bit of principal, the income tax on the bond cancelled out by the mortgage tax deduction.

Present 30 year Treasury yields are 3%, and after adding state tax into the picture we're not that far from 3.5%. It's true that further payments will reduce the term and move down the yield curve, but the yield curve will in time move too and the 3% yield might easily make it to the 20 year maturity range as well. (complex argument)

Keeping the mortgage, on the other hand, is very flexible: you can refinance if rates go down, pocketing the gain on the bond in the above comparison. More importantly, if you run into problems you can sell the bond to make your monthly mortgage payment, whereas past overpayments won't save you from defaulting on future ones.

Above 4% I might go either way. But 3.5% is for now a keeper.
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