Vanguard funds in different places

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Vanguard funds in different places

Postby Big Worm » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:23 pm

So I have a Roth IRA with Vanguard invested pretty conservatively. I’m 43 and everything is in the 2030 fund that automatically adjusts over time.

I have some other retirement funds from a previous employer that are administered by a company called “Transamerica Retirement Solutions”. Funds are before tax dollars. Funds are in PIMCO 2030 and Amer FDS Income. The PIMCO performance has been OK this year and the Amer FDS performance has been dismal this year. However, I am not so much concerned with performance as I am with fund expenses (which are too high for my liking). I thought about rolling these funds into my preexisiting Vanguard traditional IRA but probably won’t do this since I would lose my ability to do a backdoor into my Roth IRA.

Transamerica actually has a few Vanguard funds:
-Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Signal (VBTSX)
-Vanguard Value Index Signal (VVISX)
-Vanguard Institutional Index I (VINIX)
-Vanguard Growth Index Signal (VIGSX)
-Vanguard Midcap Value Index Inv (VMVIX)
-Vanguard Selected Value IDx Inv (VASVX)
-Vanguard Mid Cap Index Signal (VMISX)
-Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Index Inv (VMGIX)
-Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Inv (VISVX)
-Vanguard Small Cap Index Signal (VSISX)
-Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index Inv (VISGX)
-Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Signal (VTSGX)

The only one of the above funds I could find on the Vanguard site was VASVX!

I guess I didn’t realize that Vanguard has funds other than the ones that are on their own website. The VASVX expenses on the Vanguard site and the Transamerica site are identical so I guess they are the same exact cost. I am sure Vanguard likes the business from the “outside” but I am not sure how Transamerica benefits from this one.

My question is if there is any difference between investing in Vanguard funds through Vanguard itself or investing in Vanguard through another site (Transamerica in this case)?

Does anyone have any suggestions on investing in the above funds and the mix? I don’t really like switching investments around much but would be willing to rebalance every five years or so. I am 43 and if I am lucky I will retire in 20 years or so.

I have about $125,000 to invest. TIA.
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Re: Vanguard funds in different places

Postby Jim180 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:29 pm

Those Vanguard Funds you can't seem to find are institutional shares. Those are available through Transamerica, but you cannot purchase them yourself. The advantage of those funds are that the expenses are even lower than you could get through Vanguard. (Assuming that Transamerica doesn't charge you any extra fees.) What to invest in depends on your risk tolorance. You could choose among the following:

Vanguard Institutional Index-( Invests in S&P 500 )
Mid-cap Index Signal
SmallCap Index signal
Intl Stock Signal
Total Bond Market Signal

The percentage in each depends on your risk tolorance.
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Re: Vanguard funds in different places

Postby FinancialDave » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:41 pm

I would check the expense ratios very closely (and the yearly results) on the Transamerica site and compare to Vanguard over the exact same dates.

I don't know what company had a 401k with Vanguard funds but when I was reviewing it online they were adding over .5% to the expenses above what Vanguard would charge, which I think was .07% or .1%.

fd
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Re: Vanguard funds in different places

Postby Big Worm » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:51 pm

FinancialDave wrote:I would check the expense ratios very closely (and the yearly results) on the Transamerica site and compare to Vanguard over the exact same dates.

I don't know what company had a 401k with Vanguard funds but when I was reviewing it online they were adding over .5% to the expenses above what Vanguard would charge, which I think was .07% or .1%.

fd



The only problem is that I can only find one of thefunds on the Vanguard site.
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Re: Vanguard funds in different places

Postby ResearchMed » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:53 pm

Big Worm wrote:I guess I didn’t realize that Vanguard has funds other than the ones that are on their own website. The VASVX expenses on the Vanguard site and the Transamerica site are identical so I guess they are the same exact cost. I am sure Vanguard likes the business from the “outside” but I am not sure how Transamerica benefits from this one.

My question is if there is any difference between investing in Vanguard funds through Vanguard itself or investing in Vanguard through another site (Transamerica in this case)?

Does anyone have any suggestions on investing in the above funds and the mix? I don’t really like switching investments around much but would be willing to rebalance every five years or so. I am 43 and if I am lucky I will retire in 20 years or so.

I have about $125,000 to invest. TIA.


Go to the main Vanguard site (Vanguard.com) and click on "INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS" and "go to the site" (not personal investors).
Then click on "VIEW ALL INVESTMENTS".
And then, go to the bottom and click "SHOW ALL PRODUCTS" (yup, a bit redundant).

You will then see ALL of the different "classes" for each fund.
Some are only available in one or two classes; others in quite a few.

You can click on the exact symbol that you want.
If there is an Investor or Admiral class, then you could invest in it outside your company's program.
Their institutional and signal classes, etc., have lower ER's, so having access to those is good.

WHY Vanguard makes it so difficult to find this information isn't clear, especially as many "personal investors" have these other classes in their 401k/403b accounts.
(We regularly use this chart, and actually had a complaint FROM Vanguard that we "should" be using the "personal investor" page. How helpful...!)

RM
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Re: Vanguard funds in different places

Postby Big Worm » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:15 am

ResearchMed wrote:Go to the main Vanguard site (Vanguard.com) and click on "INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS" and "go to the site" (not personal investors).
Then click on "VIEW ALL INVESTMENTS".
And then, go to the bottom and click "SHOW ALL PRODUCTS" (yup, a bit redundant).

You will then see ALL of the different "classes" for each fund.
Some are only available in one or two classes; others in quite a few.

You can click on the exact symbol that you want.
If there is an Investor or Admiral class, then you could invest in it outside your company's program.
Their institutional and signal classes, etc., have lower ER's, so having access to those is good.

WHY Vanguard makes it so difficult to find this information isn't clear, especially as many "personal investors" have these other classes in their 401k/403b accounts.
(We regularly use this chart, and actually had a complaint FROM Vanguard that we "should" be using the "personal investor" page. How helpful...!)

RM


Excellent find! Thanks for the info. Don't know why that is buried so deep in the site :annoyed It appears that the TranAmerica fees are exactly the same as the Vanguard fees:

-Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Signal (VBTSX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.1/.1)
Vanguard ER .1%

-Vanguard Value Index Signal (VVISX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.1/.1)
Vanguard ER .1%

-Vanguard Institutional Index I (VINIX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.04/.04)
Vanguard ER .04%

-Vanguard Growth Index Signal (VIGSX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.1/.1)
Vanguard ER .1%

-Vanguard Midcap Value Index Inv (VMVIX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.24/.24)
Vanguard ER .24%

-Vanguard Selected Value IDx Inv (VASVX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.38/.38)
Vanguard ER .38%

-Vanguard Mid Cap Index Signal (VMISX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.1/.1)
Vanguard ER .1%

-Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Index Inv (VMGIX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.24/.24)
Vanguard ER .24%

-Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Inv (VISVX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.24/.24)
Vanguard ER .24%

-Vanguard Small Cap Index Signal (VSISX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.1/.1)
Vanguard ER .1%

-Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index Inv (VISGX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.24/.24)
Vanguard ER .24%

-Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Signal (VTSGX)
TransAmerica Gross/Net (.16/.16)
Vanguard ER .16%

So I think I will leave my funds with TransAmerica since I can park them with Vanguard for what appears to be the same expense as if I invested directly with Vanguard. I just need to figure out what to move to.
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