Adjustable Target Life Ins

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Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dekecarver » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:51 pm

Hello all,
I am hoping to receive some feedback regarding my current situation. In 1985 my father purchased an adjustable target life insurance policy for me at a cost of $40/mo for $100k policy which is what I also currently pay. I called NYL life today and was informed they no longer offer Adjustable Target Life policy and then put me in touch with an agent. I basically wanted to know what the cash surrender value would be in say 15 plus years. The agent confirmed they no longer offer this policy and was adamant that I come into the office so that he could run the numbers for me and go over other options as he said customers who have this type of policy are converting to better products. I told him I'd like to educate myself before I come in to his office in which he replied it was his job to do that for me.

I can't say that I would even have an insurance policy had my father not purchased on my behalf back in 83'. My current situation is: I'm 48, wife and I are state employees with 20 years state gov't employment, 7 yr old child and no more planned.

Anyways I'd appreciate feedback on whether this is a situation where I should consider to simply continue with the current policy or consider something else that the agent will throw out?

Thanks in advance.
dekecarver
 
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:01 pm

Have the life insurance provide you with an illustration of cash value, projected cash value and amount of life insurance in-force. If the life insurance no longer offers the policy, chances are they don't because it is no longer profitable for them, but it could be highly profitable for you. At your age, I would not reset the clock with a whole-life policy as the premiums are likely to be much higher. However, without having the information from that illustration, it's hard to determine what the true value of the policy may be. There is an outside independent reputable organization called "Evaluate Life Insurance" run by an actuary, Jim Hunt which can provide an assessment for a reasonable fee of the policy and whether or not it is profitable for you to keep it or discard it. http://evaluatelifeinsurance.org/
"Luck is not a strategy" Asking Portfolio Questions
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dhodson » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:41 pm

This isn't likely a whole life policy. It's likely a universal life policy and the cost of insurance will increase with time. Request in force illustration and if they try to balk then let them know you are contacting the state insurance commissioner about it.

Most likely you will want to get term then surrender the policy but the illustration will help. If you keep the policy then pay yearly to avoid finance fees.
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dekecarver » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:31 am

Thanks for the responses. When I contacted NYL the rep said it really wasn't a whole life or term but different?? Also indicated the policy was in force until I was 95 yrs of age.

I can't figure out why an agent couldn't just run the numbers and give me a ball park range over the phone of what the cash surrender value would be say when I'm 60 or so. My monthly premium has been and is fixed at $40/mo and the policy currently is paying 4% on the cash value.

Any additional feedback/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks in advance.
dekecarver
 
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dhodson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:36 am

you likely have a UL as i mentioned.

you really need the in force illustration from them. they have to provide it.

you arent getting what you think you are getting. Once you see the in force illustration you likely will understand why.

obtain that and then post it here removing your name and such
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dekecarver » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:28 am

Hello all,
I final met with the NYL agent who turned out to be smooth fast talking agent who wanted to be my financial advisor. The bottom line was that his primary pitch was to convert the policy to something different as he said NYL no longer offers the current policy and that he had better options. His pitch was:
1. Surrender the policy for cash value.
2. Surrender the policy and convert to term policy for half the coverage at the same premium.
3. Surrender the policy and convert to some type of annuity.
4. Provide a detailed asset disclosure so that he could determine which option would be best.
I thanked him for his time and told him that he had provided exactly what I wanted (inforce illustration) that I would not be signing any documents or making any decisions at the moment. I actually had to say “I’m telling you No seven times.”
Following is the inforce illustration.



Non-Smoker $100,000 Face Amount
Guaranteed Charges ------------ Non Guaranteed Charges ---------------------
Guaranteed Interest Current Interest Illustrative Interest
Of 4.00% Of 4.00% ** Of 4.00%
1---------------------------1 l-----------------------~---I 1---------------------------1
Net Net Cash Net Net Net Cash Net Net Net Cash Net
Net Accum. Surrender Death Accum. Surrender Death Accum. Surrender Death
YR AGE Premium Value Value Benefit Value Value Benefit Value Value Benefit
B.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y. E.O.Y.
29 48 440 18115 18115 118115 18456 18456 118456 18456 18456 118456
30 49 480 18475 18475 118475 19242 19242 119242 19242 19242 119242
31 50 480 18764 18764 118764 20017 20017 120017 20017 20017 120017
32 51 480 18967 18967 118967 20800 20800 120800 20800 20800 120800
33 52 480 19068 19068 119068 21559 21559 121559 21559 21559 121559
34 53 480 19051 19051 119051 22293 22293 122293 22293 22293 122293
35 54 480 18899 18899 118899 22999 22999 122999 22999 22999 122999
36 55 480 18594 18594 118594 23653 23653 123653 23653 23653 123653
37 56 480 18082 18082 118082 24201 24201 124201 24201 24201 124201
38 57 480 17354 17354 117354 24647 24647 124647 24647 24647 124647
39 58 480 16389 16389 116389 24966 24966 124966 24966 24966 124966
40 59 480 15141 15141 115141 25129 25129 125129 25129 25129 125129
41 60 480 13904 13904 113904 25449 25449 125449 25449 25449 125449
42 61 480 12422 12422 112422 25667 25667 125667 25667 25667 125667
43 62 480 10685 10685 110685 25790 25790 125790 25790 25790 125790
44 63 480 8683 8683 108683 25830 25830 125830 25830 25830 125830
45 64 480 6430 6430 106430 25821 25821 125821 25821 25821 125821
46 65 480 3903 3903 103903 25751 25751 125751 25751 25751 125751
47 66 480 970 970 100970 25543 25543 125543 25543 25543 125543
48 67 480 0 0 0 25170 25170 125170 25170 25170 125170
49 68 480 0 0 0 24615 24615 124615 24615 24615 124615
50 69 480 0 0 0 23859 23859 123859 23859 23859 123859
51 70 480 0 0 0 22875 22875 122875 22875 22875 122875
52 71 480 0 0 0 21590 21590 121590 21590 21590 121590
53 72 480 0 0 0 19973 19973 119973 19973 19973 119973
54 73 480 0 0 0 17998 17998 117998 17998 17998 117998
55 74 480 0 0 0 15631 15631 115631 15631 15631 115631
56 75 480 0 0 0 12814 12814 112814 12814 12814 112814
57 76 480 0 0 o , 9497 9497 109497 9497 9497 109497
58 77 480 0 0 0 5587 5587 105587 5587 5587 105587
59 78 480 0 0 0 989 989 100989 989 989 100989
60 79 480 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY ---------------------------------------------- - -----------
46 65 480 3903 3903 103903 25751 25751 125751 25751 25751 125751
48 67 480 0 0 0 25170 25170 125170 25170 25170 125170
51 70 480 0 0 0 22875 22875 122875 22875 22875 122875
60 79 480 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

As noted in my original post I would appreciate feedback regarding this policy to determine whether I should keep it in place or cash out for something else. My cost basis is ~$13,500.

Thanks in advance for your time and feedback.
dekecarver
 
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dekecarver » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:29 am

Sorry about the format of the spreadsheet. Can someone tell me how to post so that it is readable? Thanks
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby HomerJ » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:20 am

It's all bogus...

Cash the thing out, buy $400,000 of 15-year term for the same $40 a month, and never use life insurance as an investment again.

Search for life insurance on this forum if you don't understand why.
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dhodson » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:03 am

i apologize but as you know, its hard to be sure of the col names given the lack of correct formating. I believe though that it shows the guaranteed side collapsing at age 67 (no csv at that point) and non guaranteed side at age 79 with the current premium. To me this would mean there is a high likelihood this policy will crash without funding it at a higher level (unless you have developed significant health issues to make it such that you are likely to live less than average). I definitely wouldnt be willing to purchase or 1035 exchange into another permanent life insurance. Id consider getting term insurance in place (you dont necessarily have an insurance need but im concerned you might in the future. if you dont agree with that then i wouldnt get any term). Id surrender the policy and invest in a boglehead manner.
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Re: Adjustable Target Life Ins

Postby dekecarver » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:50 pm

Thanks for the replies. I apologize for the formatting but could not figure out how to get it right. My inclination is to surrender and invest the cash value.
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