Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

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Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby wolf433 » Wed May 22, 2013 2:30 pm

Does anyone have experience with Allan Roth/Wealth Logic?
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby Mel Lindauer » Wed May 22, 2013 4:20 pm

wolf433 wrote:Does anyone have experience with Allan Roth/Wealth Logic?


While I'm obviously not a client of Allan (I'm a DIYer), I do know him personally and I can recommend him highly. He's sharp as a tack and as honest as the day is long.

FWIW, Allan has appeared on the Experts Panel at a number of our annual Bogleheads Conferences and will join us again in Philly in October at Bogleheads 12.
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby LadyGeek » Wed May 22, 2013 5:37 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (financial planner).

The wiki has background info: Allan Roth
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby Rusa » Wed May 22, 2013 5:57 pm

Yes, we are his clients, and we are very happy with his help. Also, read his book before you talk to him. You will save a lot of time that way.

PS: Wolf, I sent a response to your PM; let me know if you don't get it.
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby mlewis » Wed May 22, 2013 11:15 pm

I hope I don't offend anybody, but I have wondered for a while about something I heard Allen say in a boglehead expert panel session video I watched online.

If I remember correctly, the panel was talking about international allocation. Rick Ferri said something like how he split Euro/Pacific 50/50, and Allen said how he just groups it together into one fund.

This sort of baffled me. I know that different people come down differently on the S+D debate. But to my knowledge their is good evidence that splitting up your international allocation a bit has a good chance to boost returns.
If you're dealing with a DIY investor (I am one myself) a total international fund or something like it might be the way to go, for the sake of simplicity. If I'm paying somebody to manage my money, however, I don't want them simply choosing the simplest solution. If there is a practical way to increase the chances of higher returns, I want my money manager on the case. That (among other things) is what I'm paying him for.

That being said, anybody who's been promoting the boglehead philosophy for years is better than 99.9999% of financial advisors out there, and in the grand scheme of things you probably can't go wrong with him. Many investors will benefit from hiring an advisor.

Good luck
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby ObliviousInvestor » Wed May 22, 2013 11:33 pm

mlewis wrote:If I'm paying somebody to manage my money, however, I don't want them simply choosing the simplest solution. If there is a practical way to increase the chances of higher returns, I want my money manager on the case. That (among other things) is what I'm paying him for.

A relevant point here is that Allan Roth is not a money manager. He provides hourly advice, but the management of the portfolio is up to you (unless you want to hire a second advisor to take care of that). In his firm's ADV Part 2, "portfolio simplification for ease of management" is explicitly mentioned as a service provided.

Edited to add: Like Mel, I am not a client of Allan's, but based on my interactions with him, I have nothing but positive things to say.
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby wolf433 » Wed May 22, 2013 11:47 pm

f I remember correctly, the panel was talking about international allocation. Rick Ferri said something like how he split Euro/Pacific 50/50, and Allen said how he just groups it together into one fund.
I am quite familiar with how and why Rick Ferri operates as I have been a loyal client for many years. I appreciate everyone's input on how Allan Roth operates. He may not be the "one".
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby Mel Lindauer » Thu May 23, 2013 12:01 am

wolf433 wrote:f I remember correctly, the panel was talking about international allocation. Rick Ferri said something like how he split Euro/Pacific 50/50, and Allen said how he just groups it together into one fund.
I am quite familiar with how and why Rick Ferri operates as I have been a loyal client for many years. I appreciate everyone's input on how Allan Roth operates. He may not be the "one".


Actually, my understanding is that the two aren't really competitors. Allan is a fee-only financial planner who works with you to make recommendations and develop plans, while Rick manages your money. (One or both can correct me if I'm wrong.)
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby beachplum » Thu May 23, 2013 10:40 am

I am also a client of Allan's. He was the only person I could find that would help my husband and I set up a financial plan and not want to manage our money. Like another posted stated, he is the most honest advisor you could work with, as well as one of the smartest.
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Re: Allan Roth/ Wealth Logic

Postby G-Money » Thu May 23, 2013 11:16 am

mlewis wrote:I hope I don't offend anybody, but I have wondered for a while about something I heard Allen say in a boglehead expert panel session video I watched online.

If I remember correctly, the panel was talking about international allocation. Rick Ferri said something like how he split Euro/Pacific 50/50, and Allen said how he just groups it together into one fund.

This sort of baffled me. I know that different people come down differently on the S+D debate. But to my knowledge their is good evidence that splitting up your international allocation a bit has a good chance to boost returns.

Here's a link to a discussion from last August where Rick explains why he splits Europe/Pacific 50/50, with several comments from posters for and against the approach: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=94976

I'm not personally a fan of Rick Ferri's splitting of Europe/Pacific. First, this leaves out Canada (his personal and perhaps his model portfolio has some allocation to small cap international, which may include Canada, but certainly, he leaves out the large caps). Canada is developed, so it doesn't show up in the Emerging Markets allocation, and it comprises about 7.5% of the Total International Index (which means it is almost 10% of developed international equities).

Second, I'm unconvinced by Rick's arguments for the split. The Developed Market Index has historically tracked something close to the EAFE index (developed international), which itself is roughly 60% Europe and 40% Pacific. So Rick's split overweights Pacific slightly, and underweights Europe. His method would be expected to outperform anytime Pacific outperforms Europe. Likewise, anytime Europe outperforms Pacific, the "lumper" method of just holding Europe and Pacific in market weights will outperform. This is true ANYTIME you overweight a subset of a larger asset class. Think 50/50 splits of TSM ex-Enron / Enron (TSM would outperform) or TSM ex-Apple / Apple (the 50/50 split would outperform). Whenever an overweighted part outperforms, so will your portfolio. And vice versa.

I don't think Rick's approach is a grave sin against investing or anything of the sort. I just think it adds needless complexity that is as likely to outperform as it is to underperform.
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