reloaded [Forum and wiki were offline]

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reloaded [Forum and wiki were offline]

Postby mingstar » Tue May 21, 2013 8:00 pm

Hi Folks,

We had a problem that took down the forum. I've repaired the system but we lost posts made after May 19 06:15 AM EDT.

Sorry!

Larry
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Re: reloaded

Postby InvestorNewb » Tue May 21, 2013 8:02 pm

Glad to see it's back up again!
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Re: reloaded

Postby kenschmidt » Tue May 21, 2013 8:04 pm

It's good to be back! Thanks Larry!
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Re: reloaded

Postby johnkidding » Tue May 21, 2013 8:05 pm

woot! 3rd post!

Welcome back bogleheads
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Re: reloaded

Postby runner9 » Tue May 21, 2013 8:05 pm

Glad the site is back! Reminded me of after Hurricane Sandy, I had to find something else to do with my time :wink:
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Re: reloaded

Postby dhodson » Tue May 21, 2013 8:09 pm

5th for me
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Re: reloaded

Postby LadyGeek » Tue May 21, 2013 8:10 pm

Also, thanks. The lost efforts include the wiki since May 19th.

I have some work to do, but I'm very happy that it was "only" a few days.
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Re: reloaded

Postby prudent » Tue May 21, 2013 8:12 pm

Glad to be back and a big tip o' the Prudent cap to the admins. Your work is appreciated.
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Re: reloaded

Postby btenny » Tue May 21, 2013 8:14 pm

Thanks for getting the site back up. I see the PMs were also lost after 5/19 so any data or messages sent after that date should be resent..

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Re: reloaded

Postby Jfet » Tue May 21, 2013 8:15 pm

I am afraid to post in any topic because I was away for a few days and you guys have probably discussed everything there is to discuss. :oops:

Just have to wait for some interesting brand new topics to come around.
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Re: reloaded

Postby froggy » Tue May 21, 2013 8:17 pm

I clicked on day 3 and found some posts

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Re: reloaded

Postby LadyGeek » Tue May 21, 2013 8:22 pm

FYI - Anyone who registered as a new member after May 19th will have to re-register.

Other pending moderator actions, such as responding to complaints and reviewing of new member posts, are also reset back to May 19th.


FYI - I updated the wiki software to incorporate a maintenance and security release.
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Re: reloaded

Postby G-Money » Tue May 21, 2013 8:27 pm

Whew! I was going into withdrawal!
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Re: reloaded

Postby dhodson » Tue May 21, 2013 8:30 pm

You should cache some threads on your computer for such emergencies.
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Re: reloaded

Postby BrandonBogle » Tue May 21, 2013 8:36 pm

runner9 wrote:Glad the site is back! Reminded me of after Hurricane Sandy, I had to find something else to do with my time :wink:


I felt the same way!
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Re: reloaded

Postby bayview » Tue May 21, 2013 8:36 pm

Glad you're back! I was starting to twitch.
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Re: reloaded

Postby Johm221122 » Tue May 21, 2013 8:39 pm

Thanks for all the work the moderators and founders have put into this site.It is a gold mine of information for the average investor
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Re: reloaded

Postby fatlever » Tue May 21, 2013 8:40 pm

wohooo
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Re: reloaded

Postby Calm Man » Tue May 21, 2013 8:42 pm

Can we be apprised as to WHAT happened that caused the site to be "taken down"? I am sure it needed to be done but seems quite extreme. Was there a virus or attack?
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Re: reloaded

Postby House Blend » Tue May 21, 2013 8:44 pm

Just as an FYI, a fair amount of the lost postings can be found in Google's cache. I'm not suggesting that the moderators do anything about it, but those of us who want to restore a post to an existing thread may be able to fish it out of the cache.

Example:
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1700020#p1700020
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Re: reloaded

Postby delisim » Tue May 21, 2013 8:58 pm

mingstar wrote:Hi Folks,

We had a problem that took down the forum. I've repaired the system but we lost posts made after May 19 06:15 AM EDT.

Sorry!

Larry

The previously reported cause - an ISP (FIOS) large area outage - shouldn't have impact the forum, wiki, etc. to necessitate a 2 day rollback for the entire site, which is what it sounds like happened by what LadyGeek posted above which indicates everything since May 19 06:15 AM EDT was lost, not just the posts. ISP service shouldn't have any effect on the data stored on the server itself or any collocated backup systems.

Can you/Alex clarify what actually happened that led to the need for a 2 day rollback of the entire site?
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Re: reloaded

Postby Rolyatroba » Tue May 21, 2013 9:09 pm

If it would be any help, I am a very experienced IT person and would be glad to offer assistance to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again--either such a long outage or loss of data.

Just a quick investigation shows that the website is hosted at a small computer company in New Jersey (which seems to be going under some kind of construction according to their website), which leads me to think the site is not hosted with modern infrastructure.

For only a few dollars a month, the site could be hosted in a world class data center, with redundant power sources and paths to the Internet backbone, and backed up on an almost continuous basis. And for not much more, you can add content network distribution, virtually ensuring 100% uptime.

Alexa says this site is in the top 30k of all websites worldwide, and they track millions, so I think it safe to say it would be worth the effort.
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Re: reloaded

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Tue May 21, 2013 9:17 pm

Thanks for getting us back up. We appreciate it! I only had my coffee this morning, instead of my usual Bogleheads and coffee routine. :(
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Re: reloaded

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Tue May 21, 2013 9:20 pm

Rolyatroba wrote:If it would be any help, I am a very experienced IT person and would be glad to offer assistance to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again--either such a long outage or loss of data.

Just a quick investigation shows that the website is hosted at a small computer company in New Jersey (which seems to be going under some kind of construction according to their website), which leads me to think the site is not hosted with modern infrastructure.

For only a few dollars a month, the site could be hosted in a world class data center, with redundant power sources and paths to the Internet backbone, and backed up on an almost continuous basis. And for not much more, you can add content network distribution, virtually ensuring 100% uptime.

Alexa says this site is in the top 30k of all websites worldwide, and they track millions, so I think it safe to say it would be worth the effort.


Alex and Larry own the website, practically do it as a labor of well, you know.... and rely on unsolicited contributions to keep it running. I guess we ought to pass the hat around soon.
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Re: reloaded

Postby Rolyatroba » Tue May 21, 2013 9:30 pm

I have received so much value from the forum and wiki, I would donate my time, and the first year of hosting fees. Raising just $500 or so would cover the site for the next 10 years after that. Heck I saw one post where a guy with a $60M portfolio got a lot of help--maybe a few PMs to him would finish the donation campaign! :)
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Re: reloaded

Postby More Please » Tue May 21, 2013 9:32 pm

Whew, I checked it about 20 times. What a relief.
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Re: reloaded

Postby Toons » Tue May 21, 2013 9:44 pm

G-Money wrote:Whew! I was going into withdrawal!


+1 :sharebeer
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Re: reloaded

Postby greg24 » Tue May 21, 2013 9:46 pm

Thanks for the efforts to get the site back up. Missing a couple days of data is small in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: reloaded

Postby englishgirl » Tue May 21, 2013 10:03 pm

Thanks for all the work you do, Larry and Alex, keeping the site up. It's times like these that make the rest of us really appreciate you. :sharebeer
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Re: reloaded

Postby Imperabo » Tue May 21, 2013 10:05 pm

I felt like the world ended for a while there.
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Re: reloaded

Postby chaz » Tue May 21, 2013 10:15 pm

englishgirl wrote:Thanks for all the work you do, Larry and Alex, keeping the site up. It's times like these that make the rest of us really appreciate you. :sharebeer

I agree!
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Re: reloaded

Postby Sheepdog » Wed May 22, 2013 12:28 am

englishgirl wrote:Thanks for all the work you do, Larry and Alex, keeping the site up. It's times like these that make the rest of us really appreciate you. :sharebeer

Yes, thank you so very much.
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Re: reloaded

Postby Valuethinker » Wed May 22, 2013 1:53 am

People here claim assets of millions of dollars.

Savings on that in terms of adviser fees would amount to 10s of thousands of dollars a year.

So far, I am not aware that the site has received more than say $25k in donations during its entire history.

We had a big rush after Sandy, but in the absence of any crisis of that sort of visibility, I doubt we shall see it now.

The economic expression is 'Tragedy of the Commons'.

Glad they are back up.
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Re: reloaded

Postby nisiprius » Wed May 22, 2013 6:34 am

Thank you, Larry and Alex. Please let the forum know what forum readers can do to help.
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Re: reloaded

Postby webslinger » Wed May 22, 2013 8:14 am

Several months ago, the Bogleheads site went down for a period of time. I missed it and also came to realize and appreciate that running and maintaining this site is not free. Posts by several members suggested that it was time to "pony up" and make a donation. I did. I'd like to suggest that others who value the content and unique structure of this forum also consider making a donation http://www.bogleheads.org/support.htm .

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Re: reloaded

Postby InvestorNewb » Wed May 22, 2013 8:28 am

Maybe bogleheads.org should switch hosting providers. A full day of downtime is unacceptable - this isn't the first noticeable bit of downtime either.

The owners of the site should consider using http://www.pingdom.com to monitor the uptime/downtime.
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Re: reloaded

Postby Tortuga » Wed May 22, 2013 9:45 am

I have just sent a small donation via Paypal in appreciation for the forum administration. Perhaps others could consider the same. :happy

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Re: reloaded

Postby gerrym51 » Wed May 22, 2013 9:47 am

InvestorNewb wrote:Maybe bogleheads.org should switch hosting providers. A full day of downtime is unacceptable - this isn't the first noticeable bit of downtime either.

The owners of the site should consider using http://www.pingdom.com to monitor the uptime/downtime.


amazing -you get something for free and it criticized-my wife does the same thing when she plays the "free games" on face book and an issue arises :annoyed
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Re: reloaded

Postby tfb » Wed May 22, 2013 10:14 am

gerrym51 wrote:
InvestorNewb wrote:Maybe bogleheads.org should switch hosting providers. A full day of downtime is unacceptable - this isn't the first noticeable bit of downtime either.

The owners of the site should consider using http://www.pingdom.com to monitor the uptime/downtime.


amazing -you get something for free and it criticized-my wife does the same thing when she plays the "free games" on face book and an issue arises :annoyed

It's not about criticizing. Certain options are available and more cost effective now that weren't available or cost effective a few years ago. For example with cloud hosting you are no longer tied to a specific set of hardware. If something fails you don't have to procure new hardware to replace the failed piece. You just restore to a new virtual server. It's not just about money. Admins and owners should consider taking up offers for help from members like this:

Rolyatroba wrote:If it would be any help, I am a very experienced IT person and would be glad to offer assistance to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again--either such a long outage or loss of data.

Just a quick investigation shows that the website is hosted at a small computer company in New Jersey (which seems to be going under some kind of construction according to their website), which leads me to think the site is not hosted with modern infrastructure.

For only a few dollars a month, the site could be hosted in a world class data center, with redundant power sources and paths to the Internet backbone, and backed up on an almost continuous basis. And for not much more, you can add content network distribution, virtually ensuring 100% uptime.

Alexa says this site is in the top 30k of all websites worldwide, and they track millions, so I think it safe to say it would be worth the effort.
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Re: reloaded

Postby ieee488 » Wed May 22, 2013 10:42 am

I'd like to throw out www.pair.com as an extremely reliable webhosting provider.
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Re: reloaded

Postby gerrym51 » Wed May 22, 2013 10:44 am

tfb wrote:
gerrym51 wrote:
InvestorNewb wrote:Maybe bogleheads.org should switch hosting providers. A full day of downtime is unacceptable - this isn't the first noticeable bit of downtime either.

The owners of the site should consider using http://www.pingdom.com to monitor the uptime/downtime.


amazing -you get something for free and it criticized-my wife does the same thing when she plays the "free games" on face book and an issue arises :annoyed

It's not about criticizing. Certain options are available and more cost effective now that weren't available or cost effective a few years ago. For example with cloud hosting you are no longer tied to a specific set of hardware. If something fails you don't have to procure new hardware to replace the failed piece. You just restore to a new virtual server. It's not just about money. Admins and owners should consider taking up offers for help from members like this:

Rolyatroba wrote:If it would be any help, I am a very experienced IT person and would be glad to offer assistance to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again--either such a long outage or loss of data.

Just a quick investigation shows that the website is hosted at a small computer company in New Jersey (which seems to be going under some kind of construction according to their website), which leads me to think the site is not hosted with modern infrastructure.

For only a few dollars a month, the site could be hosted in a world class data center, with redundant power sources and paths to the Internet backbone, and backed up on an almost continuous basis. And for not much more, you can add content network distribution, virtually ensuring 100% uptime.

Alexa says this site is in the top 30k of all websites worldwide, and they track millions, so I think it safe to say it would be worth the effort.


i believe this website is hosted/maintained by one of our main posters- i won't mention name cause i'm not sure- it might require them to change their entire company usage :mrgreen:
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Re: reloaded

Postby neurosphere » Wed May 22, 2013 10:57 am

I just made a small donation. Hopefully other who find value/knowledge/entertainment here will do the same.

Or maybe, Bogleheads should just start placing ads all over the site. You know, books advocating investing in Gold or "Daytrading for Dummies", perhaps some whole-life salesman would want to buy banner ads. :D
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Glad you're back!

Postby spencer99 » Wed May 22, 2013 4:07 pm

Boy, I sure missed this forum when it was down but that minor, slight, tiny, insignificant inconvenience is dwarfed by my appreciation of its reliable presence every other day. My sincere THANKS to those who keep this site up and running.

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Re: reloaded

Postby InvestorNewb » Wed May 22, 2013 4:27 pm

gerrym51 wrote:
InvestorNewb wrote:Maybe bogleheads.org should switch hosting providers. A full day of downtime is unacceptable - this isn't the first noticeable bit of downtime either.

The owners of the site should consider using http://www.pingdom.com to monitor the uptime/downtime.


amazing -you get something for free and it criticized-my wife does the same thing when she plays the "free games" on face book and an issue arises :annoyed


I wasn't criticizing. I run my own network of web sites and I can tell you that a full day of downtime is unacceptable from a host's perspective.

Last month, my main web site had 99.95% uptime, 4 outages of only 5 minutes each, and 612 ms response time. That's pretty darn good.

Given the popularity of bogleheads.org, the owners shouldn't settle for anything less either.

Being a free or paid service is irrelevant to the discussion.
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Re: reloaded

Postby tibbitts » Wed May 22, 2013 6:48 pm

InvestorNewb wrote:
gerrym51 wrote:
InvestorNewb wrote:Maybe bogleheads.org should switch hosting providers. A full day of downtime is unacceptable - this isn't the first noticeable bit of downtime either.

The owners of the site should consider using http://www.pingdom.com to monitor the uptime/downtime.


amazing -you get something for free and it criticized-my wife does the same thing when she plays the "free games" on face book and an issue arises :annoyed


I wasn't criticizing. I run my own network of web sites and I can tell you that a full day of downtime is unacceptable from a host's perspective.

Last month, my main web site had 99.95% uptime, 4 outages of only 5 minutes each, and 612 ms response time. That's pretty darn good.

Given the popularity of bogleheads.org, the owners shouldn't settle for anything less either.

Being a free or paid service is irrelevant to the discussion.

Or perhaps, That's pretty darn lucky.

A full day of downtime is at worst mildly annoying, but it's certainly not unusual, and it doesn't indicate that the owners of the site need technical help of any kind, or aren't just as experienced with web services than any other members of the forum. They may have their own preferences and agendas. So perhaps they're choosing colocation vs. hosting, for example, for reasons that don't have anything to do with lack of funding or lack of expertise. Lots of us who are also involved in the business aren't surprised or outraged at all when a site like bogleheads experiences a day of downtime, partly because we work with sites every day that experience similar difficulties - or worse - except that some of those sites directly affect commerce, or health, or some other activity that's more significant than debating the merits of $5000 watches.

I'm just not seeing where any suggestions/criticisms etc. are warranted based on a few minor incidents of downtime that have had no detrimental effects on anyone.

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Re: reloaded [Forum and wiki were offline]

Postby LadyGeek » Wed May 22, 2013 7:01 pm

^^^ Thank you.

BTW - Responses to prior comments should be made by the site owners, mingstar and Alex Frakt. It's why I haven't posted anything. (I also retitled the thread.)
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Re: reloaded [Forum and wiki were offline]

Postby Fallible » Wed May 22, 2013 7:11 pm

Me when the Forum is down: :shock:
Me when it's back up: :D

Thank you Alex and Larry. :beer

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Re: reloaded [Forum and wiki were offline]

Postby gtaylor » Wed May 22, 2013 7:29 pm

Yeah, I think Paul has the right idea here; bogleheads.org is a very nicely run site for a labor of love that is as useful and popular as it is.

I'm probably biased, though, I used to run one long ago on another topic. I can only imagine the pain that this thing's fashionably PHP-themed stack must be to juggle. That it isn't gloriously secure, gloriously redundant, or gloriously buzzword compliant doesn't seem like a big whoop to me.

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Thank you.

Postby Taylor Larimore » Wed May 22, 2013 7:40 pm

Larry (and Alex):

When I retired, I decided to help others. Your forum gave me the opportunity.

Thank you for bringing it back to usefulness.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: reloaded [Forum and wiki were offline]

Postby ruralavalon » Wed May 22, 2013 7:58 pm

Glad you're back :!:
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