ING or Ameriprise? [for 403(b)]

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ING or Ameriprise? [for 403(b)]

Postby jbk » Mon May 06, 2013 11:28 pm

That's the depressing 403(b) choice at the wife's new job. She'll find out specifically what funds are offered in each next week, but until then I was just wondering if there is an obvious "winner" between the two. Thanks.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby Johm221122 » Tue May 07, 2013 1:34 am

We need the exspence ratios but if I was betting, I (say) ING
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Last edited by Johm221122 on Tue May 07, 2013 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby StormShadow » Tue May 07, 2013 1:36 am

Johm221122 wrote:We need the exspence ratios but if I was betting, I sat ING
John

Ditto.

Avoid Ameriprise like the plague.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby Default User BR » Tue May 07, 2013 2:00 pm

It's difficult to say without the details of each offering. ING administers the plan here at MyMegaCorp, but they didn't choose the funds. Those were in existence when they took over.


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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby Winthorpe » Wed May 08, 2013 2:30 am

I also vote to AVOID AMERIPRISE !!!
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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby JW Nearly Retired » Wed May 08, 2013 8:35 am

Default User BR wrote:It's difficult to say without the details of each offering. ING administers the plan here at MyMegaCorp, but they didn't choose the funds. Those were in existence when they took over.
Brian

Same experience with ING at my MegaCorp. The company switched admins a few years back and nothing very significant changed. Expenses stayed very low.

One exception to that is the people answering the ING help phone are not helpful & polite like the old admin. Very rarely ever phone them so this is based on a small sample. Recently I inquired about impending retirement issues. Got no answers from a testy individual who said to call back when I was retired.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby hicabob » Wed May 08, 2013 9:05 am

Ameriprise is infamous for usurious fees. It's a testemant to investor naivety that they are still able to pull this off.
I've always had good experiences with ING.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby Boglenaut » Wed May 08, 2013 9:53 pm

hicabob wrote:Ameriprise is infamous for usurious fees. It's a testemant to investor naivety that they are still able to pull this off.



America + Enterprise = Ameriprise. Golly, didn't they come up with the better name!? :wink:
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Re: ING or Ameriprise?

Postby NOLA » Thu May 09, 2013 8:48 pm

The compnay that I work for (about 100 people) has ING as their 401k choice. All of the funds that are available to us have about a 1% ER. Then the FAs, that I have never met, add another 1%.

Yeah, its that terrible.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise? [for 403(b)]

Postby jbk » Tue May 14, 2013 11:22 pm

Thanks for the replies. The consensus here seems to be that Ameriprise should be avoided, but I'll present some details since we finally have the paperwork on both plans.

Ameriprise seems to offer only five portfolios which are "funds of funds." Those five portfolios range from Aggressive to Conservative. The annual portfolio operating expenses range from 1.09% for Aggressive and go down to .92% for Conservative. In addition to that, however, there is a .85% mortality and expense fee. And possibly in addition to that, there is another 1.8% fee listed under "Maximum fees," for which I can't find an explanation. I'm not sure if those two fees are separate or not. It seems the best case scenario at Ameriprise is between 1.77% and 1.94%. If the maximum fee is additional (worst case scenario), then the fees may total between 3.62% and 3.79%. And this doesn't include the individual fund fees.

ING has a 1.5% mortality and expense charge and a .25% administrative charge for a total ING charge of 1.75%. This does not include expenses charged by the funds themselves. We're still making our way through all of that, but at this point we seem to have confirmed the general suspicion that ING is probably slightly less of a rip-off than Ameriprise. I vaguely remember reading somewhere on this forum that anything under 4% still makes investing in a 401(k) or 403(b) worthwhile, so we have to take some solace in that.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise? [for 403(b)]

Postby NOLA » Wed May 15, 2013 12:14 am

I had the same question before and I remember someone more knowledgable person telling me that the "magic" number is around 2%. If you plan on leaving you company within a certain amount of years, 2%ER is doable. However, if you plan on staying there for the rest of your career, a taxable account is recommended (assuming there is no match).

Good luck.
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Re: ING or Ameriprise? [for 403(b)]

Postby StormShadow » Thu May 16, 2013 3:34 pm

jbk wrote:Ameriprise seems to offer only five portfolios which are "funds of funds."...If the maximum fee is additional (worst case scenario), then the fees may total between 3.62% and 3.79%. And this doesn't include the individual fund fees.

ING has a 1.5% mortality and expense charge and a .25% administrative charge for a total ING charge of 1.75%. This does not include expenses charged by the funds themselves.

Yuck. Here's what I'd do...

If the 403b fees are too high (for me, thats anything above 1%)... I would contribute to the 403b up to the match (pick the cheapest index fund and/or bond fund there; you can balance it with your own 403b/401k, IRA... etc), then max out her IRA (traditional or roth depending on your tax bracket) and then contribute to a taxable account.

I think taxable accounts get a bad rep. Its liquid, which is obviously helpful for emergencies. Plus you can do things like TLH every year. Is it possible for your wife to explore a solo 401k? Do you have anything that can be set up as an independent business?

Other ideas... if you yourself have much better options, then perhaps consider using her salary to pay for things like... a health savings plan, a 529 if you have children, term life insurance and long term disability.

Are you near 59 1/2? You could look to do an "in-service" IRA rollover of your 403b as she contributes to it. Some plans allow you to do this before retirement age.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0225/046.html
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