help with choice of 403b and vanguard

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403b choices

Postby gopro » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:02 pm

SEE below post
Last edited by gopro on Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 403b choices

Postby ruralavalon » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:13 pm

More information would help a lot -- viewtopic.php?t=6212 . You can just add to your original post using the "edit" button.

Please include fund names, not just the ticker symbols. We don't usually have the ticker symbols for funds memorized and would have to look them up.

It does look like he has some very good funds available, like:
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Signal Shares (VBTSX)
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Signal Shares (VTSSX)
Vanguard Instiutional Index
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Re: 403b choices

Postby gopro » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:04 pm

Emergency funds: 24,000 in credit union
Debt: 0
Tax rate: 25% federal, 6% state
Tax: married joint
State: Georgia
Age: 59
Desired asset allocation: ? stocks/? Bonds
Desired International allocation: ?

Husband 403b: 349,000
we have Lincoln alliance with our 403b... I dont have much choices
54.01% bond VBTSX (vanguard total bond market index signal) expense .11%
15.32% Large MLAIX (Mainstay Large cap growth) .88
15.32% small CIPSX (Champlain small company) 1.44
15.44% Lg blend VTSSX vanguard total stock mkt index signal .07
.07% forg lge value DODFX Dodge and cox international stock) .65
they have Vanguard institutional index Lg blend at .04% aggressive.

Husband Roth
Vanguard star fund vgstx .34% expense 5,097.06 do not know how to do asset allocation?
Vanguard target retirement vtwnx.16% 1,608
Vanguard Wellesley income fund vwinx.25% 3,403
IRA
Wellington fund vwelx .27% expense 5,825
Funds available in Husband 403b
First eagle fund of America FEFAX 1.49
Vanguard institutional index insti VINIX .04
American funds fundamental investors r5 RFNFX .36
Vanguard target retirement 2015 VTXVX .18
2035 VTTVX .18
Pimo high yield admin PHYAX .80
PIMCO low duration insti PTLDX .46

Wife 403b 72,000
Lincoln alliance
Blckrck inflation protected ptf insti BPRIX 29.43% expense 1.04
Pimco total return inst PTTRX 29.39 .45
Lincoln stable value 15.96. .20
Colmbia mid cap index fund class 7 NMPAX 15.16 .20
Colmbia small cap index primary z shares NMSCX 10.06 .20
All LINCOLN FUNDS
wife 403b
american funds europacific gr r5RERFX expense rato .55% Foreign large blend
invesco real estate instiutional IARIX .91% Real Estate
sentinel small company SIGWX .72% Small Growth
columbia small cap index Z NMSCX .20% Small Blend
Allianz NFJ small cap value insti PSVIX .78% small value
blackrock us opportunities insti BMCIX 1.04% mid cap growth
columbia mid cap indexZ NMPAX .20% mid cap blend
perkins mid cap value1 JMVAX .85% mid cap value
american funds growth fund of amer RGAFX .38% large growth
columbia large cap indexZ NINDX .17% large blend
american funds fundamental investors r5 .36% large blend
blackrock equity dividend insti MADVX .80% large value
oppenheimer international bond y OIBY .67% world bond
Pimco real return insti PRRIX .45% inflation-protected bond
blackrock inflation protected bond insti BPRIX .45% inflation-protected bond
pimco total return insti PTTRX .46% intermediate-term bond

Keep in mind that my husband can roll over to ira in april and wife can in sept....

No taxable accounts


Then the ones above

Questions:
1. Don’t know where to put my money in the 403b’s
2. Don’t know how to find the % in vanguard
3. Don’t really know what funds to look at with the asset allocation in Vanguard
Last edited by gopro on Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 403b choices

Postby ruralavalon » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:47 pm

gopro wrote: 4. Will post wifes 403b choices.

Please do post the other funds offered in her 403b.

How much do you expect to be able to save for investing annually during the next few years?

Is there a match in the 403bs? If so how much?


gopro wrote:Age: 59
Desired asset allocation: ? stocks/? Bonds
Desired International allocation: ?

Here are some things you could look at in thinking about asset allocation:

Stocks/bonds --
Wiki article link: Asset Allocation
viewtopic.php?p=1217243#p1217243

International--
Wiki article link: Domestic/International
viewtopic.php?p=98922
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icriecr.pdf
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Re: 403b choices

Postby gopro » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:01 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
gopro wrote: 4. Will post wifes 403b choices.

ruralavalon wrote:Please do post the other funds offered in her 403

will do
How much do you expect to be able to save for investing annually during the next few years?

Is there a match in the 403bs? If so how much?


gopro wrote:Age: 59
Desired asset allocation: ? stocks/? Bonds
Desired International allocation: ?

Here are some things you could look at in thinking about asset allocation:

Stocks/bonds --
Wiki article link: Asset Allocation
viewtopic.php?p=1217243#p1217243

International--
Wiki article link: Domestic/International
viewtopic.php?p=98922
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icriecr.pdf


husband gets about 2200 from employer
we will be putting into savings in both accounts 58,000

we are trying to have around 750,000 in our savings before we retire
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Re: 403b choices

Postby gopro » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:16 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
gopro wrote: 4. Will post wifes 403b choices.

Please do post the other funds offered in her 403b.

How much do you expect to be able to save for investing annually during the next few years?

Is there a match in the 403bs? If so how much?


gopro wrote:Age: 59
Desired asset allocation: ? stocks/? Bonds
Desired International allocation: ?

Here are some things you could look at in thinking about asset allocation:

Stocks/bonds --
Wiki article link: Asset Allocation
viewtopic.php?p=1217243#p1217243

International--
Wiki article link: Domestic/International
viewtopic.php?p=98922
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icriecr.pdf

I do not totally understand to what my asset should be.... I have read the books
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Re: 403b choices

Postby ruralavalon » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:44 pm

I would suggest at age 59 that you consider having about 50% stocks and 50% bonds, with about 20% of stocks in internatonal (that is int'l at 10% of overall portfolio). Try giving the links anorther read to understand the reasoning. Which is: to have bonds and broad diversification of stocks to try to reduce your risk.

You still need to provide the list of the other fund choices offered in her 403b.
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Re: 403b choices

Postby gopro » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:50 pm

wife 403b
american funds europacific gr r5RERFX expense rato .55% Foreign large blend
invesco real estate instiutional IARIX .91% Real Estate
sentinel small company SIGWX .72% Small Growth
columbia small cap index Z NMSCX .20% Small Blend
Allianz NFJ small cap value insti PSVIX .78% small value
blackrock us opportunities insti BMCIX 1.04% mid cap growth
columbia mid cap indexZ NMPAX .20% mid cap blend
perkins mid cap value1 JMVAX .85% mid cap value
american funds growth fund of amer RGAFX .38% large growth
columbia large cap indexZ NINDX .17% large blend
american funds fundamental investors r5 .36% large blend
blackrock equity dividend insti MADVX .80% large value
oppenheimer international bond y OIBY .67% world bond
Pimco real return insti PRRIX .45% inflation-protected bond
blackrock inflation protected bond insti BPRIX .45% inflation-protected bond
pimco total return insti PTTRX .46% intermediate-term bond

Keep in mind that my husband can roll over to ira in april and wife can in sept....
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help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby gopro » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:47 pm

Emergency funds: 24,000 in credit union
Debt: 0
Tax rate: 25% federal, 6% state
Tax: married joint
State: Georgia
Age: 59
Desired asset allocation: ? stocks/? Bonds
Desired International allocation: ?

Husband 403b: 349,000
we have Lincoln alliance with our 403b... I dont have much choices
54.01% bond VBTSX (vanguard total bond market index signal) expense .11%
15.32% Large MLAIX (Mainstay Large cap growth) .88
15.32% small CIPSX (Champlain small company) 1.44
15.44% Lg blend VTSSX vanguard total stock mkt index signal .07
.07% forg lge value DODFX Dodge and cox international stock) .65
they have Vanguard institutional index Lg blend at .04% aggressive.

Husband Roth
Vanguard star fund vgstx .34% expense 5,097.06 do not know how to do asset allocation?
Vanguard target retirement vtwnx.16% 1,608
Vanguard Wellesley income fund vwinx.25% 3,403
IRA
Wellington fund vwelx .27% expense 5,825
Funds available in Husband 403b
First eagle fund of America FEFAX 1.49
Vanguard institutional index insti VINIX .04
American funds fundamental investors r5 RFNFX .36
Vanguard target retirement 2015 VTXVX .18
2035 VTTVX .18
Pimo high yield admin PHYAX .80
PIMCO low duration insti PTLDX .46

Wife 403b 72,000
Lincoln alliance
Blckrck inflation protected ptf insti BPRIX 29.43% expense 1.04
Pimco total return inst PTTRX 29.39 .45
Lincoln stable value 15.96. .20
Colmbia mid cap index fund class 7 NMPAX 15.16 .20
Colmbia small cap index primary z shares NMSCX 10.06 .20
All LINCOLN FUNDS
wife 403b
american funds europacific gr r5RERFX expense rato .55% Foreign large blend
invesco real estate instiutional IARIX .91% Real Estate
sentinel small company SIGWX .72% Small Growth
columbia small cap index Z NMSCX .20% Small Blend
Allianz NFJ small cap value insti PSVIX .78% small value
blackrock us opportunities insti BMCIX 1.04% mid cap growth
columbia mid cap indexZ NMPAX .20% mid cap blend
perkins mid cap value1 JMVAX .85% mid cap value
american funds growth fund of amer RGAFX .38% large growth
columbia large cap indexZ NINDX .17% large blend
american funds fundamental investors r5 .36% large blend
blackrock equity dividend insti MADVX .80% large value
oppenheimer international bond y OIBY .67% world bond
Pimco real return insti PRRIX .45% inflation-protected bond
blackrock inflation protected bond insti BPRIX .45% inflation-protected bond
pimco total return insti PTTRX .46% intermediate-term bond

Keep in mind that my husband can roll over to ira in april and wife can in sept....

No taxable accounts


Then the ones above

Questions:
1. Don’t know where to put my money in the 403b’s
2. Don’t know how to find the % in vanguard
3. Don’t really know what funds to look at wit
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby Occupier » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:57 pm

The standard Boglehead allocation for someone your age is about 50-60 % bonds, rest equity. International about 30% of the equity. The equity would be divided 90% total market/International, and 10% small to tilt a bit. I think you got exasperated typing because you stopped giving us percentages for what your investing in and expense ratios. The latter are really important. It is fairly common to find some funds 10 times more expensive than others, and they don't perform that much different. Vanguard expense rations are found for every fund on the vanguard web page first page for each fund. If I was you I would list the funds that are least expensive and try to get to a overall allocation like above with them. Sorry but that is about as far as I can go. Dave
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby gopro » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:18 am

thanks I will go back and list all the expense ratios.... but in wifes 403b the only foreign fund is at .55% are these expense ratios ok? plus should we roll over to ira when we get 591/2? looking at vanguard.... the only problem is we are not going to reitre until 62 so we would start from 0 again in our 403b wait a year then roll over again... that is what the rep said
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Re: 403b choices

Postby ruralavalon » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:54 pm

I would suggest at age 59 that you consider having about 50% stocks and 50% bonds, with about 20% of stocks in internatonal (that is int'l at 10% of overall portfolio).

Portfolio size $437k; planning to invest $58k/yr. With that amount of hoped-for annual saving you can fully fund the two 403bs, his IRA, and also open and fully fund an IRA for her; that is what I would suggest you do rather than do taxable investing. You do need to be aware of phase outs for the IRAs, which reduce the maximum amount you can contribute annually as your income (Modified AGI) rises, please see for example : Wiki article link: Traditional IRA .

At a combined marginal tax rate of 31% (25% federal, 6% state), it might well be best for you to use taditional IRAs rather than Roth IRAs for your future contributions, please see : Wiki article link: Traditional versus Roth ; http://thefinancebuff.com/case-against-roth-401k.html ; and viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104122&newpost=1523869 .

The idea is to develop a portfolio that combines broad diversification (to reduce your risk) with low expenses (to increase your net gain). You start by selecting the best choices in the 403bs (where the choices are limited), and then completing the asset allocation using the nearly unlimited choices in the IRAs.

I suggest that you do not use blended funds like Star, Wellington, Wellesley, etc. They are all good funds, but are mixed stock/bond funds and because of that using them will make it harder to keep track of your asset allocation percentages in the future.

I suggest initially using Dodge and Cox International Stock (DODFX) in his 403b, it is a good well managed moderate cost international fund. Ultimately I prefer Vanguard's Total International fund (in the IRAs), its a very low cost index fund which is very widely diversified covering developed markets including Canada, emerging markets, and both large and small cap stocks.

Here is a portfolio idea you could consider, current portfolio size $437k. All Percentages and amounts are rounded off.

His 403b at Lincoln (80%; $349k; add $23k/yr plus 2.2k match)
50%, $218k, Vanguard total bond market index signal (VBTSX), er = 0.11%
24%, $105k, Vanguard total stock mkt index signal (VTSSX), er = 0.07%, <= covers large, mid & small cap domestic stocks
06%, $26k, Dodge and Cox International Stock (DODFX), er= 0.65%, <= you would alter this % later as you build up Vanguard Total International in the IRAs

Her 403b at Lincoln (16%; $72k; add $23k/yr)
13%, $57k, Columbia large cap indexZ (NINDX), er = 0.17%, <= S&P 500 index fund
03%, $13k, Columbia small cap index Z (NMSCX), er = 0.20%, <= S&P Small Cap 600 index fund
(4.5:1 ratio of these two should approximate total market)

His Roth IRA at Vanguard (04%; $16k; add $5.5k/yr?)
04%, $16k,Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX), er = 0.16%

Her IRA at Vanguard (00%; $00; add $5.5k/yr ?)
00%; $00, Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares (VGTSX), er = 0.22%, <= can switch to even less expensive Admiral shares in a year or two when holding equals $10k

This gives you a simple portfolio using just 5 - 6 funds, which is very widely diversified, with very low expenses, making the best use of the low expense index funds in the two 403bs, and which should be easy to manage and rebalance going forward. All rebalancing could be done inside his 403b, at least initially. Wiki article link: Rebalancing .


gopro wrote:Keep in mind that my husband can roll over to ira in april and wife can in sept....
Given the good low cost index fund choices in the 403bs (all that's missing in the 403bs is a good low cost international index fund, which can get in your regular IRAs without the rollovers -- a little Dodge & Cox Int'l will do just fine in his 403b), I see almost no advantage to in-service transfers to rollover IRAs at this point. Since you are continuing to work and contribute to the 403bs, that will add 2 more accounts to manage.


Finally, I would suggest that you read a couple of the books on these reading lists, to help you understand the reasons for the suggestions, and to understand how to manage the portfolio in the future -- http://www.bogleheads.org/readbooks.htm ; and Wiki article link: Books: Recommendations and Reviews .

I hope that this helps.
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Re: 403b choices

Postby gopro » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:11 pm

i got the boglehead guide to investing and the boglehead retirement.... my husband is reading and I am re reading. thanks for your help
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby Duckie » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:55 pm

gopro, at your ages I recommend an AA of 50% stocks, 50% bonds, with 30% of stocks in international. That breaks down to 35% US stocks, 15% international stocks, and 50% bonds. Here is a possible retirement portfolio as of the end of the year (after assets have been rolled over):

His 403b at Lincoln Alliance -- $0 -- 0%
0% (VBTSX) Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Signal Shares (0.11%)

Her 403b at Lincoln Alliance -- $0 -- 0%
0% (NINDX) Columbia Large Cap Index Fund (0.17%)

His Rollover/Traditional IRA at Vanguard -- $355K -- 81% <-- Combine the new Rollover IRA with the existing Traditional IRA.
35% (VTSAX) Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (0.06%)
13% (VTIAX) Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (0.16%)
33% (VBTLX) Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (0.10%)

His Roth IRA at Vanguard -- $10K -- 2%
2% (VTIAX) Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (0.16%)

Her Rollover IRA at Vanguard -- $72K -- 17%
17% (VAIPX) Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securities Fund Admiral Shares (0.11%)

Since you are allowed to move the employer plans assets annually, just buy cheap funds in the plans. He can buy just the bond fund and she can buy just the large cap stock fund. Then roll them over.

Something to think about.
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby xram » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:21 pm

See if your 403b has a PCRA option. With a PCRA you pay 50-100 bucks per year and you can transfer your funds to a location with better choices (like Schwab).

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/inv ... ounts/pcra

Just a thought. I did not even know my 401k had this option. well worth 50 bucks per year in order to gain access to the cheapest/commission free ETFs on the market as well as any OTHER ETFs for 9 bucks per trade...

good luck
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby LadyGeek » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:43 pm

FYI - The OP had two similar threads, one titled "403b choices," the other as "help with choice of 403b and vanguard." To keep everything in one spot, I combined the threads into here.
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Re: 403b choices

Postby gopro » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:12 am

ruralavalon wrote:I would suggest at age 59 that you consider having about 50% stocks and 50% bonds, with about 20% of stocks in internatonal (that is int'l at 10% of overall portfolio).

Portfolio size $437k; planning to invest $58k/yr. With that amount of hoped-for annual saving you can fully fund the two 403bs, his IRA, and also open and fully fund an IRA for her; that is what I would suggest you do rather than do taxable investing. You do need to be aware of phase outs for the IRAs, which reduce the maximum amount you can contribute annually as your income (Modified AGI) rises, please see for example : Wiki article link: Traditional IRA .

At a combined marginal tax rate of 31% (25% federal, 6% state), it might well be best for you to use taditional IRAs rather than Roth IRAs for your future contributions, please see : Wiki article link: Traditional versus Roth ; http://thefinancebuff.com/case-against-roth-401k.html ; and viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104122&newpost=1523869 .

The idea is to develop a portfolio that combines broad diversification (to reduce your risk) with low expenses (to increase your net gain). You start by selecting the best choices in the 403bs (where the choices are limited), and then completing the asset allocation using the nearly unlimited choices in the IRAs.

I suggest that you do not use blended funds like Star, Wellington, Wellesley, etc. They are all good funds, but are mixed stock/bond funds and because of that using them will make it harder to keep track of your asset allocation percentages in the future.

I suggest initially using Dodge and Cox International Stock (DODFX) in his 403b, it is a good well managed moderate cost international fund. Ultimately I prefer Vanguard's Total International fund (in the IRAs), its a very low cost index fund which is very widely diversified covering developed markets including Canada, emerging markets, and both large and small cap stocks.

Here is a portfolio idea you could consider, current portfolio size $437k. All Percentages and amounts are rounded off.

His 403b at Lincoln (80%; $349k; add $23k/yr plus 2.2k match)
50%, $218k, Vanguard total bond market index signal (VBTSX), er = 0.11%
24%, $105k, Vanguard total stock mkt index signal (VTSSX), er = 0.07%, <= covers large, mid & small cap domestic stocks
06%, $26k, Dodge and Cox International Stock (DODFX), er= 0.65%, <= you would alter this % later as you build up Vanguard Total International in the IRAs

Her 403b at Lincoln (16%; $72k; add $23k/yr)
13%, $57k, Columbia large cap indexZ (NINDX), er = 0.17%, <= S&P 500 index fund
03%, $13k, Columbia small cap index Z (NMSCX), er = 0.20%, <= S&P Small Cap 600 index fund
(4.5:1 ratio of these two should approximate total market)

His Roth IRA at Vanguard (04%; $16k; add $5.5k/yr?)
04%, $16k,Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX), er = 0.16%

Her IRA at Vanguard (00%; $00; add $5.5k/yr ?)
00%; $00, Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares (VGTSX), er = 0.22%, <= can switch to even less expensive Admiral shares in a year or two when holding equals $10k

This gives you a simple portfolio using just 5 - 6 funds, which is very widely diversified, with very low expenses, making the best use of the low expense index funds in the two 403bs, and which should be easy to manage and rebalance going forward. All rebalancing could be done inside his 403b, at least initially. Wiki article link: Rebalancing .


gopro wrote:Keep in mind that my husband can roll over to ira in april and wife can in sept....
Given the good low cost index fund choices in the 403bs (all that's missing in the 403bs is a good low cost international index fund, which can get in your regular IRAs without the rollovers -- a little Dodge & Cox Int'l will do just fine in his 403b), I see almost no advantage to in-service transfers to rollover IRAs at this point. Since you are continuing to work and contribute to the 403bs, that will add 2 more accounts to manage.


Finally, I would suggest that you read a couple of the books on these reading lists, to help you understand the reasons for the suggestions, and to understand how to manage the portfolio in the future -- http://www.bogleheads.org/readbooks.htm ; and Wiki article link: Books: Recommendations and Reviews .

I hope that this helps.
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby gopro » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:23 am

When i went to exchange my vanguard funds it stated that I could do so until May 2013. so I guess I will have to wait.. should I go ahead and change the 403b funds
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby ruralavalon » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:12 pm

gopro wrote:When i went to exchange my vanguard funds it stated that I could do so until May 2013. so I guess I will have to wait.. should I go ahead and change the 403b funds

I would go ahead and change the funds in the two 403b accounts now. The remainder (his Roth IRA at Vanguard) is just 04% of the total, and is not now in anything that somehow needed to be changed soon.
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby gopro » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:23 pm

thanks alot
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby gopro » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:52 pm

gopro wrote:thanks alot

Since I posted last...my husbands 403 has changed to translate rica. I have done anything yet. The new company translate rica has mostly vanguards funds that are very low. I am looking at keeping this and rolling over my Lincoln funds
What does any one think of transamerica
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby LadyGeek » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:13 pm

What is "translate rica"? By your last sentence, I think you mean Transamerica funds. Do you have a more detailed fund name?

(I think a spell checker modified the post content.)
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Re: help with choice of 403b and vanguard

Postby ruralavalon » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:44 am

Welcome back :) .

gopro wrote:
gopro wrote:thanks alot

Since I posted last...my husbands 403 has changed to translate rica. I have done anything yet. The new company translate rica has mostly vanguards funds that are very low. I am looking at keeping this and rolling over my Lincoln funds
What does any one think of transamerica

Please explain "translate rica".

Please explain "I have done anything yet".

Please explain "I am looking at keeping this and rolling over my Lincoln funds".

Please list the Vanguard funds (fund names, tickers, expense ratios) in husband's new 403b and any other funds now offered in husband's new 403b.

Please put all your information, everyting as it now exists ,in one post in this format: "Asking Portfolio Questions" , so that all information is in one place rather than scattered over multiple posts. That will make it much essier to respond.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started
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ruralavalon
 
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