*fired my advisor* need help with investments

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*fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:49 pm

I am sorry to say that I was not impressed with my FA [no offense to all the professionals] ... it just didn't work out. I am not as financially saavy and nervous to take positions myself. Therefore looking for some guidance. Here's my situation:

Emergency funds: Cash: $100K
Debt: Mortgage on primary residence: $725K @ 2.75% (7/1 AMR)
Tax Filing Status: Married Filing Jointly
Tax Rate: 35% Federal, xx% State
State of Residence: NY
Age: (His:37)/(Her:32)
Desired Asset allocation: 80% stocks / 20% bonds
Desired International allocation: 25% of stocks

Retirement Account: $375K (His 401K: $20K, His IRA: $230K, Her 401K - $35K, Her IRA: $125K).
Non-retirement Investment Account: $725K ($250K in company stocks, rest sitting as cash)
Un-invested Cash: $250K
Thanks
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby icefr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:12 pm

Is that a typo or do you really have a $725k mortgage? Are you comfortable with that much debt? What is your plan for paying that down/off? Why do you have a $100k emergency fund? How much is necessary? It looks like your uninvested cash and non-retirement account cash add up to $725k. If it was me, I would consider taking all of that and wiping out the mortgage. I'm guessing that you are pretty cautious, but $100k in cash is still a pretty sizeable emergency fund to have left after paying off the mortgage.

For any questions about the funds in your accounts, read this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212
How much can you invest going forward? Are you maxing out both of your 401(k)s? You should be in the 35% tax bracket.

Why do you want only 20% in bonds? You're both in your thirties.
Last edited by icefr on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby runner9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:18 pm

Or, if the above numbers are all correct what your approx. monthly or yearly income and expenses? That might help put the numbers in perspective.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby livesoft » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:48 pm

WIth the 35% income tax bracket shown, one can guess income, but even that can be hard because even folks with less than $150K of income might pay a marginal rate of 35% due to loss of tax credits.

As for guidance: Start with the infamous 3-fund portfolio first: Wiki article link: Three-fund portfolio
Show us how you would achieve that in the context of your current accounts. When we see your homework, then we can add some frosting to those investments in terms of REITs, small-cap value index fund, TIPS, etc.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby skibbi9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:32 pm

icefr wrote:Is that a typo or do you really have a $725k mortgage? Are you comfortable with that much debt? What is your plan for paying that down/off? Why do you have a $100k emergency fund? How much is necessary? It looks like your uninvested cash and non-retirement account cash add up to $725k. If it was me, I would consider taking all of that and wiping out the mortgage. I'm guessing that you are pretty cautious, but $100k in cash is still a pretty sizeable emergency fund to have left after paying off the mortgage.

For any questions about the funds in your accounts, read this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212
How much can you invest going forward? Are you maxing out both of your 401(k)s? You should be in the 35% tax bracket.

Why do you want only 20% in bonds? You're both in your thirties.

I disagree simply from the fact that by transferring 700k from cash/investments he'd have too much in home equity. At 2.75% and mort int deductions that's cheap capital

A standard 3fund portfolio with your conditions would suggest:
VTSMX 60% 780,000
VGTSX 20% 260,000
VBMFX 20% 260,000 Hold in Tax advantaged
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby scone » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:51 pm

"$250K in company stocks..."

If this sum has vested, and if it were mine, I'd sell and put it in something diversified. Especially because of your housing debt. If there is a layoff at your company, your house could lose value too, and might be difficult to sell, yet you still have the mortgage. If you keep the company stock, and the company gets into difficulties, that's a double whammy just at the wrong time. Think Enron. Or Silicon Valley during the Tech Wreck. Your first duty and loyalty, now and always, is to your family and yourself, not your company.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:01 pm

Thanks everyone for your inputs so far.
A few clarifications:

1. I already have 40% equity in the home and with the mortgage, I hoping to take advantage of the low interest rates. In a perfect world, I would try to payoff the loan in the next 7-10 years
2. In regards to the emergency cash, honestly it's just a ball park figure. Besides the monthly expenses, I have accounted for annual expenses like life insurance, property insurance, intl travel etc
3. 401K's being maxed each yr
4. Combined gross income currently $350K / yr
5. Company stocks are from former employment ... fully vested

Thanks!
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby Default User BR » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:43 pm

n00b_to_investing wrote:Non-retirement Investment Account: $725K ($250K in company stocks, rest sitting as cash)

What does this mean? Is the money for retirement investing, but in a taxable account? Or designated for some non-retirement use?
n00b_to_investing wrote:Un-invested Cash: $250K

Is this for retirement?

With the mortgage, do you plan to sell the house within the seven-year period? How far into it are you? Have you looked into fixed-rate? I wouldn't be looking to pay it off if it were fixed, but an ARM for that large of a balance takes away a lot of the beneficial hedging once you get past the initial period.


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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby BolderBoy » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:53 pm

You are maxing out retirement investments each year - that is GREAT.

I'm struck that an 80/20 AA at your age is pretty stiff. Do you need to swing for the fence under the circumstances and if so, are you prepared to enjoy the inevitable deep correction(s) you'll see along the way toward retirement? A 70/30 or better a 60/40 AA would be a smoother ride and still likely get you to where you want to go.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby ddb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:13 pm

n00b_to_investing wrote:I am sorry to say that I was not impressed with my FA [no offense to all the professionals] ... it just didn't work out. I am not as financially saavy and nervous to take positions myself. Therefore looking for some guidance. Here's my situation:

Emergency funds: Cash: $100K
Debt: Mortgage on primary residence: $725K @ 2.75% (7/1 AMR)
Tax Filing Status: Married Filing Jointly
Tax Rate: 35% Federal, xx% State
State of Residence: NY
Age: (His:37)/(Her:32)
Desired Asset allocation: 80% stocks / 20% bonds
Desired International allocation: 25% of stocks

Retirement Account: $375K (His 401K: $20K, His IRA: $230K, Her 401K - $35K, Her IRA: $125K).
Non-retirement Investment Account: $725K ($250K in company stocks, rest sitting as cash)
Un-invested Cash: $250K
Thanks


Nowhere near enough information to generate any useful guidance. What are your goals? Feelings about risk? Future income expectations? Family aspirations? Current savings level (you mention max-funding 401k accounts, but this isn't sufficient given your high income)? Required/desired living expenses? Volatility of each of your industries? Income breakdown between you and spouse?

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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby ddb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:13 pm

n00b_to_investing wrote:I am sorry to say that I was not impressed with my FA [no offense to all the professionals] ... it just didn't work out. I am not as financially saavy and nervous to take positions myself. Therefore looking for some guidance. Here's my situation:

Emergency funds: Cash: $100K
Debt: Mortgage on primary residence: $725K @ 2.75% (7/1 AMR)
Tax Filing Status: Married Filing Jointly
Tax Rate: 35% Federal, xx% State
State of Residence: NY
Age: (His:37)/(Her:32)
Desired Asset allocation: 80% stocks / 20% bonds
Desired International allocation: 25% of stocks

Retirement Account: $375K (His 401K: $20K, His IRA: $230K, Her 401K - $35K, Her IRA: $125K).
Non-retirement Investment Account: $725K ($250K in company stocks, rest sitting as cash)
Un-invested Cash: $250K
Thanks


Nowhere near enough information to generate any useful guidance. What are your goals? Feelings about risk? Future income expectations? Family aspirations? Current savings level (you mention max-funding 401k accounts, but this isn't sufficient given your high income)? Required/desired living expenses? Volatility of each of your industries? Income breakdown between you and spouse?

- DDB
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:20 pm

My apologies if i was unclear earlier. A simpler view of my current situation will be:

1. mostly cash + vested stock options from prev employment = ~ $1MM --> need to move it to a diversified portfolio for retirement
2. value of retirement accounts so far = ~ $375K --> mostly sitting in cash.

So in total, $1.3MM saved for retirement (taxable + non-taxable) with $100K of emergency
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby retiredjg » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:28 pm

n00b, welcome to the forum!

You are really not going to get many helpful suggestions until you post the information needed to actually help you intelligently. Also, please put it all in one place so that people don't have to search through several posts to find something. :D
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:51 pm

Apoligies in advance ... *** consolidating & answering additional questions ***

Current financial situation:
1. mostly cash + vested stock options from prev employment = ~ $1MM --> need to move it to a diversified portfolio for retirement & college education
2. value of retirement accounts so far = ~ $375K --> mostly sitting in cash
3. Maxing out 401K
4. Mortgage $725K @ 2.75% (7/1 ARM) bought in Oct 2012

So in total, $1.3MM saved for retirement (taxable + non-taxable) with $100K of emergency

Current thinking
1. I already have 40% equity in the home and with the mortgage, I hoping to take advantage of the low interest rates. In a perfect world, I would try to payoff the loan in the next 7-10 years
2. In regards to the emergency cash, honestly it's just a ball park figure. Besides the monthly expenses, I have accounted for annual expenses like life insurance, property insurance, intl travel etc
3. 401K's being maxed each yr
4. Combined gross income currently $350K / yr (His: $200K, Her: $150K)
5. Company stocks are from former employment ... fully vested

Investment Goals
What are your goals? Family aspirations? --> save for retirement and ensure good college education for kid
Feelings about risk? --> willing to take risk till kid goes to college
Future income expectations? --> maintain current income till 50, that's when kid goes to college
Current savings level (you mention max-funding 401k accounts, but this isn't sufficient given your high income)? --> "her" salary is additional savings
Required/desired living expenses? --> "his" salary pays the bills and living expenses
Volatility of each of your industries? --> both in mature high-tech compaines
Income breakdown between you and spouse? --> (His: $200K, Her: $150K)

Thanks for taking the time ... appreciate your responses!
Last edited by n00b_to_investing on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby save-early-often » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:54 pm

Just out of curiosity, what lead to the firing of the advisor?
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:06 pm

save-early-often wrote:Just out of curiosity, what lead to the firing of the advisor?


long story but in short they switched firms and the new investment approach was way too complicated
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby JW Nearly Retired » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:33 pm

It's pretty hazy but it appears you have something like $1.4M in savings, mostly cash except for $0.25M in your previous employers stock. Is that about right?

Cash and one stock........ about as undiversified as anyone could imagine. I'm doubting the advisor had anything to do with this.

Question, what are you looking for from us?
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby fishnskiguy » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:56 pm

First the good news. You have about $1.3M in your retirement portfolio at age 37. Good work.

Some folks on this forum might give you some jazz for having such an expensive home. Don't listen to them. In NY, nice homes cost a ton and you can afford it. Just don't go overboard on travel, vacations, cars, jewelry, and kid's private schools.

Do put 25%-30% of your income into your retirement account each year. You can afford it.

At your age and income, 80/20 stock/bond is too risky, IMO. 60/40 is max I would go, with 50/50 my idea of the sweet spot. Can you stomach watching two year's of your total annual income going up in smoke in the next bear market with zero guarantee it will come back? I didn't think so.

Just my thoughts.

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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:02 am

JW Nearly Retired wrote:It's pretty hazy but it appears you have something like $1.4M in savings, mostly cash except for $0.25M in your previous employers stock. Is that about right?

Cash and one stock........ about as undiversified as anyone could imagine. I'm doubting the advisor had anything to do with this.

Question, what are you looking for from us?
JW


they chose to go all cash (fiscal cliff). hope that explains it.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby skibbi9 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:47 am

noob, reading the bogleheads guides are a great first step and won't require too much time/money

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bogleheads-Gu ... 772&sr=8-1
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:05 pm

n00b_to_investing wrote:Apoligies in advance ... *** consolidating & answering additional questions ***

Current financial situation:
1. mostly cash + vested stock options from prev employment = ~ $1MM --> need to move it to a diversified portfolio for retirement & college education
2. value of retirement accounts so far = ~ $375K --> mostly sitting in cash
3. Maxing out 401K
4. Mortgage $725K @ 2.75% (7/1 ARM) bought in Oct 2012

So in total, $1.3MM saved for retirement (taxable + non-taxable) with $100K of emergency

Current thinking
1. I already have 40% equity in the home and with the mortgage, I hoping to take advantage of the low interest rates. In a perfect world, I would try to payoff the loan in the next 7-10 years
2. In regards to the emergency cash, honestly it's just a ball park figure. Besides the monthly expenses, I have accounted for annual expenses like life insurance, property insurance, intl travel etc
3. 401K's being maxed each yr
4. Combined gross income currently $350K / yr (His: $200K, Her: $150K)
5. Company stocks are from former employment ... fully vested

Investment Goals
What are your goals? Family aspirations? --> save for retirement and ensure good college education for kid
Feelings about risk? --> willing to take risk till kid goes to college
Future income expectations? --> maintain current income till 50, that's when kid goes to college
Current savings level (you mention max-funding 401k accounts, but this isn't sufficient given your high income)? --> "her" salary is additional savings
Required/desired living expenses? --> "his" salary pays the bills and living expenses
Volatility of each of your industries? --> both in mature high-tech compaines
Income breakdown between you and spouse? --> (His: $200K, Her: $150K)

Thanks for taking the time ... appreciate your responses!


bump
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:20 pm

You're bumping your post. What you haven't said is what is the asset allocation you and your husband would be most comfortable with. Until then, I can't see how anyone can provide you with a suggested portfolio that will meet your needs. Livesoft gave same great advice - have you used the Vanguard tool on fund suggestions based on your inputs? Try it, then come back and post your results. A diversified well thought out plan does not require 8 funds, it can be as simple as 1,3 or 5 depending on how much time you'd like to devote to managing your own money.

If part of the $1MM is for college only - you could do a five year averaging and contribute up to $140K in one lump sum - but if your child is not inclined to go to college or vocational, then a 529 plan may not be suitable. Have you looked at the NYS 529 Direct plan - low cost, can deduct up to $10K in contributions on your NYS tax return per year (that's a help with your 9% tax rate - ouch!).

Are you paying AMT today? I believe you likely are given your tax rate and income, likely paying high property taxes as well.

The remainder of the funds - you have to pick your allocations, as I described above. Then come back and post, we will walk you through a simple or slightly more advanced plan (Livesofts frosting on the cake).

How much does your employer match in the 401k? Can you list the investment options in the retirement plans - by name (not symbol) and the expense ratio?
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby retiredjg » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:31 pm

n00b_to_investing wrote:bump

I assume you bumped your post up because you are hoping to get more help. As I said in an earlier post, we can't really help you without the needed information.

You have included some information, but it is all over the place. That makes it difficult for people to find what they are looking for and it makes it easy for something important to be overlooked. This means the answers you get may or may not be reliable.

There is also information missing. For example, how can we suggest what to hold in His 401k and Her 401k if we don't know what is available? How can we suggest funds for the IRAs without knowing where the IRAs are located or how many there are or if you are willing to move them? How much do you plan to save each year? What accounts will the money be going to?

There is a format that we use that really helps to get the pertinent information all in one spot. You will get more help if you use it and the help you get will be more reliable. See the link below called "Asking Portfolio Questions". You will learn a lot gathering the info and posting it in an organized manner. You can either edit your original post or you can start over if you wish.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby n00b_to_investing » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:10 pm

retiredjg wrote:
n00b_to_investing wrote:bump

I assume you bumped your post up because you are hoping to get more help. As I said in an earlier post, we can't really help you without the needed information.

You have included some information, but it is all over the place. That makes it difficult for people to find what they are looking for and it makes it easy for something important to be overlooked. This means the answers you get may or may not be reliable.

There is also information missing. For example, how can we suggest what to hold in His 401k and Her 401k if we don't know what is available? How can we suggest funds for the IRAs without knowing where the IRAs are located or how many there are or if you are willing to move them? How much do you plan to save each year? What accounts will the money be going to?

There is a format that we use that really helps to get the pertinent information all in one spot. You will get more help if you use it and the help you get will be more reliable. See the link below called "Asking Portfolio Questions". You will learn a lot gathering the info and posting it in an organized manner. You can either edit your original post or you can start over if you wish.


Thank you all for your suggestions. Been busy at work. Will update the post as per suggestions
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby Shireman28 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:29 pm

You have $725,000 adjustable rate mortgage.

This is a 10K a month payment right now, could double if interest rates get back to median historical levels.

You want to use this adjustable rate debt as leverage to invest for retirement, during a period when the stock market is at an all time high and bonds and money markets pay less than your adjustable interest rate. So if interest rates go up your bonds lose value and your payments increase.

Why not pay this off (or down aggressively) and virtually dollar cost average the 10K a month payment into the market for the next 10 years?

This seems like a lot less risky plan than what you are doing.

Personally I would need tenured jobs and guaranteed perfect health to do this plan you are asking people to create.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby Clivus1 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:48 pm

My life situation is similar to yours, so I'll share my thoughts.

Paying down your mortgage is silly. The only argument for this is psychological security (which is likely false). Interest rates are at historic lows. Your mortgage interest is tax deductible, this makes the true cost of capital even lower. You have significant equity and cash savings larger than the mortgage balance. What is a stronger position in 15 years - mortgage paid off or low interest debt with an additional cash account containing more than the balance of the mortgage? Call PenFed and get a 15 or 30 year fixed mortgage. There is no modern 20 year period where this strategy fails at today's low rates.

From an investment perspective it is easy. Call Vanguard and tell them you want to be a flagship client. You will be assigned a personal representative and have access to all the professional planning you need. This planning is free to flagship clients. The compensation of the Vanguard advisers is not tied to your investments, which is a nice plus. I had several fee only advisers prior to moving to Vanguard and have been very happy since making the move.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby Shireman28 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:28 am

I get what Clivus is saying, but borrowing adjustable rate money to invest a big chunk in bonds paying less than your "low cost of capital" and having interest rate risk on top of it seems really dumb.

At a minimum, I'd rather call the giant mortgage your bond-like portion and invest that bond portion into paying down debt.

But it's your life and maybe your business will always be great and you and your wife will always make the income your are currently making.

The value of de-risking your life is worth more than a few percentage points you might make over top of a mortgage in stocks and a $8k tax break.
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Re: *fired my advisor* need help with investments

Postby nedsaid » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:13 am

You need a written investment policy statement. There is a good sample at the Morningstar web site. You need this because it really helps to "know thyself" as an investor. Get a plan, Stan. Write things down.

What are your financial goals? Shorter term and long term.
What is your desired asset allocation?
How much risk can you take? A better way to ask this question is how much can you stand to see your portfolio drop in value? Most people don't know their risk tolerance until they have been through a bear market. Hint: It is usually lower than you think it is.
How are you measuring the performance of your portfolio? What benchmarks are you using?
What is your investment strategy?

If you have a good plan and a good strategy written down, the odds for sticking to that plan when times get tough are much better. You don't want to do what a lot of people do: that is invest on emotion and end up buying high and selling low. If you don't have a plan, you might find yourself doing just that.

Successful investing is pretty much consistent saving, emotional control (not doing stupid things when things look bad), and good asset allocation.
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