WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

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WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby BetaBreaker » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:59 am

Just wondering ... has Wells Fargo's self-directed brokerage service changed? I read somewhere that they're consolidating under the Wells Fargo Advisors umbrella, but does that mean no more commission free ETF trades? Hope everything is still a "good deal" over there ...
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Default User BR » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:50 am

BetaBreaker wrote:Just wondering ... has Wells Fargo's self-directed brokerage service changed? I read somewhere that they're consolidating under the Wells Fargo Advisors umbrella, but does that mean no more commission free ETF trades? Hope everything is still a "good deal" over there ...

Where did you read it? Quite a long time ago they did a consolidation. I haven't seen anything new.


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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:30 pm

Nothing has changed, but this thread reminded me to fill out the survey they sent me. The questions indicate that they are looking into improving their online interface and whether to offer more "advisory" services. Hopefully the survey results will encourage them to maintain the status quo as far as their unobtrusiveness is concerned.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby livesoft » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:38 pm

^ Please tell them they need to add an "Exchange shares" option to the Mutual fund buy/sell dialog, so that one doesn't have to call them up to go from shares in fund A to shares in fund B in the same transaction.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:05 pm

Hm that's a good suggestion, but it was an online survey, so it's too late to go back. That one didn't occur to me because I only have one mutual fund with them (which I acquired earlier this month). I did suggest that they work on a way to do traditional to Roth IRA rollovers online (like Schwab). That's my biggest gripe with them. Fortunately, it only happens once a year.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby PaddyMac » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:32 am

OP may be thinking of the switch they made about a year ago. It didn't change anything for self-directed accounts. I don't think they are that stupid.

Although I saw that the minimum amount to avoid all fees is now $50K (it was only $25K).

I wish they would make it easier to save money into a SEP-IRA online. I can do everything except that.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby downshiftme » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:49 am

They changed the name under which the former WellsTrade services were provided, and there is sometimes confusion about the Advisor's name. The minimum is changed for new accounts but some old accounts appear to be grandfathered with the old minimums, although some people report this is not consistent. Some kinds of online transfers between brokerage and bank are now disallowed and have to be done manually, but I suspect that is a computer problem introduced about the same time, not a deliberate policy change. I think they know they would see a large outflow if they removed the self-directed services.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:34 pm

downshiftme wrote:Some kinds of online transfers between brokerage and bank are now disallowed and have to be done manually, but I suspect that is a computer problem introduced about the same time, not a deliberate policy change.


Like what?
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:51 pm

According to a poster on FatWallet who spoke with his banker, WF will no longer offer the PMA package as we currently know it beginning April 1, though current accounts will maintain their T&Cs. Until someone posts documentation, I would regard this as a rumor. But nevertheless something to watch:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1247584/
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:21 pm

The new policy change is detailed in an insert to the December statement:

Effective April 1, 2013, the PMA® Package pricing benefit is changing only for
WellsTrade accounts newly linked to a PMA Package. Pricing benefits for
WellsTrade brokerage accounts linked to a PMA Package before April 1, 2013 will
remain unchanged.
WellsTrade® brokerage accounts linked on or after April 1, 2013 will not receive
100 commission-free online trades per year. A special rate of $6.95 per transaction
will apply for online and automated telephone trading commissions for Stocks
(excluding Penny Stocks) and Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs).
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:05 pm

Cash wrote:The new policy change is detailed in an insert to the December statement:

Effective April 1, 2013, the PMA® Package pricing benefit is changing only for
WellsTrade accounts newly linked to a PMA Package. Pricing benefits for
WellsTrade brokerage accounts linked to a PMA Package before April 1, 2013 will
remain unchanged.
WellsTrade® brokerage accounts linked on or after April 1, 2013 will not receive
100 commission-free online trades per year. A special rate of $6.95 per transaction
will apply for online and automated telephone trading commissions for Stocks
(excluding Penny Stocks) and Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs).



Is this a pre April Fools joke! With no free trades thats going to kill I would think many new accounts. On the bright side with any new account owners paying $6.95/trade I hope they can generate enought cash to make an exhange option from fund A to B without a phone call!
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby livesoft » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:08 pm

I was a WellsTrade customer before there were free trades. I really feel like I've been grandfathered now.

As for new accounts, WellsFargo does not advertise this platform anyways, so they have not been worried about new customers. As is it, I can imagine the Senior Executive Vice President for the investing Sales Reps duking it out with the Senior Executive Vice President for WellsTrade in corporate meetings. Each one would have to prove how their Division benefits Shareholders. One of them should be able to tell the CEO who captured the most Assets Under Management in the past year per net cost.
Last edited by livesoft on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:11 pm

livesoft wrote:I was a WellsTrade customer before there were free trades. I really feel like I've been grandfathered now.


I'm surprised they upgraded you for free :wink: Be carful, they may bump you back to second class and you can pay your old trade fees!
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:14 pm

Now I have to question if our new Roth that we just opened became part of our existing PMA package, see no reason why not. We don't have a taxable account there yet either, maybe be time to open one!
Last edited by Jay69 on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby downshiftme » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:15 pm

downshiftme wrote:Some kinds of online transfers between brokerage and bank are now disallowed and have to be done manually, but I suspect that is a computer problem introduced about the same time, not a deliberate policy change.



Like what?


I have had issues with transfers between linked accounts that have owners who are minors or UTMA for those minors. Even if the registration is identical between the affected accounts. These are transfers that used to be available online (I know because I did some and can see them in my account history) but now require phone calls. I can still see all the accounts, but certain combinations of transfers are no longer available in the online system.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:26 pm

I may be having this issue now with our TIRAs. Previously I could transfer from checking online, but so far have not been able to do so.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby BogleDave » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:27 pm

Cash wrote:The new policy change is detailed in an insert to the December statement:

Effective April 1, 2013, the PMA® Package pricing benefit is changing only for
WellsTrade accounts newly linked to a PMA Package. Pricing benefits for
WellsTrade brokerage accounts linked to a PMA Package before April 1, 2013 will
remain unchanged.
WellsTrade® brokerage accounts linked on or after April 1, 2013 will not receive
100 commission-free online trades per year. A special rate of $6.95 per transaction
will apply for online and automated telephone trading commissions for Stocks
(excluding Penny Stocks) and Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs).

On p.2 of the insert, there is a new commissions schedule which suggests that mutual fund trades for non-NTF no-load funds will now be $35. Those of us who already have accounts do not seem to be "grandfathered" for free trading of these funds. (I do very little fund trading but do I recall correctly this service was free before these changes?) I hold a couple of Bridgway funds within my WellsTrade account for which I assume I will now have to pay this fee when I sell.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:29 pm

Jay69 wrote:
Cash wrote:The new policy change is detailed in an insert to the December statement:

Effective April 1, 2013, the PMA® Package pricing benefit is changing only for
WellsTrade accounts newly linked to a PMA Package. Pricing benefits for
WellsTrade brokerage accounts linked to a PMA Package before April 1, 2013 will
remain unchanged.
WellsTrade® brokerage accounts linked on or after April 1, 2013 will not receive
100 commission-free online trades per year. A special rate of $6.95 per transaction
will apply for online and automated telephone trading commissions for Stocks
(excluding Penny Stocks) and Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs).



Is this a pre April Fools joke! With no free trades thats going to kill I would think many new accounts. On the bright side with any new account owners paying $6.95/trade I hope they can generate enought cash to make an exhange option from fund A to B without a phone call!


Lol. Yeah hopefully the new people paying fees will subsidize the rest of us. But this might be the beginning of the end...
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:34 pm

BogleDave wrote:On p.2 of the insert, there is a new commissions schedule which suggests that mutual fund trades for non-NTF no-load funds will now be $35. Those of us who already have accounts do not seem to be "grandfathered" for free trading of these funds. (I do very little fund trading but do I recall correctly this service was free before these changes?) I hold a couple of Bridgway funds within my WellsTrade account for which I assume I will now have to pay this fee when I sell.


I just did a trade and they noted a $35 trade fee but then noted it would be wavied, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=108035
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:35 pm

Cash wrote:I may be having this issue now with our TIRAs. Previously I could transfer from checking online, but so far have not been able to do so.


I did 2 transfers today from savings to 2 rIRA's no issues.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby BogleDave » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:41 pm

Jay69 wrote:
BogleDave wrote:On p.2 of the insert, there is a new commissions schedule which suggests that mutual fund trades for non-NTF no-load funds will now be $35. Those of us who already have accounts do not seem to be "grandfathered" for free trading of these funds. (I do very little fund trading but do I recall correctly this service was free before these changes?) I hold a couple of Bridgway funds within my WellsTrade account for which I assume I will now have to pay this fee when I sell.


I just did a trade and they noted a $35 trade fee but then noted it would be wavied, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=108035

The new commission schedule on p.2 of the insert says that the fees are effective 4/1/13 and the insert has no language in this section differentiating between old and new accounts. So I think it's questionable whether our free fund trades will continue after 4/1.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:47 pm

BogleDave wrote:
Jay69 wrote:The new commission schedule on p.2 of the insert says that the fees are effective 4/1/13 and the insert has no language in this section differentiating between old and new accounts. So I think it's questionable whether our free fund trades will continue after 4/1.


If they indeed do take them away I think I would bark a little at paying an exit fee to move, that much I know. I don't have the insert as I don't get a paper statement, I need to check online.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:58 pm

BogleDave wrote:
Jay69 wrote:
BogleDave wrote:On p.2 of the insert, there is a new commissions schedule which suggests that mutual fund trades for non-NTF no-load funds will now be $35. Those of us who already have accounts do not seem to be "grandfathered" for free trading of these funds. (I do very little fund trading but do I recall correctly this service was free before these changes?) I hold a couple of Bridgway funds within my WellsTrade account for which I assume I will now have to pay this fee when I sell.


I just did a trade and they noted a $35 trade fee but then noted it would be wavied, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=108035

The new commission schedule on p.2 of the insert says that the fees are effective 4/1/13 and the insert has no language in this section differentiating between old and new accounts. So I think it's questionable whether our free fund trades will continue after 4/1.


ok, found the insert. I think this covers us exisitng people, unchanged as far as I can tell, still free trades. Same as Cash noted above.

Effective April 1, 2013, the PMA® Package pricing benefit is changing only for
WellsTrade accounts newly linked to a PMA Package. Pricing benefits for
WellsTrade brokerage accounts linked to a PMA Package before April 1, 2013 will
remain unchanged.
WellsTrade® brokerage accounts linked on or after April 1, 2013 will not receive
100 commission-free online trades per year. A special rate of $6.95 per transaction
will apply for online and automated telephone trading commissions for Stocks
(excluding Penny Stocks) and Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs).
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby BogleDave » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:47 pm

Jay69 wrote:
ok, found the insert. I think this covers us exisitng people, unchanged as far as I can tell, still free trades. Same as Cash noted above.

Effective April 1, 2013, the PMA® Package pricing benefit is changing only for
WellsTrade accounts newly linked to a PMA Package. Pricing benefits for
WellsTrade brokerage accounts linked to a PMA Package before April 1, 2013 will
remain unchanged.
WellsTrade® brokerage accounts linked on or after April 1, 2013 will not receive
100 commission-free online trades per year. A special rate of $6.95 per transaction
will apply for online and automated telephone trading commissions for Stocks
(excluding Penny Stocks) and Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs).

Jay69: I think you're right. I was viewing the commission schedule on p.2 separately from the grandfathering language on p.1. But it makes more sense to read them together. Thanks for clarifying.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby KarlJ » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:36 pm

It seems to me that Wells Fargo statements regarding the PMA Package are unnecessarily unclear. In recent months, major changes to the PMA Package have been presented in obtuse language requiring long discussions to ferret out the meaning. I had 5 great years with the PMA Package, but it seems to me that Wells Fargo is trying to slowly kill it off.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:14 am

KarlJ wrote:it seems to me that Wells Fargo is trying to slowly kill it off.


This change in pricing strategy makes at least that much clear. They are saying that, regardless of how much someone keeps at the bank, they will no longer offer free trades to new accounts. The only question is how long before they cut it off for the "grandfathered" people. I am planning to hold on for as long as possible and hope that VBS improves its infrastructure in the interim.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:18 am

Cash wrote:
KarlJ wrote:it seems to me that Wells Fargo is trying to slowly kill it off.


This change in pricing strategy makes at least that much clear. They are saying that, regardless of how much someone keeps at the bank, they will no longer offer free trades to new accounts. The only question is how long before they cut it off for the "grandfathered" people. I am planning to hold on for as long as possible and hope that VBS improves its infrastructure in the interim.



This is my thought as well, if they do add a trading fee I would think thats a good enough reason to not pay the exit fee as well.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Getting Serious » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:44 pm

I realize this may just come down to speculation, but I'd be interested in hearing whether these changes would be enough to sway people from moving a rollover 401k to Wellsfargo, and instead going to VBR. Granted, I could complete the move prior to April 2013, and I already have several other accounts with Wells that would seem to be grandfathered in. I'm just somewhat concerned that WF is heading down a slippery slope, and that I'll be left paying an annoying fee if I decide enough is enough. For reference, I would expect to make between 4 and 10 trades a year in the account. Also, I do invest in some assets that I don't think are available on VBR, although I could move some things around in my other WF accounts.

Thanks for your thoughts!
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby livesoft » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:51 pm

VBR? Small-cap value index ETF?

My spouse rolled over her 401(k) to TDAmeritrade because of the $1,000 bonus. We already had an account there. Our IRAs were there many years ago before we rolled them over to WellsTrade PMA.

Anyways, there are so many better choices than VBS. WellsFargo PMA is one of them. I would not be swayed until WF started charging more than $5 a trade. But then again, we make very few trades a year. So I can see WF doing things slowly: 1. No free mutual fund trades. 2. Fewer free trades, say 12 per year. 3. Higher account minimums. 4. ....
Last edited by livesoft on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby grok87 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:59 pm

Well I for one am very glad I never jumped on the wells fargo PMA brokerage bandwagon. Just another bait and switch operation from a sleazy bank.
Alignment of interests is key. Stick to Vanguard or credit unions for that.

viewtopic.php?t=67727

cheers,
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby pkcrafter » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:05 am

grok87 wrote:Well I for one am very glad I never jumped on the wells fargo PMA brokerage bandwagon. Just another bait and switch operation from a sleazy bank.
Alignment of interests is key. Stick to Vanguard or credit unions for that.

cheers,


+1

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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Default User BR » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:05 am

grok87 wrote:Well I for one am very glad I never jumped on the wells fargo PMA brokerage bandwagon. Just another bait and switch operation from a sleazy bank.

They had the free trades for at least five years, and still have it grandfathered for current customers. Hardly bait and switch.


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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby livesoft » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:47 am

We did a bait-and-switch on WellsFargo. They probably assumed we would rollover IRA money to them. Instead we went to a place that provided a bonus.

I am amused by the animosity. Perhaps these pious folks would never use a cash-back credit card or a high-interest rate online savings account or a 0%-interest no-fee cash-advance. Or heaven forbid, what happened to Vanguard Prime Money Market? They baited us with 5% yields years ago and now the yield is ... let me check ... 0.02%! We don't see any posts saying "Stick with Prime Money Market!"

Admit it, your credit card rebates have changed over time. Your savings account interest rates have changed over time. Vanguard even raised expense ratios on a few funds. Was that bait-and-switch?

I think we all take deals when we see them. Is there any reason to stop doing that?
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Cash » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:46 am

livesoft wrote:So I can see WF doing things slowly: 1. No free mutual fund trades. 2. Fewer free trades, say 12 per year. 3. Higher account minimums. 4. ....


That's what I thought they would do as an overall strategy. But since the overall strategy skipped those steps and jumped to $6.95/trade, I don't see them gradually phasing out those who were grandfathered in. I wonder what makes a similar arrangement profitable for BOA (assuming they don't eliminate theirs after the news) and not for WF.

But like you, I have no animosity. It's just how the game is played. When they phase us grandfathered folk out (and they will...I have yet to see a major bank keep a separate tier of legacy people around for long), then I will just find the next-best deal. Or I may just decide to go with VBS. Aside from dividend reporting, was there anything else that you disliked about VBS?
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby indexfundfan » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:39 pm

The problem is that Wells Fargo keeps raising the bar for people who wants to leave. The exit fee has been raised a few times within the last 5 years. Most people leaving would have to pay the exit fee unless they jump through some hoops (loopholes) to avoid it.

Generally, rebate credit cards, high-yield savings account or the prime money market do not impose exit fees.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Default User BR » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:38 pm

indexfundfan wrote:The problem is that Wells Fargo keeps raising the bar for people who wants to leave. The exit fee has been raised a few times within the last 5 years. Most people leaving would have to pay the exit fee unless they jump through some hoops (loopholes) to avoid it.

So? Most custodians (not Vanguard) will be more than happy to pay the exit fee or more to get your business. Again, it's part of the deal. And again, Wells Fargo has not ended the program for existing customers. It's not known when and how it might be modified for them. Anything else is speculation.

Like Livesoft says, "deals" change all the time. For all you know Vanguard could institute account transfer/closing fees tomorrow. In a way I'm surprised they don't already. Right now one can buy funds or ETFs at Vanguard for no fees and transfer to another custodian.


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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby BogleDave » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:54 am

indexfundfan wrote:The problem is that Wells Fargo keeps raising the bar for people who wants to leave. The exit fee has been raised a few times within the last 5 years. Most people leaving would have to pay the exit fee unless they jump through some hoops (loopholes) to avoid it.

Generally, rebate credit cards, high-yield savings account or the prime money market do not impose exit fees.

I would be interested in knowing how to avoid the exit fee, which I think is $95 at this point. In retrospect, I just don't make enough trades to make the free trading feature very valuable to me. And now I'm dealing with the dormant checking account issue. My checking account literally disappeared from their website despite the fact that I have a monthly auto-draft set up to avoid this very problem.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby ksc » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:05 am

BogleDave wrote:
indexfundfan wrote:The problem is that Wells Fargo keeps raising the bar for people who wants to leave. The exit fee has been raised a few times within the last 5 years. Most people leaving would have to pay the exit fee unless they jump through some hoops (loopholes) to avoid it.

Generally, rebate credit cards, high-yield savings account or the prime money market do not impose exit fees.

I would be interested in knowing how to avoid the exit fee, which I think is $95 at this point. In retrospect, I just don't make enough trades to make the free trading feature very valuable to me. And now I'm dealing with the dormant checking account issue. My checking account literally disappeared from their website despite the fact that I have a monthly auto-draft set up to avoid this very problem.


I also would be interested in knowing how to avoid the exit fee.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby tfb » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:43 pm

BogleDave wrote:I would be interested in knowing how to avoid the exit fee, which I think is $95 at this point. In retrospect, I just don't make enough trades to make the free trading feature very valuable to me. And now I'm dealing with the dormant checking account issue. My checking account literally disappeared from their website despite the fact that I have a monthly auto-draft set up to avoid this very problem.

Your next broker will pay you to welcome your business there. There are plenty to choose from, all paying more than $95; some pay as much as $1,000. Vanguard isn't one of them. It's not a good broker anyway.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Default User BR » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:15 pm

BogleDave wrote:And now I'm dealing with the dormant checking account issue. My checking account literally disappeared from their website despite the fact that I have a monthly auto-draft set up to avoid this very problem.

That doesn't do it. See: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48415


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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby indexfundfan » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:54 am

ksc wrote:
BogleDave wrote:
indexfundfan wrote:The problem is that Wells Fargo keeps raising the bar for people who wants to leave. The exit fee has been raised a few times within the last 5 years. Most people leaving would have to pay the exit fee unless they jump through some hoops (loopholes) to avoid it.

Generally, rebate credit cards, high-yield savings account or the prime money market do not impose exit fees.

I would be interested in knowing how to avoid the exit fee, which I think is $95 at this point. In retrospect, I just don't make enough trades to make the free trading feature very valuable to me. And now I'm dealing with the dormant checking account issue. My checking account literally disappeared from their website despite the fact that I have a monthly auto-draft set up to avoid this very problem.


I also would be interested in knowing how to avoid the exit fee.

OK, here are some hoops that I can think of or have heard from people who have done it:

1. If it is an IRA, instead of doing an asset transfer, take a distribution in cash and rollover the money over yourself. You might still have to pay an IRA termination fee, but not the full ACAT transfer out fee. Pitfalls: beware of the 60-day period, Wells Fargo might withhold money for the IRS which you need to topup yourself, your money is out of the market during the rollover period. Do your own research before attempting this.

2. Sometimes, when firms changes its terms, it might provide an OUT, in fine print, for clients who don't agree to the new terms. You need to watch for these, and make sure you follow the instructions to its letter, including meeting the time limit specified.

3. A partial transfer might cost you less. This will take more of your time to plan the exit from Wells Fargo.

As you can see, I wouldn't call these hoops a walk in the park. When I exited Wells Fargo, I paid the exit fee and consider it as the commission for the free trades I had used. Now I just stick to the free trades offered by Vanguard brokerage and worry less about watching for terms & conditions changes.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby livesoft » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:25 am

BoA/MerrillEdge is offering a cash bonus if you switch to them. Also their terms appeared to have changed, so if you have at least $50,000 combined with them, then you do not need to keep $25,000 in cash. Has anybody gotten the cash bonus yet?

As a public service to Bogleheads, I might open a new account with them.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby indexfundfan » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:25 pm

livesoft wrote:BoA/MerrillEdge is offering a cash bonus if you switch to them. Also their terms appeared to have changed, so if you have at least $50,000 combined with them, then you do not need to keep $25,000 in cash. Has anybody gotten the cash bonus yet?

As a public service to Bogleheads, I might open a new account with them.

Here's the terms for MerrillEdge

Qualify for 30 commission-free online equity and ETF trades per month when you: have a balance of $25,000 in your Bank of America deposit accounts, or have $25,000 in cash in your Merrill Edge self-directed accounts, or maintain Platinum Privileges® status.

Seems like you still need $25k in cash deposit or $25k cash in the brokerage for free trades. It's not immediately clear what is need to qualify for Platinum Privileges.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby tfb » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:00 pm

indexfundfan wrote:It's not immediately clear what is need to qualify for Platinum Privileges.

http://www.merrilledge.com/platinum-privileges

How to qualify
You automatically enjoy status in the Platinum Privileges® program if you have an active Bank of America personal checking account and maintain at least $50,000 as a combined balance in your Bank of America deposit accounts and/or your Merrill Edge brokerage accounts.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby livesoft » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:21 pm

From a sales & marketing perspective, it is interesting to see these 2 big banks fight it out.

Perhaps WF believes they have captured all accounts that they will capture or need to capture. With their changes, they seem to be bent on "retaining" accounts, but not getting new ones. The new WF deal doesn't affect existing account holders, so it is not a raise in fees that will have to be rescinded. Such raises and backtracking have already been well publicized for some bank fees.

I imagine that BoA/MerrillEdge folks will not be reading this thread, but did any MerrillEdge folks take advantage of the free $600?
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Default User BR » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:22 pm

indexfundfan wrote:1. If it is an IRA, instead of doing an asset transfer, take a distribution in cash and rollover the money over yourself. You might still have to pay an IRA termination fee, but not the full ACAT transfer out fee.

At Wells Fargo, if you are taking a distribution from an IRA they will take the full fee out unless you leave at least $95 (the closing fee). I know this because initially they were going to do that when I was converting a TIRA to a Roth. When I pointed out that it was staying in-house, they waived that.


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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Default User BR » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:24 pm

livesoft wrote:Perhaps WF believes they have captured all accounts that they will capture or need to capture. With their changes, they seem to be bent on "retaining" accounts, but not getting new ones. The new WF deal doesn't affect existing account holders, so it is not a raise in fees that will have to be rescinded. Such raises and backtracking have already been well publicized for some bank fees.

With a lot of the brokerages giving bonuses, perhaps it's a way say, "Yes, you can leave for the $XXX, but you won't be able to come back and get the old deal later."


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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Default User BR » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:26 pm

livesoft wrote:BoA/MerrillEdge is offering a cash bonus if you switch to them. Also their terms appeared to have changed, so if you have at least $50,000 combined with them, then you do not need to keep $25,000 in cash. Has anybody gotten the cash bonus yet?

Interesting. I had not considered them before, as their bonus wasn't as good as some of the others. Something to keep in mind.


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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby natureexplorer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:34 pm

livesoft wrote:^ Please tell them they need to add an "Exchange shares" option to the Mutual fund buy/sell dialog, so that one doesn't have to call them up to go from shares in fund A to shares in fund B in the same transaction.
Last time I checked, even over the phone that wasn't possible. "Different reps giving different answers" story.

I believe Vanguard Admiral funds still have the $100k minimum, despite Vanguard having lowered it to $50k.
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Re: WellsTrade Changing Its Tune?

Postby Jay69 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:19 pm

natureexplorer wrote:
livesoft wrote:^ Please tell them they need to add an "Exchange shares" option to the Mutual fund buy/sell dialog, so that one doesn't have to call them up to go from shares in fund A to shares in fund B in the same transaction.
Last time I checked, even over the phone that wasn't possible. "Different reps giving different answers" story.

I believe Vanguard Admiral funds still have the $100k minimum, despite Vanguard having lowered it to $50k.


I checked a week or so ago and the rep stated that you can do and exchange over the phone, I did not try however. In Regards to Admiral shares at WellTrade many of us use the Signal Shares, same ER's as Admiral but no minimums, for the core funds that is.
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