Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

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Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby MrBrainwash » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:49 pm

I have a 401k from a previous employer, held at Schwab. I would like to roll it over to an IRA at Vanguard.

I went through the Vanguard account creation process on the web, and have created a Rollover IRA at Vanguard. Schwab will either mail me a check or do the rollover via wire transfer. Will Vanguard accept a wire transfer?

This page on the Vanguard website says:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/whatweoffer/accountservices/wiretransfer

You can't contribute to an IRA by wire. However, wires are accepted for direct rollovers and asset transfers.


But I called Vanguard, and the guy I talked to claimed that I have to mail them a check. I asked if I could do a wire transfer, but he just kept saying I have to mail a check. I'm not sure that he knows what he is talking about.

Has anyone rolled over a 401k to Vanguard via wire transfer?
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby Alan S. » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:07 pm

The page clearly indicates a wire transfer is acceptable for a direct rollover. This would be a direct rollover. Did the rep clearly understand that?

I have not done a wire transfer to Vanguard, but I would give heavy odds that the web page is correct and the rep is incorrect or misunderstood.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby MrBrainwash » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:15 pm

Alan S. wrote:The page clearly indicates a wire transfer is acceptable for a direct rollover. This would be a direct rollover. Did the rep clearly understand that?


I didn't mention the web page, because I'm not sure how to get to that page from the Vanguard site. I only found it through a Google search, so it's possible that it is outdated, or only for brokerage accounts, etc.

I'm going to call back tomorrow and see if I get a different rep with a different answer. If they still claim they can't do the wire transfer, then I'll push back with the web page.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby Default User BR » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:16 pm

MrBrainwash wrote:I didn't mention the web page, because I'm not sure how to get to that page from the Vanguard site. I only found it through a Google search, so it's possible that it is outdated, or only for brokerage accounts, etc.

From the main page, use the pulldown What We Offer to select Account services. That page has a link:

Incoming wires » https://personal.vanguard.com/us/whatweoffer/accountservices/wiretransfer


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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby FabLab » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:31 pm

MrBrainwash,

Take a careful look at this link, as I think it should answer your questions:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/whatweoffer/rollover

I know you referenced this too, but it points you to the Concierge Services folk, etc. They are usually quite helpful.

Cheers
Last edited by FabLab on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby FrugalInvestor » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:32 pm

I would recommend that you do a direct custodian to custodian rollover and let the two of them worry about how it's done. This also negates the possibility of penalties should you mishandle the funds.

You should be able to fill out the paperwork with Vanguard and then just let them handle it from there.

The rep may have thought that you were already in possession of the funds.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby Easy Rhino » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:21 pm

do you plan on liquidating funds in the old account and transferring in cash?

While having a check in transit may mean you have a week or two out of the market, I'd probably take the path of least resistance.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby dbr » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:47 pm

FrugalInvestor wrote:I would recommend that you do a direct custodian to custodian rollover and let the two of them worry about how it's done. This also negates the possibility of penalties should you mishandle the funds.

You should be able to fill out the paperwork with Vanguard and then just let them handle it from there.

The rep may have thought that you were already in possession of the funds.


I also wonder if this process may have been overlooked. It shouldn't come to a check or a wire transfer. I have sometimes moved securities (not IRA) from one broker to another by starting an authorization at the receiving broker and nothing else needed. The IRA custodian to custodian transfer should not require more just starting at Vanguard.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby tfb » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:32 pm

dbr wrote:
FrugalInvestor wrote:I would recommend that you do a direct custodian to custodian rollover and let the two of them worry about how it's done. This also negates the possibility of penalties should you mishandle the funds.

You should be able to fill out the paperwork with Vanguard and then just let them handle it from there.

The rep may have thought that you were already in possession of the funds.


I also wonder if this process may have been overlooked. It shouldn't come to a check or a wire transfer. I have sometimes moved securities (not IRA) from one broker to another by starting an authorization at the receiving broker and nothing else needed. The IRA custodian to custodian transfer should not require more just starting at Vanguard.

The OP is rolling over a 401k, not IRA. Unless the rollover is done at the same institution (Schwab to Schwab), 401k plans typically don't do in-kind transfers, but rather sell everything and distribute in cash. Therefore it will either be a check or a wire.

It sounds like Vanguard didn't train this rep well. The OP will have to try his luck for a better rep.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby FrugalInvestor » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:41 pm

tfb wrote:
dbr wrote:
FrugalInvestor wrote:I would recommend that you do a direct custodian to custodian rollover and let the two of them worry about how it's done. This also negates the possibility of penalties should you mishandle the funds.

You should be able to fill out the paperwork with Vanguard and then just let them handle it from there.

The rep may have thought that you were already in possession of the funds.


I also wonder if this process may have been overlooked. It shouldn't come to a check or a wire transfer. I have sometimes moved securities (not IRA) from one broker to another by starting an authorization at the receiving broker and nothing else needed. The IRA custodian to custodian transfer should not require more just starting at Vanguard.


The OP is rolling over a 401k, not IRA. Unless the rollover is done at the same institution (Schwab to Schwab), 401k plans typically don't do in-kind transfers, but rather sell everything and distribute in cash. Therefore it will either be a check or a wire.

It sounds like Vanguard didn't train this rep well. The OP will have to try his luck for a better rep.


I have done a employer 401(k) to Vanguard IRA custodian to custodian rollover but perhaps my 401(k) plan was atypical.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby jjbiv » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:50 pm

FrugalInvestor wrote:
tfb wrote:
dbr wrote:
FrugalInvestor wrote:I would recommend that you do a direct custodian to custodian rollover and let the two of them worry about how it's done. This also negates the possibility of penalties should you mishandle the funds.

You should be able to fill out the paperwork with Vanguard and then just let them handle it from there.

The rep may have thought that you were already in possession of the funds.


I also wonder if this process may have been overlooked. It shouldn't come to a check or a wire transfer. I have sometimes moved securities (not IRA) from one broker to another by starting an authorization at the receiving broker and nothing else needed. The IRA custodian to custodian transfer should not require more just starting at Vanguard.


The OP is rolling over a 401k, not IRA. Unless the rollover is done at the same institution (Schwab to Schwab), 401k plans typically don't do in-kind transfers, but rather sell everything and distribute in cash. Therefore it will either be a check or a wire.

It sounds like Vanguard didn't train this rep well. The OP will have to try his luck for a better rep.


I have done a employer 401(k) to Vanguard IRA custodian to custodian rollover but perhaps my 401(k) plan was atypical.


Did you transfer securities directly between custodians or did you liquidate your 401k securities and transfer in cash to your new IRA custodian? I believe tfb was talking about directly transferring securities.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby FrugalInvestor » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:02 pm

jjbiv wrote:
FrugalInvestor wrote:
tfb wrote:
dbr wrote:
FrugalInvestor wrote:I would recommend that you do a direct custodian to custodian rollover and let the two of them worry about how it's done. This also negates the possibility of penalties should you mishandle the funds.

You should be able to fill out the paperwork with Vanguard and then just let them handle it from there.

The rep may have thought that you were already in possession of the funds.


I also wonder if this process may have been overlooked. It shouldn't come to a check or a wire transfer. I have sometimes moved securities (not IRA) from one broker to another by starting an authorization at the receiving broker and nothing else needed. The IRA custodian to custodian transfer should not require more just starting at Vanguard.


The OP is rolling over a 401k, not IRA. Unless the rollover is done at the same institution (Schwab to Schwab), 401k plans typically don't do in-kind transfers, but rather sell everything and distribute in cash. Therefore it will either be a check or a wire.

It sounds like Vanguard didn't train this rep well. The OP will have to try his luck for a better rep.


I have done a employer 401(k) to Vanguard IRA custodian to custodian rollover but perhaps my 401(k) plan was atypical.


Did you transfer securities directly between custodians or did you liquidate your 401k securities and transfer in cash to your new IRA custodian? I believe tfb was talking about directly transferring securities.


I was focused on the OP's question. I don't believe it had anything to do with securities transfer.

Mine was a full liquidation with funds transferred to Vanguard.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby tfb » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:17 pm

FrugalInvestor wrote:I was focused on the OP's question. I don't believe it had anything to do with securities transfer.

I was replying to this comment by dbr:

dbr wrote:It shouldn't come to a check or a wire transfer.

If it doesn't come to a check or a wire transfer, it must be in-kind securities transfer then (or did dbr mean ACH?). In-kind securities transfer is often not possible from a 401k plan unless the money stays at the same institution. A check or a wire transfer is still a custodian-to-custodian transfer when one custodian mails a check or makes a wire transfer to another custodian.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby Default User BR » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:18 am

At MyMegaCorp, the only option for a direct rollover is a check made out to the receiving institution, sent to the employee's address of record. This is for security reasons, according to the plan documents.


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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby MrBrainwash » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:40 pm

I sent an email to Vanguard, which was replied to by Concierge Services, stating that Vanguard will accept a wire transfer for a 401k rollover to a Vanguard IRA. I have not yet done the rollover, but I'm planning to do it soon. I will post an update on how it goes.

Here is the full message from Vanguard:

Thank you for your continued interest in Vanguard.

You can wire assets into an existing Vanguard(R) IRA account by providing
the following information to Schwab:

Wire to:

* FRB ABA 021001088
* HSBC Bank USA
452 5th Avenue
New York, NY 10018-2786

Credit to:

* HSBC account 000112046.
* Vanguard incoming wire account.

In favor of:

* The fund name and number (or "Various funds" if you are investing in more
than one).
* Your account number at Vanguard.
* The name and address listed on your Vanguard account.

You'll receive the current day's trade date in either of these cases:

* You call us by 4 p.m., Eastern time, to let us know about the upcoming
trade and then fund the trade by 6 p.m. that same day.
* We receive the wire in good order by 4 p.m., Eastern time.

Otherwise, your trade date will be the next business day.

Note that money market funds will begin earning dividends on the trade date
only if the request is received (whether by phone or wire) before 10:45
a.m., Eastern time (2 p.m. for Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund).
Otherwise, the wire amount will begin earning dividends on the next
business day.

To avoid any delays with your wire purchase, please contact Vanguard at
888-629-4920 before sending your wire.

If you have any questions, please call Vanguard Concierge Services at
800-414-1742. Specialists are available on business days from 8 a.m. to 8
p.m., Eastern time.


Thanks for all of the replies.
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Re: Rollover 401k to Vanguard IRA via wire transfer?

Postby MrBrainwash » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:17 pm

Here's a final update for posterity:

I called Vanguard Concierge Services and asked them to call Schwab with me to have the 401k assets wired to my Vanguard IRA. They did a conference call with Schwab and provided them with the wiring instructions. There was a bit of consternation when the data entry fields available to the Schwab rep differed slightly from the wiring instructions in front of the Vanguard rep, but we got it squared away.

We called Schwab on Tuesday, and it appears that the wire transfer occurred on Thursday, and by the end of the day on Friday all of the funds were in my Vanguard account. Pretty smooth, and I didn't have to deal with the hassle of having Schwab mail me a check. I think I was only out of the market for 1 day, too.

Thanks for all of the help and advice.
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