Search found 2601 matches

by harikaried
Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:13 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: "Upgrading" a Subaru Forester to a Tesla Model Y?
Replies: 133
Views: 13467

Re: "Upgrading" a Subaru Forester to a Tesla Model Y?

Jeepergeo wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:15 amThe Tesla will save you a bunch on vacations and travel because you won't want to go too far
Is that from personal experience? We replaced a Forester with a Model Y, and we've driven on more and longer trips since getting the Tesla.
by harikaried
Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:28 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America, Mercedes, Nissan (more?) switching to Tesla charg

There will still be plenty of CCS plugs Looks like there will be continued buildout of CCS as stations are added with NACS, so there definitely will be plenty of CCS. Presumably this could also suggest some automakers will continue to build vehicles with CCS instead of NACS. Seven Automakers Unite to Create a Leading High-Powered Charging Network Across North America - Seven major global automakers – BMW Group, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz Group, Stellantis NV – will create an unprecedented new charging network joint venture that will significantly expand access to high-powered charging in North America - Targeting to install at least 30,000 high-powered charge points in urban and highway locations to ensure customers...
by harikaried
Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:12 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Claiming EV tax credit for a family member
Replies: 52
Views: 10655

Re: Claiming EV tax credit for a family member

Do people have a sense that the lease path is better than the multiple owners on title? These basically fall into commercial and personal uses, and the IRS doesn't allow resell for either where for commercial in this case would be when a lease needs to be recharacterized as a sale.
by harikaried
Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:56 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Claiming EV tax credit for a family member
Replies: 52
Views: 10655

Re: Claiming EV tax credit for a family member

I was reminded of this topic from a recent comment on reddit: This guy got a brand new Model 3 in CA for $13,620 before taxes & fees with someone else putting retired parents on the title, and that seems to match up with IRS guidance about multiple owners needing the seller report one owner as the (eligible) taxpayer that will claim the credit. Topic A — Frequently Asked Questions About the Eligibility Rules for the New Clean Vehicle Credit Q11. Can the new clean vehicle credit be split between multiple owners? (added March 31, 2023) Can family member B buy the EV and claim the $7500 credit and turn around and sell the car to the family member A? Could the vehicle be used and co-owned/titled by both "A OR B" without selling? T...
by harikaried
Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:55 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America, Mercedes, Nissan (more?) switching to Tesla charg

Seems like with American, German, Japanese, European/Chinese automakers now switching to NACS, there should be plenty of non-Tesla vehicle options that people thinking about installing chargers should probably not bother with J1772/CCS1?

This should save people money from building out infrastructure optimized for a shrinking population that can use adapters or the existing infrastructure. Most charging happens with the convenience of "slow" chargers, so hopefully this unification with Tesla's connector leads to more availability at apartments, offices or even street parking to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy for an even larger potential audience of EV buyers.
by harikaried
Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:09 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America, Mercedes, Nissan (more?) switching to Tesla charg

I have a Leaf so I do not currently have access to Teslas network of chargers Looks like even with Nissan switching to NACS, Leaf owners with CHAdeMO will still need to do something different. (Somewhat interestingly, existing 3rd party networks with "NACS" actually have a Tesla connector based on CHAdeMO instead of CCS.) Nissan to adopt North American Charging Standard (NACS) for Ariya and future EV models Nissan is the first Japanese automaker to announce future product support for NACS. From 2024, Nissan will make available a NACS charging adapter for Ariya models which are currently equipped with the Combined Charging System 1 (CCS1) for DC fast charging. Starting in 2025, Nissan will begin offering EVs for the U.S. and Canad...
by harikaried
Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:08 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America (and more?) switching to Tesla chargers

Some reason I thought the federal funding also requires some on-site payment interface, so even if NACS is a standard acceptable to the federal government, the current Supercharger setup of just plugging in without handling payment at each station might not allow for funding? My experience with Electrify America is that on-site payment is frequently down, so I end up using the app anyway Seems like I might have been thinking of an earlier proposed regulation from last year that has since been updated with the final rule: Section 680.104 Definitions: Contactless Payment Methods The FHWA received a few comments requesting that the definition of “contactless payment methods” explicitly include payment by mobile application in order to provide...
by harikaried
Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:06 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America, Mercedes-Benz (and more?) switching to Tesla char

In addition to Mercedes-Benz getting access to Superchargers and integrating NACS, they'll be building out their own network of NACS chargers later this year: Mercedes-Benz expands charging options for customers: access to Tesla Supercharger network in North America while building its own High-Power Charging Network Mercedes-Benz will be the first German OEM to implement NACS ports into its new electric vehicles starting in 2025. As part of a phased transition, Mercedes-Benz will initially offer an adapter that enables the company’s existing CCS BEVs to charge seamlessly on the NACS network from 2024 onwards. In addition to ensuring compatibility with an expanded network of existing charging stations, Mercedes-Benz will establish its own Hi...
by harikaried
Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:07 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America (and more?) switching to Tesla chargers

Kentucky seems to have jumped ahead of Texas and Washington by actually requiring Tesla's connector instead of just planning:

Kentucky mandates Tesla's charging plug for state-backed charging stations - Reuters
Reuters wrote:Kentucky is requiring that electric vehicle charging companies include Tesla's plug if they want to be part of a state program to electrify highways using federal dollars, according to documents reviewed by Reuters.
Some reason I thought the federal funding also requires some on-site payment interface, so even if NACS is a standard acceptable to the federal government, the current Supercharger setup of just plugging in without handling payment at each station might not allow for funding?
by harikaried
Sat Jul 01, 2023 11:18 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Tesla Model Y
Replies: 133
Views: 16209

Re: Tesla Model Y

My only concern is driving it long distances. We take a lot of long road trips and since this will be our primary vehicle, I’m not sure how badly it’ll affect our travel time. How have others dealt with this issue? Here's an example route from Los Angeles to Las Vegas with a Model Y 279mi Standard Range: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=163c3458-793a-403e-b8eb-4a235612f1e8 It says 4 hours driving and 27 minutes charging from 26% to 89% in Yermo. Whereas a 330mi Long Range for the same route charges 23% to 54% in 10 minutes at Baker. The main difference in time is charging to higher percentages takes longer especially above 80%. Our primary vehicle is a Model Y Long Range and the kids want to stop every 2 hours anyway, so we charg...
by harikaried
Sat Jul 01, 2023 6:49 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America (and more?) switching to Tesla chargers

If enough manufacturers switch, it's entirely possible the US makes a change and includes NACS in the list of acceptable connectors for the govt dollars. It wouldn't surprise me if basically every car going forward will be NACS that the US govt goes along with the change. The White House does seem to be cognizant that if basically the entire market switches to NACS, only funding CCS would practically be wasting money and not quite reaching their goals. They gave an update a few days ago: Biden-⁠Harris Administration Driving Forward on Convenient, Reliable, Made-in-America National Network of Electric Vehicle Chargers - White House Federally-funded fast chargers are required to include Combined Charging System (CCS) connectors, which are us...
by harikaried
Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:17 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo, Polestar, Electrify America (and more?) switching to Tesla chargers

If/when other providers like Electrify America start adding NACS, they will probably retain CCS backwards compatibility Looks like you were right that NACS will be additional to CCS-1 now with the largest non-Tesla DC Fast Charging network in America: Electrify America to add North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector by 2025 Electrify America will continue to provide the Combined Charging System (CCS-1) connector throughout its network as it transitions to also support automakers adding NACS charging ports. The company will work to offer a NACS connector option at existing and future charging stations by 2025 to make charging as convenient as possible for EV owners. It seems like Volkswagen being the parent company of EA, it's some...
by harikaried
Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:18 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo (and more?) switching to Tesla chargers

So these new car owners may be surprised to find they can only use about half of Tesla's stations Counting by Open Supercharger locations from https://supercharge.info/data, there's 1.2k V3/250kW out of 2.1k total stations in North America. At least globally, the number of Supercharger stations and connectors have grown about 35% annually, so potentially this time next year when existing non-Teslas have access, there might be around 2.8k total stations with about 70% available to non-Teslas. Then in 2025 when these new vehicles are made with NACS, Tesla's network will be 3.8k total and around 80% available. At least so far, Tesla hasn't really upgraded older Supercharger versions probably because existing Tesla drivers could be depending o...
by harikaried
Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:52 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford, GM, Rivian, ChargePoint, Volvo (and more?) switching to Tesla chargers

Various announcements from today including ChargePoint which I believe has the most public level 2 chargers in the US, and it sounds like they might be retrofitting/reconfiguring existing stations to replace J1772 with NACS? ChargePoint Announces Availability of NACS Solutions for New and Existing EV Charging Deployments Enabling Customers to Continue to Serve Any EV in Any Parking Space ChargePoint’s DC line of products, the Express 250 and Express Plus, along with ChargePoint’s home-based AC line of products, the CPF50 and award-winning Home Flex will be sold or can be reconfigured with NACS connector options later this year. Similarly, ChargePoint’s newest commercial and light fleet product, the CP6000 will be sold or can be reconfigured...
by harikaried
Sun Jun 25, 2023 3:15 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Washington joining Texas in requiring both NACS and CCS is because they want both connectors or more that they don't want money wasted on only CCS? Washington state plans to mandate Tesla's charging plug Washington state plans to require electric vehicle charging companies to include Tesla's plug if they want to be part of a state program to electrify highways using federal dollars, an official told Reuters on Thursday. "I’m actually really happy about NACS and how finally automakers are gearing towards one standard. We want to provide access to as many makes and models as possible," said Tonia Buell, alternative fuels program manager at Washington state's Department of Transportation. Buell said the decision is about “future proo...
by harikaried
Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:45 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

zie wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:45 amRivian is coming over to NACS/Tesla connectors as well
Texas also mentioned Rivian switching to NACS when announcing Texas chargers will need to provide NACS to get federal funding:

Tesla wins as Texas requires state-backed charging stations to include its plug - Reuters
Reuters wrote:Texas's decision will put a ton of pressure on other states to adopt Tesla's NACS, said Lew Cox, director of business development at MD7, which helps companies deploy chargers.
by harikaried
Mon Jun 19, 2023 3:49 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

I just watched a You-Tube video that points out (In Brewster, NY) that Superchargers may be placed, with rather short cables, for vehicles with charge ports on the left-rear, i.e. Teslas. https://youtu.be/W-oaVLRH-js Tesla's newest V3 chargers have lighter and more flexible that provide more reach. Possibly they are longer too. You might be thinking of V4 that became operational in April whereas V3 aren't that new anymore introduced in 2019. This article even references the video shared earlier. Here’s the world’s first Tesla V4 Supercharger charging a VW ID Buzz - The Verge The V4 charging stall is taller than previous generations and importantly includes a much longer cable. That means some non-Tesla EVs won’t have to park at odd angles ...
by harikaried
Mon Jun 19, 2023 3:27 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?
Replies: 144
Views: 8731

Re: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?

One advantage of waiting until 2024 is that the current federal credit is not fully refundable (at least that's my understanding) and I don't have $7500 in tax liability but it will become a point-of-sale rebate in 2024 and I should be able to qualify for the full $7500 next year (if I am interpreting things correctly). I think if your 2023 adjusted gross income is over $98k to be $70k taxable income after $28k standard deduction, your tax liability would be $8k. Then you can apply non-refundable $7,500 clean vehicle credit and $500 child tax credit to $0 your total tax then get the remainder $1,500 refundable additional child tax credit. So you could buy a Tesla right now and get the full federal credit if you expect your income to be at ...
by harikaried
Mon Jun 19, 2023 1:13 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

J1772s are, I think, put in because they are relatively cheap to install, not because they are the most useful to Teslas or other EVs Focusing on these slow chargers, presumably the cost difference between J1772 and NACS is basically the station unit as the electrical and other installation costs should be about the same. I would guess the deployment of public J1772 in 2010s was from government programs/incentives picking the "universal" EV standard to install at libraries and courthouses, etc. Tesla currently sells a J1772 wall connector for $550, and a quick search for similar functionality stations brands seem to be more expensive: ChargePoint $700, JuiceBox $650, Autel $600. Tesla's NACS wall connector is now $475 but earlier...
by harikaried
Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:35 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?
Replies: 144
Views: 8731

Re: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?

You can read for yourself the “Transfer of Credit” section here: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:26%20section:30D%20edition:prelim) …especially the “Recapture” section The Recapture section is referring to § 30D(f)(10) Limitation based on modified adjusted gross income where if someone's income is too high, then the transferred credit will need to be repaid. But the scenario we're discussing here is for someone with "too low" of an income tax liability under $7,500 to get the full value. If you are right, then the tax credit is already refundable as of right now. Because that Transfer of Credit section say that it does not alter anything relating to the financial eligibility of the buyer. Is this an indirect proof ...
by harikaried
Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:47 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

I think this is long term the death knell for CSS as well as J-1772 too, eventually I suppose eventually is a long time, but this gets back to one of my original questions of what to install to provide most value going forwards. Looking at Department of Energy's data on deployment of J-1772, there seems to be 116k public ports, so very roughly estimating $2k/port, that's about $232M already spent. And estimating an additional $1k/port to convert to level 2 NACS, is that worthwhile to spend $116M to convert those existing ports vs using that same amount of money to build out say 58k new ports. Maybe for the existing J-1772 ports, there's still some life left with the current fleet of EVs and those with adapters, but maybe looking a few year...
by harikaried
Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:56 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?
Replies: 144
Views: 8731

Re: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?

CletusCaddy wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:01 pmYou can read for yourself the “Transfer of Credit” section here:

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req ... on:prelim)

…especially the “Recapture” section
The Recapture section is referring to § 30D(f)(10) Limitation based on modified adjusted gross income where if someone's income is too high, then the transferred credit will need to be repaid. But the scenario we're discussing here is for someone with "too low" of an income tax liability under $7,500 to get the full value.

That's one of the main reasons for the "Transfer of Credit" to even exist -- making the full credit available to lower income families.
by harikaried
Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:44 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?
Replies: 144
Views: 8731

Re: Should I Replace a Toyota Corolla with a Tesla 3?

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:25 pmWhen I started this thread, I was thinking that I could be eligible for somewhere between $9500 and $22,500 in tax credits
If we're looking at the same state and federal incentives, it should total up to $24,500.

Help buy $15k new Tesla for dad? Gift tax? Incentives?

The Model 3 inventory prices have dropped since I posted that back in April. I see them at $38k now:

https://www.tesla.com/inventory/new/m3?arrangeby=plh
by harikaried
Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:55 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

My 2021 Bolt cannot charge above 40 Amps Level 2, and starts to taper down once DCFC reaches 51% of capacity or so, from a top level of 54KW or so, when the Bolt is at low charge level. The last 15% at DCFC is painfully slow. That slowing down is common for all EVs especially at high state of charge. Here's a comparison of various charge curves from a European charging network Fastned from 2021 : https://i.imgur.com/SruxKAS.png Their data for Bolt (Opel Ampera-e in Europe) shows it dropping from 50kW to less than half of that around 70% and half again at 85%. Indeed, the hardware and software on each vehicle can greatly affect the charging experience. Tesla preconditions the battery to help charge faster. This is partially to help people g...
by harikaried
Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:30 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

This article All Current Ford EV Owners Will Get Tesla NACS Adapter - Ford Authority makes it sound like there's a free adapter for current and upcoming Ford owners It's a big difference if the adapter can support level 3 charging or not. The article you quoted implies the adapter is level 3 capable. Oh indeed, if Ford/GM only provide a level 2 adapter, it would be very misleading in the context of these vehicles getting access to Tesla Superchargers. The physical hardware for level 3 DC fast charging from NACS plug to CCS port already exists with Tesla's Magic Dock: https://i.imgur.com/UC5qZeH.jpg That's a screenshot of a video from few months ago (Charging a non-Tesla at a Tesla Supercharger! Auto Focus / Marques Brownlee) when it was fi...
by harikaried
Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:37 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

If Ford and GM just pass out level 2 compatible adapters there will be a lot of unhappy EV buyers I'm a bit confused about which aspect would result in unhappy EV buyers? Are you referring to existing owners or upcoming owners before the NACS switch or the future owners? And are these buyers of Ford/GM or Tesla or other EVs? This article All Current Ford EV Owners Will Get Tesla NACS Adapter - Ford Authority makes it sound like there's a free adapter for current and upcoming Ford owners: “ We’re going to ship an adapter to everyone who’s bought a Ford EV ,” Farley said. “This is not just for the future, it’s for all the people who already bought our vehicles. So they’ll get an adapter from Ford, they go on FordPass, they pick the payment o...
by harikaried
Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:33 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

It is completely baffling to me that there is not (in my experience) a charging station with a simple, 1-action, RFID tap-to-pay option Chargepoint does this, and the service wraps over (finally!) to a few other vendors, too Is this on the charging network side, e.g., multiple networks sharing a payment method, or is it from the automaker side, e.g., Ford working with networks so their vehicles can access multiple without separate apps? Part of the "hassle" for even a tap-to-pay is that it's still 2 actions when compared to Tesla's approach of just-plug-in. I believe both Ford and GM announcements include that Supercharger experience, but presumably that requires coordination with Tesla as a charge point operator. So more general...
by harikaried
Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:29 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

CharIN Response to Ford Announcement to use the NACS Proprietary Network CharIN is a voluntary membership organization to coordinate and promote the CCS standard world wide Looks like 10 days after their original response, CharIN Stands Behind CCS and MCS, but also supports the standardization of Tesla NACS . Probably helps that NACS uses the same software protocols to enable CCS functionality, so the main difference is the hardware connector shape. It does seem likely this will stay within North America matching its name due to 3-phase compatibility, but for those building out infrastructure in the US, I don't think that difference matters in most situations here? Although for us, I believe the electrical at work is actually 3-phase, but ...
by harikaried
Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:54 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Although have existing 3rd party networks not focused on NACS because they didn't want to compete directly with Tesla? What is Tesla's share of the charging station market today - percent of total stations available U.S. Department of Energy - Alternative Fuels Data Center - Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations Filtering for DC Fast with any connector and any network shows 35,240 ports while filtering for only Tesla Superchargers shows 21,182, so 60.1%. Filtering for DC Fast with Tesla/NACS connector for any network shows 21,217 ports, so Tesla is 99.8%. Alternatively, looking at locations instead of ports shows 8,973 DC Fast (including Tesla) vs Tesla's 1,980 for 22% share. This also shows Tesla on average has ~11 stalls/station wh...
by harikaried
Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:37 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

The current CCS-to-NAS adapters only allow level 2 charging Just making sure, you're referring to an adapter like this that allows charging say a Chevy Bolt with a Tesla home charger? Lectron - Tesla to J1772 EV Charger Adapter for J1772 Electric Vehicle - Best Buy As opposed to say this adapter that allows charging a Tesla from relatively common slow chargers? Lectron - J1772 to Tesla EV Adapter Charger for Tesla Electric Vehicle - Best Buy Tesla owners already have level 3 capable NACS-to-CCS adapters This would be an adapter like this allowing a Tesla to charge from 3rd party charging networks that have CCS plugs: Lectron - CCS to Tesla Electric Vehicle (EV) Charger Adapter for Tesla Electric Vehicles - Best Buy None of these existing a...
by harikaried
Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:41 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Big Dog wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:07 amIf I was Ford/GM I would insist on some sort of longer-term deal to at least cover cars produced under this agreement
To be clear, new Ford/GM vehicles will have NACS ports as well as get access to Tesla's Superchargers. But even if Tesla cut off access, there's other charging networks / charge point operators that presumably would build out NACS.

Although have existing 3rd party networks not focused on NACS because they didn't want to compete directly with Tesla? And will that similar reasoning be that Tesla Superchargers supporting Ford/GM means those vehicles will prefer Superchargers for their reliability and ubiquity?
by harikaried
Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:29 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

this is really an adapter issue, kind of like the USB world Is that all? If so, it doesn't seem like a big issue/investment, merely a minor annoyance. It seems merely a minor annoyance even more so if you are mostly charging at home and not charging on the road where you have to figure out the adapter and how to pay. I was thinking a bit more about this USB comparison, and it might be quite accurate. Even though many of our devices are now using USB-C ports, the various cables/plugs result in a mix of fast charging vs regular charging vs slow charging vs no charging when using adapters. Presumably vehicle software will be smart enough to allow finding compatible chargers, but just like USB, even if you see a plug that fits your device/vehi...
by harikaried
Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:00 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

I would certainly have a lot more confidence in road tripping my relatively short-range EV if I could use the Supercharger network! I'm trying to figure out which stalls will actually be available for this road tripping example, and it seems like maybe this website should have the data? https://supercharge.info/data Filtering for North America Superchargers, I get 22k stalls, and of those, 13k are "V3" with 250kW peak power. This would suggest about 9k stalls are using older hardware and presumably compatible only with Tesla vehicles, and these are the ones originally built out for long-range trips. Filtering to just USA 250kW with at least 8 stalls does find 12k stalls matching up with the numbers from Ford and GM, so anybody kn...
by harikaried
Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:39 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

mrb09 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:38 pmSince the underlying signal protocol is the same between Tesla/CCS for AC/DC, this is really an adapter issue
I believe both Ford and GM have mentioned Tesla opening up "only" 12,000 Tesla Superchargers instead of all the ones available in US/Canada because this smaller set has newer hardware to support CCS protocol with Power Line Communication. So even with an adapter, it won't necessarily work on any Tesla plug.

Does anybody know how this affects existing 3rd party charging networks that have Tesla plugs or home/work charging with existing Tesla wall chargers or even mobile connector? Will an adapter just work for CCS vehicles?
by harikaried
Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:16 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Do these charging stations gather any data that is any different than what may be gathered at a gas pump (e.g. credit card #)? It will probably depend on the integration from the manufacturer and Tesla for using Superchargers. For example, Ford and GM vehicles using the adapter soon or directly with NACS will likely have integrated billing where you just plug in and get charged. On top of that, the vehicles will probably integrate Supercharger availability for automatic navigation, and Tesla's implemention takes into account expected vehicle charge level and congestion. Even without manufacturer agreement and integration, it could be similar to Magic Dock where the driver installs a mobile app that will require a credit card. And this is j...
by harikaried
Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:09 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Is that all? If so, it doesn't seem like a big issue/investment For those building out infrastructure, it's a pretty big investment. I believe GM originally planned to spend almost a billion in charging infrastructure, and their CEO Mary Barra said they can save up to $400 million with this partnership with Tesla. GM embraces Tesla's EV charging system, Wall Street cheers - Reuters The alliance among the three leading rival U.S. EV manufacturers has significant commercial and public policy implications. GM could save $400 million from the agreement, Barra told CNBC in an interview Thursday. "This is pretty huge," Consumer Reports senior policy analyst Chris Harto said. "I could see this being kind of a snowball effect of mor...
by harikaried
Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:46 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Without the built in stuff, you drive up, open your Tesla phone app and poke and prod the charger to charge while setting up the adapter and plugging everything in Is this what you think the experience for Ford and GM vehicles will be or some other existing behavior? At least in the US, I believe non-Teslas charging at eligible Superchargers don't need to set up any adapter, but there is a step of activating it from your phone. Potentially the Ford and GM adapter won't require interacting with a phone? Because this is how it works now. Some Tesla charging stations have a CCS1 adapter attached to the charging station, so you don't have to already own one. Okay, I wasn't sure because you mentioned "setting up the adapter" as these ...
by harikaried
Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:53 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

zie wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:01 pmWithout the built in stuff, you drive up, open your Tesla phone app and poke and prod the charger to charge while setting up the adapter and plugging everything in
Is this what you think the experience for Ford and GM vehicles will be or some other existing behavior? At least in the US, I believe non-Teslas charging at eligible Superchargers don't need to set up any adapter, but there is a step of activating it from your phone.

Potentially the Ford and GM adapter won't require interacting with a phone?
by harikaried
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

So to you experts. Should someone considering buying a Ford or Chevrolet EV wait untill the Tesla port is in the new models, 2024 or 2025? Not an expert, but if you are mostly charging at home, this is a much less important issue, I would think. But even charging at home, what plug to install will matter to some degree and why I started this discussion in the first place. Getting a CCS port vehicle today and installing a Tesla/NACS charger with an attached adapter for CCS could be practical for regular usage at home without much additional hassle. Otherwise, future vehicles or homeowner will need to deal with outdated hardware. A potential concern of not buying a vehicle with NACS is that charging stations will build out mostly NACS going ...
by harikaried
Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:10 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford and GM EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Looks like General Motors is joining the NACS party! General Motors Doubles Down on Commitment to a Unified Charging Standard and Expands Charging Access to Tesla Supercharger Network General Motors Co. announced today a collaboration with Tesla to integrate the North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector design into its EVs beginning in 2025. Additionally, the collaboration will expand access to charging for GM EV drivers at 12,000 Tesla Superchargers, and growing, throughout North America. The Tesla Supercharger Network will be open to GM EV drivers starting in 2024 and will initially require the use of an adapter. Beginning in 2025, the first GM EVs will be built with a NACS inlet for direct access to Tesla Superchargers without an...
by harikaried
Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:45 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Selfishly, as a non-Tesla, I'd prefer a J1772 connector, but a J1772->Tesla or Tesla->J1772 adapter is $100-$150 bucks I tried leaving our J1772 -> Tesla adapter at a movie theater parking lot with 12 J1772 charging spots because I've only seen at most 4 EVs charging there and only Teslas, so I figured it would be more convenient for people to not need to hassle with the adapter each time. But sure enough, by the next time we went to watch a movie, it was gone. Fortunately, Tesla's adapter is only $50, and I guess we'll just keep it to ourselves now. Looking at US DOE numbers for Level 2, J1772 is way higher at 113k ports vs Tesla 12k for public chargers. I would expect that to be quite different for private/home more matching the default ...
by harikaried
Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:24 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

Unsurprisingly, CharIN (Charging Interface Initiative association to drive adoption of CCS) is highlighting that CCS is a global standard while Ford switching to NACS has "negative impact on the handling of charging equipment." But CCS isn't actually the standard used in every region and has its own "handling" issues. CharIN Response to Ford Announcement to use the NACS Proprietary Network Although their numbers for North America connectors 22,262 CCS vs 22,128 Tesla showing basically even deployment don't match up with US Department of Energy's Alternative Fuels Data Center DC Fast EVSE port numbers of 15,883 CCS vs 21,133 Tesla for over 30% difference? Is there potential for CharIN to prevent Ford or other automakers f...
by harikaried
Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:00 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

For work, there is a lot more info needed. Often, the cost is running electrical, not the end plug. I’m hesitant to offer an opinion since it’s not clear whether you are talking about two plugs in a workshop office or a row of 30 plugs in a commercial building. Also, unclear on your local users. Work chargers tend to be charge point j1772s and is appropriate for diversity. I've thought about installing a couple Tesla chargers for an office parking lot for 20 vehicles where currently maybe 20% of regular vehicles are Teslas with maybe 1 not-Tesla EV visiting a week. So in terms of total time an EV is parked, it seems the current snapshot would already point towards NACS? I suppose clearly these vehicles are fine without charging at the offi...
by harikaried
Wed May 31, 2023 4:03 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

My understanding is that internally Tesla switched to CCS signal protocol a while back while keeping their Tesla/NACS physical pins, so adapters back and forth (like the Tesla->CCS magic dock on the Tesla chargers, or the CCS->Tesla adapter Tesla sells to owners) aren't that hard, at least they're not having to change the signal protocol. Oh that's interesting. I would guess Tesla updated vehicle charging software in 2018 so that Europe Model 3s would support CCS plugs ahead of new Europe S/X since mid-2019 not needing a CCS adapter and retrofit. Potentially Tesla vehicles were still using Tesla's protocol for Supercharging, and it might not have been until late 2021 when Superchargers in Netherlands had software updated to handle CCS prot...
by harikaried
Tue May 30, 2023 11:48 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

I had figured that the ship had sailed in terms of other major auto manufacturers adopting NACS because Tesla waited too long to open it up as an alternative to CCS Yeah, it'll be an interesting dynamic now with the top 2 EV makers in the US with more than ⅔ market share are using this standard going forwards. Presumably other automakers will eat into that market share pushing the current leaders under 50% as EVs become the majority of miles driven, but others might also switch especially if NACS is cheaper and the automaker wants to scale to millions of annual EV production. The transition period that Ford and others will need to go through of taking care of existing customers with the old port will probably affect a relatively small numb...
by harikaried
Sun May 28, 2023 9:18 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Re: Ford EVs (and other EVs?) switching to Tesla chargers

billaster wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 7:53 pmThere is $2.5 billion dedicated to installing up to 500,000 public EV chargers, all of which must be CCS
You've mentioned that more than once, but even the former Ford CEO Mark Fields believes Tesla is now eligible for federal funding to build out charging infrastructure with non-proprietary NACS connector?

https://youtu.be/D23nxNhbGL0?t=99
by harikaried
Thu May 25, 2023 6:04 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla
Replies: 178
Views: 31120

Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Toyota, Subaru, VW join Tesla

Ford just announced their EVs will get a CCS-to-Tesla adapter for existing vehicles, but more importantly their future vehicles will use the North American Charging Standard (NACS), which is Tesla officially opening up their connector. Potentially this might lead to all EVs in the US directly plugging into Tesla Supercharger network for Level 3 charging and presumably regular charging for Level 1 and Level 2 at home and businesses. Ford EV Customers To Gain Access to 12,000 Tesla Superchargers; Company to Add North American Charging Standard Port in Future EVs Rebecca Tinucci, Tesla’s senior director of charging infrastructure: “We’ve spent the last 10 years building an industry-leading Charging Network that enables freedom to travel and pr...
by harikaried
Sat May 20, 2023 1:58 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Buying a Tesla
Replies: 101
Views: 8716

Re: Buying a Tesla

I'm just stating that FSDb is not "heads and shoulders" ahead of other automakers' systems For what you can buy today, FSD Beta is definitely heads and shoulders ahead. Our 2018 Model 3 easily has over 50k miles driven on Autopilot, 10k+ on FSD Beta since October 2021, and 1k+ of the recent FSD Beta that handles highways instead of the legacy stack. I've experienced many hour+ drives with no safety disengagements needing me to steer or brake as well as no convenience interventions, e.g., turning on the signal to suggest a lane change or adjusting the set speed. These are non-trivial routes that require a lot of capability: starting from home on a residential street with no road markings turning through intersections taking turns ...
by harikaried
Sat May 20, 2023 1:58 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Buying a Tesla
Replies: 101
Views: 8716

Re: Buying a Tesla

investor_power wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 11:45 amI’m 40 years old, so the compound growth of $65,000 is much more significant than when I’m 65. If the car was $6,500 I would just buy it.
I suppose does that line of thinking extend to if you had 10x assets, $65k would be "just buy it" threshold?
by harikaried
Sat May 20, 2023 11:18 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Buying a Tesla
Replies: 101
Views: 8716

Re: Buying a Tesla

FSDb is obviously really good in a lot of situations, but it isn't consistent enough for Tesla to be able to move towards level 3 certification, where they would have to accept some liability if the system caused a crash an/or killed someone due to an error when being used properly You keep bringing up SAE Level 3 where the automaker takes responsibility and liability maybe because that's what you're interested in, but I'm not sure if that's what OP wants? One way an automaker limits their liability is to restrict where/when the system can be used, e.g., location, time of day, speed, weather, other vehicles. Tesla says their vehicles are "Built for Safety / Protecting every driver, passenger and pedestrian" and Euro NCAP safety r...