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Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention that, not only do my 401(k) funds not show when dividends are paid, they also don't show how many shares/units of stocks and bonds were bought every pay period. These funds totally lack transparency. I'm thinking of rolling them over to a Vanguard IRA upon retirem...
by joer1212
Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:52 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

Hmm the most recent price of VIIIX itself is $173.11 so you don't literally have VIIIX. But I found this fact sheet https://www.retirement.prudential.com/RSO/web/fundsheets/MTALCC.pdf which may be what you have. They say "The Fund invests wholly in the Vanguard Institutional Index Fund Institu...
by joer1212
Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:36 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

I've had this fund for about 2 and a half years, and I've never seen any dividend payments on my statements. The only thing I was able to dig up for this fund from one of my accounts (401(k)) was the following info, which I'm sure is pretty useless: MTA Large Cap Core Index Fund. As of 10/17/2014 P...
by joer1212
Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:14 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

OP, How long have you had this retirement account? Have you seen dividend payments in it before [I'm guessing no]? Do you have access to historical prices for the funds inside your plan? Is there any way you can reveal to us what the price of your fund [VIIIX] was, say, 5 or 10 years ago and also w...
by joer1212
Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:36 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

do you think they could treat VIIIX the same way they treat the other funds, and simply fold the dividend back into the share price somehow without listing it? I just find it hard to believe that such large companies involved in my retirement plans would be ripping me off. No, absolutely no way. Go...
by joer1212
Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:41 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

Shouldn't I at least receive dividends for the VIIIX fund, since it has a ticker symbol? Yes, definitely. BTW ER=0. 0 2%, extremely cheap. https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0854&FundIntExt=INT http://quotes.morningstar.com/fund/VIIIX/f?t=VIIIX Perhaps look at the reported r...
by joer1212
Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:09 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

livesoft wrote:Perhaps look at the reported returns for funds that you are not using?


I probably can't because these funds seem almost proprietary. For example, I can't find info on VIIIX anywhere except with my employer.
by joer1212
Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:12 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

Do your funds have ticker symbols? If not they may be a collective trust. If you do have a ticker symbol and the share price matches the published share price for that fund, I would be concerned that the dividends were not showing up in account. Some do and some don't. The large-cap index fund tick...
by joer1212
Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:04 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

555 wrote:You should be able to tell us the expense ratio. If not, then there's definitely a problem.


The expense ratios are clearly listed for all the funds. My funds' expense ratios range between 0.02% (large-cap index fund) to 0.18% (international [ex U.S.] index fund).
by joer1212
Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:50 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

There possibility does exist that whatever firm runs the plan takes the dividends for themselves. One way to find out the fees is to not contribute to a fund over a quarter and see that its return matches the return of the index or a proxy fund with dividends re-invested. If your dividends were goi...
by joer1212
Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:16 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

555 wrote:Are they "Collective Trust Funds"?


Not sure. How would I know for sure besides calling them?
by joer1212
Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:46 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: Missing Dividend Payment Information

Some funds held in 401(k) style plans don't pay out dividends. Instead they roll the dividends back into the share price. The end result is the same as if they did pay out a dividend since a dividend is just a forced transfer of value. For example, CREF Bond never paid out dividends in my account. ...
by joer1212
Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:36 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Missing Dividend Payment Information

I just logged into my Prudential 401(k)/457 account, and I was surprised to discover that dividend payments on my index funds are not listed anywhere. It only lists fees and expenses in my statements. My friend, who also works for a government agency, can log into his 457(b) account and see every de...
by joer1212
Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:53 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Missing Dividend Payment Information
Replies: 28
Views: 2718

Re: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

For a very simple solution, wait until December each year, and just make one withdrawal per year. Then no advance payment of tax, and you can file almost immediately for a refund. Ralph If I did this, I would have to first transfer the annual lump sum from my 401(k) into a tax-efficient account (st...
by joer1212
Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:25 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

Re: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

...I'm not even sure why there has to be any tax withholding on distributions at all. Why can't the tax simply be figured out at the end of the year? Why should the IRS assume 20% taxes are owed, and then I have to chase them at the end of the year to get my money back? You are aware that we have a...
by joer1212
Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:01 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

Re: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

There appears to be conflicting information about whether or not RMD's are subject to a mandatory 20% federal tax withholding. This says yes (under Are RMDs subject to income tax withholding? ): https://www.americanfunds.com/pdf/editable/rpgegp-001_rmdkt.pdf?ts=1350084631748 This one says 10% (under...
by joer1212
Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:19 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

Re: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

Only rollover distributions have mandatory withholding. Not true, or at least not true when I rolled mine over 20 years ago. Nothing was withheld. Direct rollovers (money sent from the 401(k) to the IRA custodian) have no withholding because they are not taxable. Withdrawals eligible for indirect r...
by joer1212
Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:33 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

Re: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

OP, if your bracket is less than 20%, it can only be 15%, 10% or zero. Are your assets that large that you are worried about lawsuits over the next year having judgments against you? Also, if you remove the money from the 401K you lose whatever protections you are looking to have whether it goes to...
by joer1212
Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:23 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

Re: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

Two things have been fairly constant in what I've read and been told by financial professionals. First, once it's out of your 401(k), the rules governing protection are state based not federal so you need to understand your state's laws. What if your IRA is in a state where it is protected (like NY...
by joer1212
Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:18 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

Re: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

I was curious about the 20% mandatory rule reference in the OP. The only source I could find was an IRS page that states Any taxable distribution paid to a participant that is eligible for rollover is subject to mandatory withholding of 20%, even if the participant indicates that he or she intends ...
by joer1212
Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:12 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding

I need to bring this topic up because it is rarely discussed. Most 401(k) accounts are subject to a mandatory 20% Federal tax withholding when you take distributions upon retirement. For the average retiree, this is bad for the following reasons: (1) Even if you are in a lower tax bracket than 20%, ...
by joer1212
Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:14 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 401(k) 20% Mandatory Tax Withholding
Replies: 24
Views: 2013

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

There are a couple of details the OP should pay attention if 401k or tIRA is large: 1) Attempt to leave a job where the 401k resides at age 55 to take an distribution. Consider a Essentially Equal 401(k) Distributions before age 59.5. 2) Convert as much in the 15% bracket before age 70 to Roth 3) T...
by joer1212
Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:59 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

DonCamillo wrote:I remember planning for retirement using the projections in my Social Security statements in the 1980s. I didn't know that Congress was going to reduce my benefits dramatically by changing the retirement age, changing the COLA formula, and making 85% of my benefits taxable.


+1
by joer1212
Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:50 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

You defer as much as you can and pay low taxes while working. Then you retire early and pay no taxes on Roth conversions. Then when you start receiving SS, you pay no taxes because by that time you only have Roth IRAs. With such a strategy, you will come no where close to paying ACA tax on investme...
by joer1212
Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:41 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

Makes sense under normal circumstances. However, I was wondering if it would it ever make sense to move money into a LIRP. For example, if you're retired, and you get a windfall, where would you place this money for maximum tax efficiency? Is there something wrong with a tax-exempt bond fund? If yo...
by joer1212
Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:57 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

I plan on taking Social Security at age 62 (as well as my pension). This means that I will only have to cover 10 years of my retirement using exclusively my own funds (age 52-62). However, by age 70 1/2 (assuming the law remains the same), I will be required to withdraw 3.65% annually from my tax-d...
by joer1212
Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:30 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

Although I didn't mention the book or author by name (we're actually kind of related), I reviewed this concept recently on the blog: http://whitecoatinvestor.com/is-a-zero-percent-tax-bracket-in-retirement-a-good-idea/ I did a little research on my own right after reading this book (and before post...
by joer1212
Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:44 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

Joe, regarding your own scenario, you look like the perfect candidate for traditional 401(k) contributions, not Roth. If you retire early at age 52, you'll have 18 (!) years before Social Security (assuming you start at age 70) and RMD during which you can do Roth conversions at no/low taxes due to...
by joer1212
Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:22 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

Yawn. Follow the money. This book is a veiled advertisement for the author's insurance products. It's all a setup to strike fear in people so they'll buy his garbage. Just read this below from an insurance industry website. It's a pitch to insurance sales people to sign up for David McKnight's prog...
by joer1212
Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:51 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: The Power of Zero: Controversial New Book About Taxes

I can already see one other very obvious flaw in his plan: whatever he tells you to do to eliminate taxes may be itself eliminated by changes in tax laws. And I agree that the sales pitch for life insurance is very suspect as well. The author admits this is possible, but says that it's more likely ...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:03 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]

I just finished reading The Power Of Zero by David McKnight. The author makes a compelling, though somewhat controversial, case for being in the 0% tax bracket upon retirement. He claims that taxes are likely to skyrocket by the early 2020's because of government shortfalls, and that now is a good t...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:56 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Power of Zero: [Book and tax planning for retirement]
Replies: 52
Views: 5710

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

New guy here... It sounds like the OP is just looking for a nudge of confidence before pulling the trigger, so here's mine! I bought VGPMX in June, mostly because of its volatility. I abide by the 10% of my assets in play money rule and count VGPMX within that. The rest of the 10% is just a few ind...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:47 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

One last thing, guys. I've noticed that VGPMX has become much more volatile since about the year 2000, which roughly corresponds to when Vanguard changed this fund to include base metals. One of the most common criticisms of VGPMX is that is has gone through very long periods of underperformance, bu...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:14 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

VGPMX is not an investment, it is a trade, IMO. If you feel you are a skilled trader, go for it and see what happens. Regards, Paul. The only thing that worries me about VGPMX is its long periods of underperformance. The volatility doesn't bother me, in fact, I actually embrace it. This fund is pro...
by joer1212
Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:16 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

Here's a question I asked wbern on another thread (one that he started on commodities funds) recently regarding his thoughts on precious metal equities, and his reply Jeffy: Good point; the precious metals producers were the worst of the lot, and they actually did a little worse than PCRIX [PIMCO C...
by joer1212
Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:18 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

Stonebr wrote:I'd buy low, sell low. Or buy high sell, low. Or buy low and hold low and get bored.


Can you clarify? We you not rebalancing (sell high; buy low)?
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:15 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

Allan Roth had a article on his moneywatch blog several months ago about Vanguard's fund. If my memory is, he owns it, it is a relatively small part of his portfolio, you have to make a very long term commitment and that Vanguard had done something to the fund sometime in the past that made it less...
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:32 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

You have accurately summarized the facts: extremely volatile, requires close attention, long stretches of disappointment, and gives lots of rebalancing opportunities. We held this fund for 7 1/2 years, made some money rebalancing in and out of the fund, and finally dropped it just to avoid the extr...
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:32 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

Does anyone know the correlation between VGPMX (Vanguard Precious Metals & Mining), VGSIX (Vanguard REITs), and VIPSX (Vanguard TIPS)? I ask this because I would only be able to rebalance between these 3 funds, since they are all in my Roth IRA. I would not be able to rebalance VGPMX with total ...
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:56 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

If you look at the following graph, you will notice an interesting phenomenon about VGPMX. Since about the year 2000, it has behaved differently than it did in prior decades. Since about 2000, it has become much more volatile. Of course, I don't know if this trend will persist going forward, but if ...
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:47 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

Not sure how to say this tactfully. Not intended as criticism. Have you ask yourself why you want more than what the broad indexes deliver? If you saved only a few more percent of your income, you would have more return than 5% in PM will pay to you. I slice and dice, I own GLD, and I know what my ...
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:37 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

Pros: - VGPMX will allow me to volatility harvest when I rebalance, increasing my total returns, and also expanding my Roth IRA space (VGPMX is very volatile, plus it has a low correlation to REITs & TIPS-- a great rebalancing opportunity!). Cons: - VGPMX may require constant monitoring because...
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:23 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

Clearly_Irrational wrote:It doesn't, unless you enjoy uncompensated sector risk.


My thoughts at first as well, until I read the first study.
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:17 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio

I have a small allocation to GDX. This is based on reading Bernstein’s thoughts about precious metals and mining holdings. I think you will get mixed recommendations on this forum regarding the utility of holding miners, but most will be negative about mining stocks. Most are probably tired of disc...
by joer1212
Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:15 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?

I am aware that this topic has been discussed here before, but no consensus ever seems to be reached about whether or not adding a precious metals & mining fund is beneficial to one's portfolio. I have been considering adding VGPMX (Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund) to my portfolio for a...
by joer1212
Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:58 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does a Precious Metals & Mining Fund Improve a Portfolio?
Replies: 29
Views: 3353

Re: Thoughts on adding Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining F

What are your thoughts on the benefits/disadvantages of holding Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund in an otherwise diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds? Say 3-5% AA. I was thinking about it after reading an article about Ron Paul's portfolio which is apparently mostly mining stocks. He h...
by joer1212
Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:32 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Thoughts on adding Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund
Replies: 44
Views: 8987

Re: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Wort

If you nonetheless want you focus on relatively minor details: You only get a rebalancing bonus in specific situations which may or may not occur. You focus on buying large amounts of cheap stock during a down market, but ignore buying small amounts of expensive stock during an up market. I am taki...
by joer1212
Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:01 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Worth?
Replies: 21
Views: 1486

Re: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Wort

mhc wrote:OP,

sounds like a retirement calculator would be better. They have the monte carlo simulator and account for additional investments each year. Fidelity's and firecalc.com are the two I prefer.


Thanks, I will try it.
by joer1212
Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:41 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Worth?
Replies: 21
Views: 1486

Re: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Wort

It also doesn't factor in that you are buying overpriced shares during the bull market. And yeah you don't get the rebonusing bonus or penalty either. But none of that matters. The problem with compound calculators is that you have no way of giving it an accurate rate for the next 8 years. 7% might...
by joer1212
Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:36 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Worth?
Replies: 21
Views: 1486

Re: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Wort

You are absolutely right, this would be a very simple model that could not account for any bear market from now until 2022. But then, how can you tell there will be a bear market in this time frame? And even if there is one (or more than one), how would you know it will be over by the time you reti...
by joer1212
Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:21 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are Compound Calculators Accurate Predictors of Net Worth?
Replies: 21
Views: 1486
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