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The amount they keep in non bonds/treasuries is likely small. Lets take the mutuals as an example. You know the companies where profits supposedly get returned to policy owners. The last few years has been great for the stock market. Did the mutuals increase or even stabilize their dividends. No the...

terminating doesnt need to assume you have other tax advantaged accounts. In your situation however if one did surrender the policy and was investing the money, they wouldnt necessarily turn around and put this money into bonds within a taxable account. What would make better sense is to understand ...

i dont think the bump is shameless....

im not sure many have the expertise you are looking for.

Most people have analyzed these well enough to know they dont want them and thus im not sure that those who do have the expertise have the desire.

None the less, i commend you for your hard work.

There really arent state guarantee funds... The state guarantee associations primarily work with other insurance companies to take over these contracts at least up to the limits. Neither the state nor the fed govt is on the hook for the money. Its a safety net of sorts but not insurance. Thanks for...

it depends on the state if its per contract/company or in total. Doing so would reduce the risk of any one insurance company sinking you but in a widespread problem, likely isnt as helpful. The reasons not to spread it out over a couple of companies are primarily cost. There is also typically some b...

There really arent state guarantee funds... The state guarantee associations primarily work with other insurance companies to take over these contracts at least up to the limits. Neither the state nor the fed govt is on the hook for the money. Its a safety net of sorts but not insurance. On a thread...

Also I realize that a bond fund would have earned more, although looking at the F fund in my TSP by not too much in the past 3 years. But doesn't it carry a little more risk. I know that the funds in the policy isn't zero risk but I see it as being lower than owning the bond funds directly. This is...

thanks for the link. i just briefly reviewed some of it. DSHIBB did the best job in that thread in my opinion and id post an update there as well. He will probably chime in with his thoughts. Just as a reminder, im not an insurance agent nor in the financial industry. Sometimes people here forget th...

i dont remember the thread off the top of my head. maybe you can link it so we can see the previous discussion.

i use utah likely for the same reasons you started (low fee option) and see no reason to change.

How much would you pay for $133,446 payable maybe 45 years for now? Probably not much. I don't know, with 30-year T-Bills paying 3.17%, I think I'd be willing to pay $700 a year to get a return of $133,446 in 45 years, if that's really what it takes to keep the policy in force. you are close... its...

i was looking around for the list of fee only insurance agents.
http://www.glenndaily.com/links.htm

Glenn Daily is one who at least on his site has some legit information and not just propaganda and obviously the link is from his site.

I have no experience with any of them.

i wish you the best of luck. i cant say i agree with your choice and im anticipating that you will later on start a negative thread about how some hospital ruined your credit inappropriately.

Find a professional that has dealt with this situation in the past, they should know all the right questions to ask the insurance company, then let them present their findings to you. You might contact Jim Hunt and ask if he can help, $100 would be a cheap price to pay for correct information, I wo...

You can't be admitted without it.
Again this isn't Burger King.

Same thing as any other unpaid bill. Ruin your credit and likely still collect.

No it doesn't earn 8% interest.

For me it was the insurance industry. I was being abused and once I realized what was going on, it put me on a search for the best strategy. It isn't intuitive that professionals under perform indexing when including costs.

you should use the search feature. this has been talked about time and time again. If you have more specific questions after looking this over then id repost them.

Tell the FP doctor to drop it or you will sue for harassment. that wont work additionally it isnt the physician who is likely billing them. I wouldnt be surprised if the physician isnt even aware of the issue. Id consider writing a nice letter and explain your concerns to the billing dept and why y...

With whole life, the premium is level and with all the ULs the premium is "flexible". Now the OP actually has a single premium policy but yes the premium remains level in whole life. Thus you are "over paying" for insurance earlier on and "under paying" later in life. ...

The question becomes is that 700 or whatever guaranteed to keep the policy a float until death. Lets for a moment pretend it is based off the guaranteed collumn. If so and the OP lives another 60 years then thats 42k in today's dollars. At that point its much easier to stomach the 700 payments and ...

I've read it all. OP, I know one hates paying taxes in big hits. It so disturbs me that when you hear talks about whole life they always talk about the loans literally for free but never talk about the tax liability that will come one day. If you make 80K and take the 200 or so one time hit, you ma...

Appreciate the feed back and the scenarios to consider. Will take that into consideration. Did someone say my tax liability would go up by about $500 annually? I think that was me; see posting above. I may be wrong, but I think you're a lot deeper than you think and digging deeper at a faster rate ...

The OP has already indicated that he doesnt have the resources to easily pay off this loan. If he isnt guaranteed that he can keep this a float at 700 or so dollars per year then he could easily be throwing more good money after bad. The situation they are talking about in that article is when you h...

of course he has evidence. dividends have been dropping for almost two decades. The insurance company must be replenishing their bonds/treasuries with ones currently available. you will notice that article doesnt say anything about keeping a whole life policy in place that is completely stripped of ...

i disagree about that conclusion regarding whole life. Many many agents like to pretend you can pay for items with whole life tax free. They dont highlight the issues of costs of loans or what happens if you dont pay the loans back. In todays environment of decreasing dividends and people living lon...

No the house has a lot more value. In this situation, it would be like a mortgage on a home that has been stripped of all value which is what the loan does(not necessarily appreciating in value) but in a non recourse state. Forgetting the ethics for a moment, just better to walk away. When you cons...

something to think about in regards to non can

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/is-noncanc ... -worth-it/

id get a quote from standard as well. id ask about association discounts with all the cariers you mentioned.

You dont seem to get that the bleed will stop even if he doesnt pay off the loan. It isnt like a cc or car loan. It will stop only if the policy is forced to be surrendered. Maybe it isn't like a CC or car loan with recourse but it's like a home mortgage. The bleed will stop even if you don't pay o...

i dont think thats a stupid question but i imagine when he became 18 or whatever they made him the owner of the policy. If he isnt the owner currently then his father would be on the hook for the tax problem assuming his father is the owner.

Financially I'm not ever going to be able to pay off a $220k loan balance You don't have to pay it completely off. Every dollar that goes in to pay it down will be helpful. Thus he would need to come up with a plan of slowly paying off this loan so the balance doesnt keep on going up. That's what I...

I doubt they will take it with this spread.

It also only defers taxes and not eliminates them.

The only reason we would consider paying it back is bc of the way WL is taxed on gains otherwise everyone would tell him to just surrender. I don't know. Gains or no gains, the policy is still earning 7.63% before loan interest and insurance charges. Why would everyone necessarily tell him to just ...

He isnt reducing cost. He doesnt actually have to pay back the loan as i explained. The only reason we would consider paying it back is bc of the way WL is taxed on gains otherwise everyone would tell him to just surrender.

You could try a loan rescue policy, but it can be complicated, won't be cheap, and depends on your current health since you would be buying a new policy. Don't know if it would work with such a huge loan balance. i dont get why that would help. like you mentioned it would be a new policy and thus a...

When you take a loan, you are taking a loan from the insurance company general funds and using the policy as collateral. If you give me 100k and then take a loan from me for 90k with a little over 10% interest and then pay me back another 100k did you get an instant 10% return? Of course not. Payin...

You could try a loan rescue policy, but it can be complicated, won't be cheap, and depends on your current health since you would be buying a new policy. Don't know if it would work with such a huge loan balance. i dont get why that would help. like you mentioned it would be a new policy and thus a...

Investigate donating your WL life policy to a not-for-profit or charity. Check out this possibility with your life agent, tax advisor or estate lawyer. No organization wants a stripped WL policy. Is that $12,000? I know any number of small organizations that would love to have $12,000. you are prob...

That isn't a return of 6-8%. Kindly explain why? The OP wrote the account has been both accruing interest (last year accrued interest was 7.63%) but also being charged interest on the loan amount. (Says The credited interest rate on loaned amounts is 8% if only the earned interest is borrowed. On a...

I would sit down with a tax accountant and hear his opinion. The policy had all those gains, but the loan had also those interest expenses, but I am no expert. This is a terrible situation to be in. On the other hand, it financed college education. Good luck! The interest doesn't affect the tax sit...

HardKnocker wrote:Investigate donating your WL life policy to a not-for-profit or charity.

Check out this possibility with your life agent, tax advisor or estate lawyer.

No organization wants a stripped WL policy.

That isn't a return of 6-8%.

I'm ignorant about Whole Life, but do I understand that the interest (accumulation) it earns is not taxed until the person dies or cashes the policy out or it defaults? yes but it is going to crash at current pace at which point he gets nothing but a tax bill. you have to love how they charge such ...

livesoft wrote:Maybe he paid $300,000 in premiums or more?

if it was a sinlge premium policy then he paid about 40k?

you need to remember they have had his money for 35 years.

If he does that then he has to pay taxes on all gains above premiums paid and at income rates and not the better long term capital gains rates. This is just one of the many reasons why one should avoid whole life. Im sure your dad was talked into this as a great way to build for the future (the agen...

You also can't put it on hold.

Otherwise everyone would put it on hold until their back started to hurt....

maybe im reading too into your post but if your thought process is well im 55 and ill pseudo retire quietly but if i happen to become disabled then ill collect then i bet that doesnt work for reasons posted above especially if you have been unemployed/retired for a long period of time. if your conce...

im not in rads but ive seen plenty of tele-rad performed. Since it isnt an office vist but an interpretation and that the image is easy to transmit electronically, i expect the trend to continue for telerad increasing but it isnt something that will result in the extinction of the specialty. With mo...

Without knowing the community, other partners and the hospital/other competitors (assuming real estate is not included) my guess the practice is worth very little. This news will not be will received by the senior physician. Goodwill is limited unless you are selling to a hospital then your partner...

Again the reason they go after doctors is bc doctors can afford to pay for it. It is a product with very high comissions and it typically pays comisssions for extended periods of time. If im going to make 50% comission on something do i want to make that 50% on a product for someone who makes 80k or...