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Re: Roll Over Old TIAA CREF Account?

Ourbrooks wrote: If nothing else, when you go to cocktail parties, you will be able to honestly say that you keep your investments in the same fund that Janet Yellen and Ben Bernanke use. TIAA Traditional is three percent and a cloud of dust. 10 year treasury yield flirts with 2%, yet TIAA Tradition...
by brick-house
Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:29 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Roll Over Old TIAA CREF Account?
Replies: 15
Views: 793

Re: "The 4% rule and a dynamic retirement spending plan"

Vanguard managed to provide a dramatic example of sequence of return risk. If the Vanguard Managed Payout Funds were launched on March 2009 instead of 2007; then I think they would be hyping these funds instead of letting them wither on the vine. As a couple in our early 40s with kids, we pay for te...
by brick-house
Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:26 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "The 4% rule and a dynamic retirement spending plan"
Replies: 14
Views: 2231

Re: Wade Pfau: Lifecycle Finance

Bobcat2 wrote: It makes perfect sense that TIAA-CREF would be a leader in advancing life-cycle investing. Two of the fathers of life-cycle finance, Paul Samuelson and Robert Merton, were long-time CREF Trustees. TIAA-CREF has an annual award that recognizes an outstanding research publication that c...
by brick-house
Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:06 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Wade Pfau: Lifecycle Finance
Replies: 120
Views: 17063

Re: Wade Pfau: Lifecycle Finance

bobcat2 wrote: I fail to see what financial products are missing that make the above life-cycle retirement plan nonviable. Certainly low interest rates aren't a problem restricted to retirement plans that follow the principles of life-cycle finance. +1 Everything old is new again - seems like this h...
by brick-house
Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:24 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Wade Pfau: Lifecycle Finance
Replies: 120
Views: 17063

Re: Stock investing and the fear of flying

Turbulence.... Judging by fund flow history and the underfunding of many Defined Benefit Pensions - many investors (amateur and professional) make poor decisions (sell low, buy high,) in times of market turbulence.
by brick-house
Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:58 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Stock investing and the fear of flying
Replies: 57
Views: 3914

Re: 5 Ways to Cheat the 4 Percent Withdrawal Rule

article quote: But the 4 percent rule presents a problem for many people. At 4 percent, $1 million produces just $40,000 a year in income. If we could increase our withdrawals to 4.5 or even 5 percent each year, the extra income could go a long way. Here are five potential ways to do just that: Supr...
by brick-house
Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:57 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 5 Ways to Cheat the 4 Percent Withdrawal Rule
Replies: 8
Views: 1712

Re: Moving into TIAA Traditional

levett wrote:

And the TIAA Traditional RA/GRA got bumped UP another 15 basis points yesterday! 3.75%. Not bad in a tax-deferred account.


3.75% and a cloud of dust... TIAA Traditional keeps the chains moving in a low/rising rate environment. :beer
by brick-house
Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:28 am
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Moving into TIAA Traditional
Replies: 24
Views: 1858

Re: Burton Malkiel, Wealthfront CIO

rick ferri wrote: I often wonder why Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity, and other custodians have not created and launched a similar "robo" program. The automated rebalancing and tax-loss harvesting software that drives Wealthfront may be leading edge today, but how far ahead can you go with this...
by brick-house
Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:01 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Burton Malkiel, Wealthfront CIO
Replies: 89
Views: 13608

Re: Burton Malkiel, Wealthfront CIO

rick ferri wrote: Is there something new and revolutionary that Malkiel is suggesting that I'm missing? It all seems so routine to me. If I am missing something, then I must be the one getting old. Passive investing is a routine. Determine your risk level/time frame, build an appropriate asset alloc...
by brick-house
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:54 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Burton Malkiel, Wealthfront CIO
Replies: 89
Views: 13608

Re: Dave Ramsey Defends His Investment Advice

Dave Ramsey's advice helps people clean up debt and get organized. This allows a household to have a clean balance sheet, strong savings rate, and an increasing net worth. This leads to healthy functional financial households. Thus, I understand his following... What I don't understand is that after...
by brick-house
Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:03 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Dave Ramsey Defends His Investment Advice
Replies: 120
Views: 12023

Re: Dave Ramsey Defends His Investment Advice

emerg doc wrote: I don't even have much of a problem with his whole business structure to refer to his ELPs. Most people do need investment advice unfortunately. Most people who need it don't have the assets necessary to hire a fee-only adviser. Nobody is going to work for 1% of a $10K portfolio. Ho...
by brick-house
Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:12 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Dave Ramsey Defends His Investment Advice
Replies: 120
Views: 12023

Re: Surprised at actual marginal tax rate

bob's not my name wrote: You don't have to guess, this is well known. For families with children there essentially is no 25% bracket and their total marginal rate, including federal and state income tax and de facto financial aid tax, is often well over 50% and can be over 100%. This is perverse bec...
by brick-house
Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:47 am
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Surprised at actual marginal tax rate
Replies: 32
Views: 2775

Re: Is the Gold Rally Over

I do not understand the gold market. I view gold as a wild card. Gold has no earnings, dividends, interest to provide a fair value. I do understand how Financial Advisors and Life-cycle Glide-paths completely missed the gold boat in 2000. It would have been tough to market or justify a portfolio wit...
by brick-house
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:35 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is the Gold Rally Over
Replies: 160
Views: 7735

Re: NY Times: Vanguard: "never go public"

kevin21 wrote: As a boglehead, I was doing ok with a $40k salary in DC. Are you raising a family on 40k per year? Tough to do around Valley Forge, PA. I had another part-time job when I worked at Vanguard, as did many of my fellow crew members. As a former low level Vanguard Crew Member of decent te...
by brick-house
Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:39 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: NY Times: Vanguard: "never go public"
Replies: 40
Views: 4625

Re: role of tiaa-cref traditional in portfolio

Good luck getting me to give up the TIAA Traditional in my old employer's GSRA. 3% floor with potential for additional dividends backed by TIAA's General Account. GSRA contracts allow withdrawals and/or transfers - like a money market on steroids... Here is a dated PDF (2010) outlining TIAA Traditio...
by brick-house
Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:45 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: role of tiaa-cref traditional in portfolio
Replies: 16
Views: 1221

Re: NYT: Finding Advice for More Modest Retirement Investmen

Rick Ferri wrote: The difference boils down to service. Are you able to pick up the phone and talk to a real human being whenever you feel the need? You can do that with Rebalance-IRA for 0.50%, not with Wealthfront for 0.25%. We've been able to do it at 0.25% for the past 14 years, but we have a hi...
by brick-house
Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:39 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: NYT: Finding Advice for More Modest Retirement Investments
Replies: 44
Views: 5229

Re: NYT: Finding Advice for More Modest Retirement Investmen

rick ferri wrote: The problem with all these suggestions for free and low cost services is government regulations. It is difficult to stay even and more difficult to earn a decent by profit charging a low fee and complying with SEC and other governing body regs. No firm can offer advice and then tra...
by brick-house
Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:56 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: NYT: Finding Advice for More Modest Retirement Investments
Replies: 44
Views: 5229

Re: NYT: Finding Advice for More Modest Retirement Investmen

hoppy08250 wrote: It's interesting to see all these services popping up, along with Betterment and others. Burton Malkiel ("A Random Walk Down Wall Street") and Charles Ellis ("Winning the Loser's Game") are affiliating themselves with Rebalanace IRA, which puts you in a portfoli...
by brick-house
Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:58 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: NYT: Finding Advice for More Modest Retirement Investments
Replies: 44
Views: 5229

Re: Gus Sauter Worried About "Bond Bubble"

levett wrote: What did Sauter say? (It's irrelevant what I think.) +1 Longer article quote shows Gus Sauter stating a 10 yr expectation 0f 6-9% for stocks and 2-3% for Bonds. Pretty common stock bug outlook. :beer http://bigstory.ap.org/article/vanguard-exec-shares-outlook-fears-bond-bubble Q: We're...
by brick-house
Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:23 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Gus Sauter Worried About "Bond Bubble"
Replies: 20
Views: 3047

Re: Bill Gross (PIMCO) like bonds / 5-yr treasury now

larryswedroe wrote: Brick house 1) My standard prediction is that my crystal ball is always cloudy. I did not make any predictions about commodities as you stated I did 2) There are many with excellent PAST records, Gross among them. Unfortunately that tells us nothing about the future returns. As t...
by brick-house
Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:29 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bill Gross (PIMCO) likes bonds / 5-yr treasury now
Replies: 79
Views: 8185

Re: Bill Gross (PIMCO) like bonds / 5-yr treasury now

larryswedroe wrote: Same guy who dumped them when the 10 year was 380 or so and then it fell by more than half. Who cares what he says? He has no more clue than the proverbial monkey (nor does anyone else) Uhhhh... I do. I also like to hear what you say [rude comment removed by admin LadyGeek] . Ple...
by brick-house
Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:55 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bill Gross (PIMCO) likes bonds / 5-yr treasury now
Replies: 79
Views: 8185

Re: Scott Burns is investing in Gold

umfundi wrote: And so, What is the theory (not the prediction) for the price of gold going forward? :annoyed 2% real interest rates is one theory offered in the second link below by Eddy Elfenbein. If higher than 2%, gold's price falls. If lower than 2%, then gold's price rises. The first link is a ...
by brick-house
Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:18 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Scott Burns is investing in Gold
Replies: 126
Views: 8869

Re: Scott Burns is investing in Gold

Joe s wrote: I think the main point Hazlitt777 was making is not that there was deflation in 1875, but that deflation meant than gold was rising in price. Similarly, in 1917 there was inflation, which meant gold was dropping in price. Gold did fluctuate in real value during the gold standard. There ...
by brick-house
Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:52 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Scott Burns is investing in Gold
Replies: 126
Views: 8869

Re: Scott Burns is investing in Gold

nisiprius wrote: The fact that gold quadrupled in real value during a period of unprecedentedly mild and stable inflation, just as the fact that it halved in real value from 1910 to 1920, show that it does not really behave the way people say it "tends to" behave. And it's not fair to thro...
by brick-house
Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:01 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Scott Burns is investing in Gold
Replies: 126
Views: 8869

Re: Scott Burns is investing in Gold

umfundi wrote: Deflation in 1875 is absolutely irrelevant in today's context. The Fed's actions since 2009 suggest they do not think deflation is irrelevant. Quote from Ben S. Bernanke 2002 speech titled Deflation: Making Sure "It" Doesn't Happen Here http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddoc...
by brick-house
Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:33 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Scott Burns is investing in Gold
Replies: 126
Views: 8869

Re: Scott Burns is investing in Gold

umfundi wrote: I think then the short term (1 year) outlook for stocks is mildly positive. That is not a prediction, but I think that sentiment has some basis. For bonds, pretty flat. For gold, I have no idea. In your words, it is a wild card. In your words, stocks sound like a wild card as well… :?
by brick-house
Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:10 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Scott Burns is investing in Gold
Replies: 126
Views: 8869

Re: Scott Burns is investing in Gold

umfundi wrote: 2. If global economic growth in 2013 is at 2%, with no change in interest rates, what is the short term outlook for gold? What is the short term outlook for stocks? William Bernstein quote from Efficient Frontier article titled The Returns Fairy…Explained http://www.efficientfrontier....
by brick-house
Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:50 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Scott Burns is investing in Gold
Replies: 126
Views: 8869

Re: Scott Burns is investing in Gold

dnamouv wrote:

If gold is not money, as people so often like to point out, how come the world's central banks to continue to be net BUYERS of gold?


According to the Bernank, it is tradition :beer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dj9v9s9buk
by brick-house
Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:27 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Scott Burns is investing in Gold
Replies: 126
Views: 8869

Re: Faltering innovation confronts the six headwinds

fnk wrote: You're no longer necessary. Except the engineers, scientists and managers. We're the elite. And we've got to feed everybody else. Please remember to feed the farmers... :beer bobcat 2 - thanks for the articles and the perspective It's odd than when Vanguard economist Davis puts out an art...
by brick-house
Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:29 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Faltering innovation confronts the six headwinds
Replies: 22
Views: 1782

Re: Excellent Vanguard Article

nisiprius wrote: I hope this curve isn't being factored into Vanguard's mutual fund management. Of course, the nice thing is, with index funds, I'm not sure how it could be. Managed Payout Funds? Quote from Joe Davis speech: Yes, amid all the talk of doom and gloom, I see flickers of light at the en...
by brick-house
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:52 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Excellent Vanguard Article [Joe Davis, Our Economic Future]
Replies: 66
Views: 5720

Re: Buying an Immediate Annuity in a Traditional IRA

Annuity payments count as its own RMD. The remaining balance would then have to have a separate RMD taken. Simple example. Fair warning -I am not a CPA, just another crank on the internet... 12-31-2011 IRA balance is $200,000. On Jan 3, 2012 -100,000 is annuitized - annuity payments are considered t...
by brick-house
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:40 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Buying an Immediate Annuity in a Traditional IRA
Replies: 9
Views: 1600

Re: Buying an Immediate Annuity in a Traditional IRA

My understanding is that any payment stream over ten years cannot be rolled over or deposited back into the account. Quote from IRS Publication 575 http://www.irs.gov/publications/p575/ar02.html#en_US_2011_publink1000226891 Eligible rollover distribution. An eligible rollover distribution is any dis...
by brick-house
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:02 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Buying an Immediate Annuity in a Traditional IRA
Replies: 9
Views: 1600

Re: Four years to grow portfolio 20 percent

Great thread! Reminds me of an article from Michael Kitces about how typical 401k advice leaves folks needing a doubling of their retirement in the last 10 years of accumulation. http://www.kitces.com/blog/archives/76-Is-Save-For-Decades,-Then-Quickly-Double-Your-Money-And-Retire-Your-Unintentional-...
by brick-house
Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:03 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Four years to grow portfolio 20 percent
Replies: 26
Views: 2920

Re: Book Suggestion: Positive Thinking.

Dow 36000. James Glassman & Kevin Hassett :D

http://www.amazon.com/Dow-36-000-Strate ... 0609806998

or listen to Bobby Mcferrin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
by brick-house
Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:55 pm
 
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Book Suggestion: Positive Thinking.
Replies: 23
Views: 2015

Re: "Skating Where the Puck Was"

Browser wrote:

Gee, I thought I answered that. One of us needs to re-read the previous posts. I'm out of bacon-savers.


My bad. I did not catch the bacon amongst the bull... :beer
by brick-house
Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:09 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Skating Where the Puck Was"
Replies: 79
Views: 13602

Re: "Skating Where the Puck Was"

Browser wrote: Unfortunately, it may not be possible to save the bacon if stocks and treasurys head down together. During the last quarter of 2008, the correlation of the monthly returns of Gold and TSM spiked up to 0.8 as they both went down together. As we know, it was the "flight to safety&q...
by brick-house
Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:33 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Skating Where the Puck Was"
Replies: 79
Views: 13602

Re: "Skating Where the Puck Was"

browser wrote Marvelous comments, Dr. B. Now you've gone and made two groups angry with you, I'm afraid: first the Permanent Porfolioers who are counting on gold to save the bacon if interest rates take off and drag down Treasurys and Stocks like the 1970s; and second, those "expert" comme...
by brick-house
Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:56 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Skating Where the Puck Was"
Replies: 79
Views: 13602

Re: Permanent Portfolio Poll

browser wrote: Will the returns of the PP be better than the 5-year Treasury over the next decade? Who knows? However, the past decade has been OK for the PP. Vanguard Intermediate Treasury Fund has returned 5.24% over the past decade (9/30) while PRPFX has returned 10.24%. It's all about the gold G...
by brick-house
Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:10 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Permanent Portfolio Poll
Replies: 222
Views: 22280

Re: Mr. Bogle's suggestions for retirement savings system ch

levett wrote: That's pretty much how it is with those of us who are (or were) in the TIAA-CREF retirement system. +100 - Everything old is new again. This article and the new DFA offering seem to be paying homage to TIAA-CREF. "Old school" TIAA-CREF mixes (25-75% TIAA Traditional , 75-25% ...
by brick-house
Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Mr. Bogle's suggestions for retirement savings system change
Replies: 12
Views: 1568

Re: Perils of Crashing Through Risk Tolerance

Rick, These are two great articles. I really like the flight plan concept/narrative. Most folk's finances are more Airplane than Top Gun and they do not know if they have Clearance, Clarence or the Vector, Victor... A bear market or two exposes risk tolerance in a big way. It also exposes poor finan...
by brick-house
Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:51 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Perils of Crashing Through Risk Tolerance
Replies: 17
Views: 1547

Re: The Flight Path Approach to Age-Based Asset Allocation

Rick Ferri wrote: If you can find a reference, please post it. I've been aound for a long time and have never read an article or study suggesting that young people have anything other than a high equity allocation. Great article. As I read the article, especially the graph on the "flight path&q...
by brick-house
Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:04 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Flight Path Approach to Age-Based Asset Allocation
Replies: 74
Views: 6750

Re: This sure doesn't sound like Stay the Course to me!

azanon wrote: Jeremy Siegel, for instance, suggests that during the storms, you read chapter 1 and 2 again of his book "Stocks for the Long Run" to remind you that not only do stocks produce superior returns to bonds over long-term periods, but they're also less risky, again, when viewed f...
by brick-house
Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:40 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: This sure doesn't sound like Stay the Course to me!
Replies: 32
Views: 3848

Re: Most conservative/defensive portfolio possible

nisiprius wrote: When it really hits the fan, it is not Harry Browne who will offer you his garage to live in. Harry Browne won't offer his garage, neither will Ben Franklin, Peter Bernstein, or Ben Graham. However, Harry Browne's 16 Golden Rules of Financial Safety will keep you in your house and i...
by brick-house
Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:10 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Most conservative/defensive portfolio possible
Replies: 36
Views: 3130

Re: pros and cons of gold

umfundi wrote:

Why not just report the correlation coefficient?


For annual returns from 1964 -2009 per William Bernstein's article Wild About Harry:

Gold had a -0.16 correlation with stocks

http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/0adhoc/harry.htm
by brick-house
Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:16 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: pros and cons of gold
Replies: 84
Views: 6054

Re: pros and cons of gold

Larry Swedroe wrote: I agree that if something does well 5/6 of time it should be considered a pretty good hedge, just as something that has worked about 2/3 of the time has been a somewhat effective hedge (CCF relative to stocks while its 100% with bonds). So that point is valid. article quote: Gol...
by brick-house
Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:16 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: pros and cons of gold
Replies: 84
Views: 6054

Re: forecasting the equity risk premium

Jerry Lee wrote: I'm not so sure people retiring in 2008 consider themselves lucky They should because in March 2009 many 2008 retirees were praying for a "do-over." The quickness and strength of the stock market recovery provided that do-over and kept many 2008 retirees from bailing on th...
by brick-house
Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:50 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: forecasting the equity risk premium
Replies: 60
Views: 3505

Re: forecasting the equity risk premium

jerry lee wrote: Brick-house, good example, as I think we can agree this is one of the most extreme cases of bad luck imaginable (other than retiring in 1929). So I looked at an investor who retires on Jan 1 2008 with $1M needing $40k per year at the end of each year adjusted for that year's CPI--in...
by brick-house
Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:14 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: forecasting the equity risk premium
Replies: 60
Views: 3505

Re: forecasting the equity risk premium

jerry lee wrote: But the most useful way to use this info isn't to vary your allocation from 80/20 to 40/60 (let's say) based on your future forecasts, it's to know: (a) regardless of expected returns, at your given allocation, you should expect X% decline at any point in time (say 25% for a 60/40) ...
by brick-house
Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:50 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: forecasting the equity risk premium
Replies: 60
Views: 3505

Re: NestWise buys Veritat to bring financial planning to mas

Bobk wrote: Here's one by Jason Zweig. Veritat charges a $250 upfront planning fee, plus $40 a month (for a family, $25 for an individual). That includes three initial consultations plus quarterly and annual reviews, all conducted via online video chat. Link to Zweig's column in WSJ. http://online.w...
by brick-house
Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:35 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: NestWise buys Veritat to bring financial planning to masses
Replies: 13
Views: 1754

Re: Even after they explain it, I'm confused

Bpdb wrote: I'll have to admit I'm not as impressed with Rick's answer as everyone else. If the service provider can't help the client with number one and can't stop them from number two, then what are they getting paid for? It sounds like the OP may have a grasp on their tax situation. OP, It soun...
by brick-house
Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:56 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: [Advisor suggests same allocation across account types]
Replies: 33
Views: 4296
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