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Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

I agree on the bond funds that include income in NAV and go ex-dividend either monthly or quarterly. Income would accrue every day and add to NAV although it would not easily be seen especially with normal price changes. Actually, you might see it over time in funds like Northeast Investors Trust N...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:20 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

Regarding the daily accrued dividends, they really had to handle it that way as otherwise a shareholder could be penalized depending on the date of redemption. I don't think so. As I pointed out, other bond funds, specifically some bond ETFs I own or have owned, don't declare dividends daily. As wi...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:35 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: stripped coupon vs. stripped principal pricing anomaly

Couple comments about the abstract, not being able to access the paper... You should be able to access it using the link I provided. Here it is again, with URL visible: www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2000/200042/200042pap.pdf . It was the third paper I linked that requires free JSTOR registration...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:22 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Investigations
Replies: 71
Views: 7092

Re: stripped coupon vs. stripped principal pricing anomaly

On your basic thesis about the better proxy It's not my thesis, it's just my summary the thesis of the paper, which is oversimplified. What I've read so far of the paper is pretty interesting. They point out some of the shortcomings of the two main methods used to estimate the zero-coupon yield cur...
by Kevin M
Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:54 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Investigations
Replies: 71
Views: 7092

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

Electron, I had never looked at the daily accrued dividends before, but I see in my own account how the dividends increase fairly evenly daily as you've pointed out. Incidentally, you can view accrued dividends on weekend days. On entering a weekend date, the date in the calendar box jumps back to p...
by Kevin M
Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:21 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

stripped coupon vs. stripped principal pricing anomaly

In this post on page one of this thread I included a chart that shows that stripped principal zero-coupon bonds (STRIPS) generally have lower yield (higher prices) than stripped interest bonds. The explanation offered for this has been higher liquidity of stripped-principal bonds. Last night I was d...
by Kevin M
Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:50 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Investigations
Replies: 71
Views: 7092

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

:?: What financial statements? This one was from the latest semiannual report for Vanguard high-yield corp bond fund, which is the fund we've been discussing lately. But I've seen the same notes in every other VG bond semiannual/annual report I've looked at, IIRC. Are you looking at Vanguard short ...
by Kevin M
Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:02 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

Note that the coupon payment numbers I showed in my previous reply assumed coupons were paid annually in month of maturity date. I recalculated assuming semi-annual coupon payments, but of course the numbers still came out quite uneven. In the reports, we see these notes in "Notes to Financial ...
by Kevin M
Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:06 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

I assume that bond funds pay their monthly dividends based on the accrued interest of the fund's holdings that month. They are often paying out income that has not actually been paid to the fund as a coupon. Hmm, Based on language in the semiannual reports I assumed it was actual coupon payments pl...
by Kevin M
Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:21 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

[ was referring to your definition of Distribution Yield in that thread. "Distribution yield is determined by dividend distributions (divided by per share price averaged over previous 30 days and annualized), which in turn are determined by net investment income of the fund." Vanguard def...
by Kevin M
Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:22 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

I enjoyed seeing the chart you posted in the Junk Bond Fund NAV thread which really shows the correlation between Distribution Yield, Average Price, and SEC Yield. http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=150342&start=50#p2255347 The definition of Distribution Yield may be a lit...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:58 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: VBS upgrade roll out has started

Emailed my Flagship rep on Friday about this. I'll let you know what he has to say. I predict that he will say the same thing they've been saying all along. That they're migrating the accounts gradually, and they will not tell you when you will be allowed to migrate your account. But will be intere...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:01 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: VBS upgrade roll out has started
Replies: 92
Views: 13188

Re: Yield Curve Investigations

So you could say that in the steady state that the yield curve is flat, i.e. rates are the same across all maturities. In other words, if nothing were to change, we would eventually reach the steady state of a flat yield curve at some equilibrium interest rate. Yes, I think that that the finance wa...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:32 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Investigations
Replies: 71
Views: 7092

Re: TurboTax '14 Deluxe (Desktop) Excludes Schedule D

Patrick, I think you can find that here: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/taxcenter/qdi/turbotax Thanks for the link. Looks like it's only the online version which doesn't meet my needs since I use it year around to estimate the next years taxes and play "what ifs". Vanguard has ...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:01 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: TurboTax '14 Deluxe (Desktop) Excludes Schedule D
Replies: 87
Views: 9298

Re: Yield Curve Investigations

I finally got around to doing something I've been wanting to get to for awhile: using the formula in the FRB paper (referenced up-thread) to calculate the forward n-year yield curves for the next 10 years, using the most recent FRB zero-coupon (spot) yield curve as the starting point. The first char...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:26 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Investigations
Replies: 71
Views: 7092

Re: Yield Curve Investigations

If the attributes of bonds used to construct a yield curve aren't very similar, the resulting yield curve won't be smooth. This is because coupon rate, liquidity, credit quality, etc., affect bond price, and therefore bond yield. Even if we just look at Treasuries, there are enough differences to re...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:30 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Investigations
Replies: 71
Views: 7092

Re: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury over 60 years

We also might as well point out that there is no such thing as a constant maturity treasury treasury (CMT) that you actually can invest in (as far as I know), and most of the funds we invest in did not exist before the mid-1970s. This is just a model to help understand how a direct CD strategy and a...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:03 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury over 60 years
Replies: 6
Views: 1182

Re: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury since 1954

As far as I know (and remember) - there were no such thing as "CDs" until the mid 70's. What is being tracked as "CDs" from 1954 for the following 20 or so years? Also, bank and credit union savings rates were capped by statute and regulation during that time as well - probably ...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:26 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury over 60 years
Replies: 6
Views: 1182

Re: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury since 1954

Looked at some brokered CDs I still have at Fidelity and some 3-month brokered CDs I bought in 2007 to compare to CMT rates. On 5/19/2008 I bought a 10-year CD earning 5%. On that day 10-year CMT rate was 3.83%, so CD premium of 1.17 points. On 8/29/2007 I bought some 3-month CDs earning 5% (or a li...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:04 am
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury over 60 years
Replies: 6
Views: 1182

Re: Question re: transferring Fidelity IRA to Vanguard!

No fee for partial transfers, so if you want to save $50, you could leave a little bit at Fidelity. I've done many partial IRA transfers out of Fido, but still have some there. Although Vanguard has a much broader selection of low-cost funds, Fido has some funds that are very competitive, so unless ...
by Kevin M
Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:32 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Question re: transferring Fidelity IRA to Vanguard!
Replies: 10
Views: 1236

Re: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury since 1954

I don't think your historical assumptions about CD rates relative to Treasuries over the last 60 years are correct. This is a good point, but to clarify, the analysis is not to determine what happened in the past, but to use the longest series of historical interest rates available to model what co...
by Kevin M
Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:55 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury over 60 years
Replies: 6
Views: 1182

5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury over 60 years

I posted some analysis on the relationship between initial yield and subsequent 1-year, 5-year and 10-year returns for a 5-year Constant Maturity Treasury (CMT) in this post: Initial yield and subsequent N-year return . I thought it would be interesting to compare the CMT data to a 5-year CD strateg...
by Kevin M
Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:14 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 5-year CD vs. 5-year Treasury over 60 years
Replies: 6
Views: 1182

Re: CA int municipal bond fund vs. Vanguard int muni fund

As with all investment decisions, it's a tradeoff between expected return and risk. I personally hold both of the California muni funds as well as all of the intermediate term and long-term national municipal bond funds. I used to own only the California funds, but diversified into the National fund...
by Kevin M
Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:58 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: CA int municipal bond fund vs. Vanguard int muni fund
Replies: 32
Views: 2235

Re: TurboTax '14 Deluxe (Desktop) Excludes Schedule D

livesoft wrote:
SpringMan wrote:This is bad news for those that have used Vanguard's free TurboTax offer for TurboTax Deluxe. I think Schedule D is needed by most of us.

Maybe Vanguard then will offer Premiere this year?

vanguard has always offered premiere. For flagship clients it has only been 10 dollars in the past.
by Kevin M
Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:47 pm
 
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: TurboTax '14 Deluxe (Desktop) Excludes Schedule D
Replies: 87
Views: 9298

Re: Importing yields from treasury.gov into Google spreadshe

Just FYI, MB and I independently figured out how to get something working with FRED using ImportXML. I'm playing around with it now to see how flexible it is.

Kevin
by Kevin M
Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:24 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Importing yields from treasury.gov into Google spreadsheet
Replies: 18
Views: 1748

Re: Why Not 100% Treasuries if your Risk is on the Equity Si

However, if the purpose of your bonds is to protect you in worst case scenarios , isn't this why you should be 100% Treasuries? Perhaps, but your chart was for the recent past, and did not include long-term Treasuries, which provided the best portfolio diversification in the last two big stock down...
by Kevin M
Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:03 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Why Not 100% Treasuries if your Risk is on the Equity Side?
Replies: 40
Views: 3729

Re: Importing yields from treasury.gov into Google spreadshe

I case its of interest, the FRED has developed a very powerful api that allows for importing of economic data. I use it routinely to get interest rate data into excel (using vba calls). I actually did take a quick look at it, and even tried to see if I could use ImportXml to load data, but it didn'...
by Kevin M
Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:34 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Importing yields from treasury.gov into Google spreadsheet
Replies: 18
Views: 1748

Initial yield and subsequent N-year return

I showed some analysis of the relationship between initial yield of a 10-year constant maturity treasury (CMT) and subsequent 10-year returns since 1928 in this post: Why are people so down on bonds? (Long-term correlation of 10-return to initial yield) . I thought it would be interesting to do some...
by Kevin M
Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:38 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Initial yield and subsequent N-year return
Replies: 0
Views: 249

Re: Importing yields from treasury.gov into Google spreadshe

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek] why not just pull each of the curves from FRED? http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/ Apparently TheSupperHappy1 posted something that was "off topic" (probably telling me how ignorant I am), but this turns out to be an excellent suggestion. The data...
by Kevin M
Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:51 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Importing yields from treasury.gov into Google spreadsheet
Replies: 18
Views: 1748

Re: Why Not 100% Treasuries if your Risk is on the Equity Si

I know many say they take their risk on the equity side yet their bond allocation includes investment grade corporates either separately or within a fund. Exactly. Very few people actually follow this dictum in the extreme. It's actually close to impossible to follow it unless you have precisely sp...
by Kevin M
Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:39 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Why Not 100% Treasuries if your Risk is on the Equity Side?
Replies: 40
Views: 3729

Re: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds

But I thought the main point of the "market portfolio" is that at the tangent point you don't borrow or lend the riskless asset so you don't have any riskless asset at all as far as CAPM is concerned. In CAPM theory investors agree on everything and are the same in all respects except for...
by Kevin M
Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:45 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds?
Replies: 26
Views: 3058

Re: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds

I actually thought about this the other day. If you use a higher rate for the capital allocation line the line starts higher and has a somewhat lower slope. It therefore is tangent to the efficiency frontier at a higher risk (and return) point. Therefore the market portfolio will have a both higher...
by Kevin M
Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:40 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds?
Replies: 26
Views: 3058

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

I don't know what Vanguard High Yield might see on a day of large redemptions, but suppose it could be 1% of assets. If the redemption was handled using the cash buffer, I believe duration and average maturity would both increase about 1%. That could create a 1% spike in the duration rule of thumb ...
by Kevin M
Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:18 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: Junk bond fund NAVs

We've been discussing the relationship between SEC yield and price of Vanguard High-Yield Corporate bond fund (VWEHX) in this thread: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield (starting at post with some analysis and charts for VWEHX) . Here's a chart I haven't shared yet that's relevant to ...
by Kevin M
Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:41 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Junk bond fund NAVs
Replies: 86
Views: 5504

Re: BND or a CD

But Damodaran has much more data, about 8 decades of data (1928-2008). One observation is that 1950-1980 when interest rates were generally rising, the actual return was less than the initial yield; then 1980-2010 when interest rates were generally falling, actual return was higher than initial yie...
by Kevin M
Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:56 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: BND or a CD
Replies: 119
Views: 9767

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

The hypothetical portfolio example I presented where YTM and duration increased didn't actually need a fund redemption and change in the number of outstanding shares. The portfolio manager could have simply replaced some or all of the money market securities with high yield bonds. He could also hav...
by Kevin M
Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:33 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds

Will you now agree that a riskless asset combined with a portfolio of risky assets is indeed central to CAPM? Whether or not a savings account or CD is a reasonable proxy for a riskless asset is a different discussion. First we should agree on fundamental definitions. We never disagreed. I meant MP...
by Kevin M
Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:47 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds?
Replies: 26
Views: 3058

Long-term correlation of 10-return to initial yield

Recency bias is natural. It might be worthwhile to look at a longer time period to evaluate the correlation of initial yields to subsequent n-year returns. Below are some charts I shared in another thread, but I have since corrected some errors in the yields and returns for some of the more recent y...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:04 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why are people so down on bonds?
Replies: 39
Views: 6126

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

So let's look at quarterly changes and see if we can explain it all! Quarterly changes may not yield much useful information. Not for daily changes between quarters, but for changes from one quarterly reporting date to another we should hopefully be able to figure out if the price/yield relationshi...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:31 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds

One of the key contributions of CAPM was introducing the concept of a riskless asset into the mix! I don't have the textbook. I read Sharpe's book on on CAPM itself. You said: "A riskless security combined with a risky security is not what CAPM is all about." I was simply correcting that ...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:57 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds?
Replies: 26
Views: 3058

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

Consider a bond fund that has 50% of assets in High Yield bonds and 50% of assets in money market instruments earning a very low yield. On a day when all bond prices are unchanged, investors redeem half of the shares in the fund and the portfolio manager decides to sell all the money market securit...
by Kevin M
Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:12 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds

A riskless security combined with a risky security is not what CAPM is all about. It is about correlation of two asset classes. Wrong, wrong wrong!!! Go re-read the chapters on CAPM in your textbooks. MPT per Markowitz was all about the math for expected return, variance (or standard deviation), an...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:14 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds?
Replies: 26
Views: 3058

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

Electron, I think you're still missing the point. By definition, YTM and price are related mathematically, so with the other variables fixed (e.g., coupon rate, term to maturity), you cannot have a change in one without a corresponding change in the other. Similarly, duration is directly related to ...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:03 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: Yield Curve Investigations

This will only be of interest to those who are really deep into yield curve analysis, but for those few who may be interested ... The chart below shows various Treasury yield curves as of 11/04/2014, restricted to a maturity range in which we can actually make out some differences. http://s26.postim...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:35 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Investigations
Replies: 71
Views: 7092

Re: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds

there an arbitrage opportunity? Probably not (unless you're into futures and options) for reasons noted in previous post. Just consider brokered CDs vs. Treasuries of same maturity. Currently there's about a 45 basis point spread for 5-year CDs over 5-year Treasuries (looking at Fidelity fixed inco...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:21 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds?
Replies: 26
Views: 3058

Re: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds

Except you can usually liquidate a HY savings account in 1-3 days. Actually it's even better than that. You can link your HY savings account to Vanguard and do same-day purchases of mutual funds using the linked account. So it's actually less than 1 day! HY Savings is FDIC-insured, so it's backed b...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:12 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why do HY Savings and CD rates dominate short-term bonds?
Replies: 26
Views: 3058

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

So by averaging price over previous 30 days, the focus of the investigation switches from "unexpectedly" large price change relative to SEC-yield change to unexpectedly large SEC yield change relative to price change. But it turns out this is not the case for the particular data shared by...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:24 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield

Now if comparing SEC yield, which is a 30-day average YTM, to price, then yes, for a large, single-day change in price/YTM, we would expect to see a larger change in daily price , since price is not averaged over 30 days but YTM is. I realized that I had not yet shown a chart that shows the large d...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:04 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SEC Yield, YTM, Distribution Yield, Current Yield
Replies: 68
Views: 6998

Re: Why are people so down on bonds?

I assume the expected return on stocks is a constant 10% at any point in time. The ex-post realization will of course differ from 10%, but the ex-ante predictor is a constant 10%. The correlation between PE or PE10 and subsequent 10-year stock returns is something like 40%. The correlation between ...
by Kevin M
Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:52 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why are people so down on bonds?
Replies: 39
Views: 6126

Re: Why are people so down on bonds?

With present yields at 2%, the benefit of bonds is low, hence the optimal portfolio should hold fewer bonds relative to if yields were higher. Saying yields are low is the same as saying that prices are high. But a common position these days is that stocks also are richly valued, e.g., in terms of ...
by Kevin M
Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:42 pm
 
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why are people so down on bonds?
Replies: 39
Views: 6126
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